The AV Vote

[dennis tooth]

I'm voting yes.

 

If this helps us get away from the two party system we currently have, then we owe it to future generations to help put such a system in place.

 

Got my 'no to AV' card through today, and the points being made are juvenile. I don't mind more coalitions, in fact I think it's fucking healthy that politicians are made to work with people who don't necessarily agree with them. They are, after all, politicians and should be able to work with other people, like we all have to.

Another shitty aspect was the point made about the BNP, and how some parties will 'pander to the BNP vote'. Well, it's already been happening for years, this isn't changing that. Besides which, much of the Tory manifesto could quite conceivably have been BNP prose, really not much difference. It also enabled the likes of the Tories to justify and hide behind the coalition whilst bullying their small partner in the background. I used to have respect for the Libs as did many others, now they are ruined, thrown on the scrapheap like an prostitute who has caught AIDs.

 

What strikes me is that this country is ready for change, we drum up the courage to vote Green or Lib Dem, or any other minority party, and then get downhearted when the same outcome is announced, your vote was wasted. In the same way the 'no to AV' group try to scare people with the BNP thing, it's worth remembering that the Green party and such like are also very important here, and so their views will also have to appear on the radar of the reds and blues if they want Green voters' second vote.

 

I think the AV is exciting and the only way forward, and a great way to knock the heads of political parties together. Listen to us, you fuckers.

 

I would like to think the way you do but what about accountablility, that's why I don't want coalitions as you vote for one thing and then yes the greens may get a bit of power but it will be ineffective against the big parties like the Libs have shown, it only leads to them breaking the promises and assurances before the election, which begs the question what is the point? They are less acountable, they cannot predict what coalition they will end up in and so then don't have to tell you what they would do ala Nick Clegg before the election refusing to be drawn on what he would do in a coalition or even who he was willing to be in one with.

 

They need to overhaul the system not tweak it, the whole education and media systems need to be overhauled also though to give the public a half decent chance to wade through all the bullshit and actually chose the right candidate for them.

[Strontium]

Soooo, how did everyone vote, then?

 

Did you vote YES, or did you join forces with the Tories, the BNP, the Daily Mail and The Sun?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

That's a bit loaded!

 

I'm begrudgingly voted Oui. It doesn't matter though, it's going to be a Non!

[TheBitch]

I'm voting yes. But I know it's fruitless.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Lots of chatter about Chris Huhne.

[Gym Beglin]

You can't straight-faced say to me that the current voting system has been successful.

We're always choosing between Tory and Labour as to which party offends us the least. That's not what voting should be about.

[cochcaer]

You can't straight-faced say to me that the current voting system has been successful.

We're always choosing between Tory and Labour as to which party offends us the least. That's not what voting should be about.

 

Give Clegg a kicking may influence many peoples vote. If he can compromise then so can I.

[Anny Road]

Soooo, how did everyone vote, then?

 

Did you vote YES, or did you join forces with the Tories, the BNP, the Daily Mail and The Sun?

 

Ha Ha. Said without a hint of self awareness.

[Strontium]

I joined forces with the BNP and The Sun? When did this happen?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I joined forces with the BNP and The Sun? When did this happen?

 

I love that you've omitted Tories and Daily Mail from that.

[Strontium]

Well, I don't agree with them either, I just didn't want to interrupt my flow.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

But your party did join forces with the Tories, and you do agree with a lot of what they're doing, do you not?

 

Anyway, back to AV. No results 'til tomorrow night. I might put this thread on ice.

[Anny Road]

So how can you criticize people who will vote no, like me, and accuse them of joining the torries and the mail etc? When your lot joining in with them is one of the primary reasons for voting no. I voted no so we can wipe Clegg of the political map at the next opportunity

[Strontium]

But your party did join forces with the Tories, and you do agree with a lot of what they're doing, do you not?

 

 

I agree with some of what they're doing, but that's true of any number of parties. I'm not going to pretend that I particularly like them, and I'm sure they won't pretend that they particularly like us either.

 

When your lot joining in with them is one of the primary reasons for voting no. I voted no so we can wipe Clegg of the political map at the next opportunity

 

 

Well you're a stupid fucking idiot, then, aren't you?

[Anny Road]

 

 

 

 

Well you're a stupid fucking idiot, then, aren't you?

