Jobcentres 'tricking' people out of benefits to cut costs

[taliesin08]

They do free courses in the adult education centres, couldn't she just go there and not have to slum it with the peasants?

[L19red]

Fucking hell, don't get me started on these useless training courses. Can anyone tell me what the point of them is?

 

My girlfriend had to start on one last week in Birkenhead. I say had to, but she doesn't really have to at all (she doesn't even have to sign on, she's not getting any money after all), however she really wants to do an ECDL course and the only way she can do it is by going through one of these training centres where they send all the detritus of society.

 

So last week was the week-long compulsory pre-course thing. What a culture shock for the poor girl! Most of them have criminal records, half of them are illiterate, some of them were just sitting there with their heads in their hands, shaking and moaning. She was crying in the toilets on the first day because she's never been around people like that before, she grew up in rural Cumbria. The girl she was sitting next to had been on anger management for pushing her sister down the stairs. The other day she casually mentioned she'd been raped by two different people. Jesus Christ!

 

And because the ECDL course she's doing (mercifully at another location) is only three days a week, for the other 2 days she has to go there and do jobsearches, which she does at home anyway. So they're going to force her to do a 40 minute round trip for no fucking reason whatsoever and endanger her wellbeing to boot.

 

And this is what genuine jobseekers have to go through just to get a basic computer qualification? How can this be justified on any level?

 

Why cant she buy a book and study at home? why should anyone go through all that shite when they can get the same results or better without it.

This one only costs 1p. Got to be worth doing it yourself rather than relying on the state at that price wouldnt you agree?

 

ECDL: European Computer Driving Licence Teach Yourself: Amazon.co.uk: Moira Stephen: Books

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The Guardian article is a pack of lies.

 

Government admits Jobcentres set targets to take away benefits | Politics | guardian.co.uk

 

"The DWP backtracked and released a statement confirming that the practice had been going on in some offices"

 

"One personal adviser backed up claims that targets led advisers to "set up" claimants. He said: "On the question of tricking customers – it's quite true. You box them in so that they go wrong themselves. The whole system is now orientated to stopping rather than enabling."

 

Hmn.

[Section_31]

Haven't benefits advisors always been under some pressure to get people off them though? To be fair this may have been more the case during the last Tory administration but my uncle always reckoned that you were pretty much considered the enemy if you were claiming dole.

[Strontium]

Government admits Jobcentres set targets to take away benefits | Politics | guardian.co.uk

 

"The DWP backtracked and released a statement confirming that the practice had been going on in some offices"

 

"One personal adviser backed up claims that targets led advisers to "set up" claimants. He said: "On the question of tricking customers – it's quite true. You box them in so that they go wrong themselves. The whole system is now orientated to stopping rather than enabling."

 

Hmn.

 

 

If it was only going on at a handful of Jobcentres, then you can surely excuse Carvalho Diablo for being unaware of it.

 

Certainly the implicit claim in the Guardian article - that this was an edict from government on high - is entirely false. Not sure how the government can be blamed when a few over-zealous bureaucrats go off message.

[VladimirIlyich]

If it was only going on at a handful of Jobcentres, then you can surely excuse Carvalho Diablo for being unaware of it.

 

Certainly the implicit claim in the Guardian article - that this was an edict from government on high - is entirely false. Not sure how the government can be blamed when a few over-zealous bureaucrats go off message.

 

That is one of the most arrogant/naive comments ever made on here and from somebody who either acts like or actually hasnt ever been in that position.

 

Its the classic see no evil and we cant be blamed its not our responsibility for our civil servants behaviour.

 

Thats crap!

[Strontium]

Wait up, how is someone in a department in London supposed to know what office managers in Burnley or Gosforth or Tattershall are doing?

[L19red]

Wait up, how is someone in a department in London supposed to know what office managers in Burnley or Gosforth or Tattershall are doing?

 

they are accountable for what goes on in their department but not responsible for the tasks being performed.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

If it was only going on at a handful of Jobcentres

 

If. </laconic>

 

then you can surely excuse Carvalho Diablo for being unaware of it.

Ah, I wasn't actually blaming him for being unaware. It might have seemed like that, so I apologise if it came out like that, Carv.

 

Certainly the implicit claim in the Guardian article - that this was an edict from government on high - is entirely false. Not sure how the government can be blamed when a few over-zealous bureaucrats go off message.

 

Certainly? Why, because they said so? You've been around the political scene to know exactly what they're like and that nothing like this is 'certain'. You know what these Conservatives think of the oiks claiming benefits. You know that they'll go to almost any lengths to make the sort of cuts to the welfare state that 'Thatcher could only dream of'.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Numero Veinticinco

[MOGLET]

Typical Guardian bollocks...

 

Sanctions of up to 6 months?

 

Forgetting to add that the sanctions are for repeat offenders who fail to comply with the very basic rules of JSA, ie keeping to the JSA agreement of contacting X amount of employers a week, be it by phone news paper or job point searches!

Or for those who fail to turn up for interviews, or who fail to sign on, on time or in fact on the correct day?

 

Or the fact, that the sanctions only stop a percentage of the JSA the signer gets, ie the person doesnt lose all their benefit, just a percentage.

 

Oh, and also the fact that the person who has been sanctioned, is still entitled to claim hardship, or crisis loans as some may know them, while they are under sanction!!!!!!

 

 

As for the bit about, "those who are vulnerable" what a load of shite, those people who have "bad English" get a translation service, at £30 an hour to assist them.

Who pays for that? me and any other fecker who pays tax.

 

Did they mention that all job centres will also soon be employing a signer for the deaf at the expense of the tax payer, as apparently English isnt the first language of deaf people, signing is.

 

Not that I have a problem with that, but why can writing in English not be a more cost effective manner of getting a message across, especially in the days of cut backs we are seeing?

 

 

As to the poor African guy, why is he here signing on? is Africa now part of the EU?

 

I ask, as all EU countries are bound by European law, to allow any member states citizens the right to claim benefits regardless of which country they are in, providing they are within the EU.

 

Which part of the EU is Africa in?

 

On that note, what would we get if we went to Uganda for example, with regards to state benefits? also, how much do you think any of us would get from say, Lithuania if we turned up and asked for a state hand out?

 

Typical Guardian bollocks, you want cut backs, I know where we need to start, and its right here, benefits for nationals, then if there is any left, for other EU bods, after that, go speak to your local dictator.

 

 

But before any of that, chav hunting to be part of the national lottery funded sports program.

 

Pay anyone who brings the head of a chav £50, £100 for rapists heads, £500 for peado heads, and a life peerage for the head of anyone who has anything to do with the S**, and a knighthood for the guy/woman who gets KM bollocks on a platter.

 

Cut the spending on people who dont need to be here, cut the spending on people who dont want to be here, cut the spending on who dont give anything to the country, cut the spending on giving those who come here child benefit for kids that arent even in this country, the list goes on, and then we might not have to worry about the shite this sort of paper puts out, and the crap that this country is in.

 

 

 

Fact

 

Sexual crime (rape, sexual assault) and theft has gone up by 85% in the last 5 years in Kent alone

 

Fact

 

98% of immigrants to the SE are from eastern europe and Africa, in the last 5 years.

 

 

Sadly I live in kent now, so im looking at being out of my normal line of work as competition is getting tighter.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, thought I had best lighten the mood after my rant.

[VladimirIlyich]

Typical Guardian bollocks...

 

Sanctions of up to 6 months?

 

Forgetting to add that the sanctions are for repeat offenders who fail to comply with the very basic rules of JSA, ie keeping to the JSA agreement of contacting X amount of employers a week, be it by phone news paper or job point searches!

Or for those who fail to turn up for interviews, or who fail to sign on, on time or in fact on the correct day?

 

Or the fact, that the sanctions only stop a percentage of the JSA the signer gets, ie the person doesnt lose all their benefit, just a percentage.

 

Oh, and also the fact that the person who has been sanctioned, is still entitled to claim hardship, or crisis loans as some may know them, while they are under sanction!!!!!!

 

 

As for the bit about, "those who are vulnerable" what a load of shite, those people who have "bad English" get a translation service, at £30 an hour to assist them.

Who pays for that? me and any other fecker who pays tax.

 

Did they mention that all job centres will also soon be employing a signer for the deaf at the expense of the tax payer, as apparently English isnt the first language of deaf people, signing is.

 

Not that I have a problem with that, but why can writing in English not be a more cost effective manner of getting a message across, especially in the days of cut backs we are seeing?

 

 

As to the poor African guy, why is he here signing on? is Africa now part of the EU?

 

I ask, as all EU countries are bound by European law, to allow any member states citizens the right to claim benefits regardless of which country they are in, providing they are within the EU.

 

Which part of the EU is Africa in?

 

On that note, what would we get if we went to Uganda for example, with regards to state benefits? also, how much do you think any of us would get from say, Lithuania if we turned up and asked for a state hand out?

 

Typical Guardian bollocks, you want cut backs, I know where we need to start, and its right here, benefits for nationals, then if there is any left, for other EU bods, after that, go speak to your local dictator.

 

 

But before any of that, chav hunting to be part of the national lottery funded sports program.

 

Pay anyone who brings the head of a chav £50, £100 for rapists heads, £500 for peado heads, and a life peerage for the head of anyone who has anything to do with the S**, and a knighthood for the guy/woman who gets KM bollocks on a platter.

 

Cut the spending on people who dont need to be here, cut the spending on people who dont want to be here, cut the spending on who dont give anything to the country, cut the spending on giving those who come here child benefit for kids that arent even in this country, the list goes on, and then we might not have to worry about the shite this sort of paper puts out, and the crap that this country is in.

 

 

 

Fact

 

Sexual crime (rape, sexual assault) and theft has gone up by 85% in the last 5 years in Kent alone

 

Fact

 

98% of immigrants to the SE are from eastern europe and Africa, in the last 5 years.

 

 

Sadly I live in kent now, so im looking at being out of my normal line of work as competition is getting tighter.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, thought I had best lighten the mood after my rant.

 

I take it you read the Daily Mail then.

[dennis tooth]

Fact

 

Sexual crime (rape, sexual assault) and theft has gone up by 85% in the last 5 years in Kent alone

 

Fact

 

98% of immigrants to the SE are from eastern europe and Africa, in the last 5 years.

 

 

These aren't facts. These aren't fact at all. This won't do. This won't do at all.

[Kevin D]

On 05/04/2011 at 15:16, Strontium Dog said:

 

 

Oh, I suppose you think I shouldn't be concerned about the love of my life having to spend time among violent criminals just because she wants to properly learn how to use computers?

 

Maybe if you ever found it in yourself to love and be loved by another human being, you soulless husk of a man, then you wouldn't be such a nasty little gobshite.