 

Anything that makes it more unlikely that your lot hold the balance of power and able to prop up the last party I'd wish to support is a good idea in my view. If that makes me an idiot then that probably applies to a huge section of the electorate. Your flippant dismissal of my opinion and you smug attitude is precisely why this AV vote will be a no and why the Lib dems will spend the next decade in the political wilderness.

[Karl_b]

I've voted yes and I voted Labour in the local elections.

 

I voted yes as I believe it offers a fairer system than the current one, despite not being perfect. I think SD responded to somebody recently who said (I'm paraphrasing here) that they were 'voting no, against the Tory wannabe Lib Dems' with 'by voting with the actual Tories?'. I think that's a fair point, I have misgivings with the way Clegg and the Lib Dems have gone about this coalition but I'm not going to let that cloud my judgement on what I see to be an important, progressive issue.

 

All the horrible propaganda that has gone in to the 'no' vote (and I'm sure it exists on the other side to some degree) disgusts me. We shouldn't have to chose between keeping babies alive and implementing a fairer voting system but it's symptomatic of the style over substance, scare-mongering politics of the day.

 

I voted Labour because the man lives next door to me and seems a nice chap.

[bri]

I watched an interview with Paddy Ashdown (very impressive bloke by the way) and the Guardian a while back about why the LD's went with the Tory's and it was a convincing argument to a point. The point being that at least now they would have a semblance of power for the first time.

 

His point fell down however on the back of they've pretty much had to back down on everything they stood for on the guise of "we didn't know how bad the finances were" Which is an insult to anyone with half a brain. The Tories let the LD's have their day in the sun with the AV referendum. I mean what a farce. Your asking about 60% of the population (that's all that vote anyway) to change a system that's been in place for over 100 years in a couple of weeks. The idea of making your pm, councillor work harder is a noble one and so they should. But the actual way to get a result potentially ends up in a farce and you end up with "Everybody gets what nobody wants" it's better the devil you know.

 

The Tory's are old hats at dealing with this type of crisis. Instead of pointing the finger at the City they point to Labour and keep their finance friends within arms reach. They'll milk the LD's for all they can until they've secured enough seats to take the country themselves. They must be laughing their heads off behind closed doors.

 

Nick Clegg is a PR disaster, the guy is an absolute joke and the Tories must love trudging him out to deliver more bad news, especially on the student fees issue, where they've treated the public like a cheap Ryanair flight. . I've no doubt if they hang around in this coalition for long enough the party could well sink into the oblivion.

[lifetime fan]

Well you're a stupid fucking idiot, then, aren't you?

 

Never insult someone when not insulted first?

 

As for the AV vote I reluctantly went yes. Pity we didn't have a vote on PR.

[silverlining]

So how can you criticize people who will vote no, like me, and accuse them of joining the torries and the mail etc? When your lot joining in with them is one of the primary reasons for voting no. I voted no so we can wipe Clegg of the political map at the next opportunity

 

Even if one has no real idea what "AV" voting entails, or the slightest clue about the impact it could have on politics and government in general, or even what the initials "AV" stands for, I think the fact that David Cameron wants you to vote "no" would be enough evidence to vote "yes".

[Anny Road]

Even if one has no real idea what "AV" voting entails, or the slightest clue about the impact it could have on politics and government in general, or even what the initials "AV" stands for, I think the fact that David Cameron wants you to vote "no" would be enough evidence to vote "yes".

Which is a fair point except for the fact that AV could have the effect of strengthening the lib dems who then have the ability to keep Cameron in No 10.

The first past the post system will annihilate the Lib dems at the next election with most of those votes going to Labour. So if you really want rid of the tories the Lib Dems need slaying first. If AV gets the nod Clegg in all likelihood could again find himself in this position.

[RJ Fan club]

I voted yes, for all the good it will do. its a miserable compromise, but it more progressive than the current option. Hopefully its a step to full PR and on that basis I voted for it.

 

I figured that if we say no now, then you can kiss PR or other systems good by for a good while. I hoped it might be a yes forcing another situation to whereby PR might be offered, a kind incremental step as such. We don't have these opportunities often and if it's turned down I can't see it being offered for a while.

 

It was quite tempting to vote no and basis of seeing Clegg and the Lib Dems defeated, but in the end I had to do the right thing. As it happens, I'll be laughing either way.

[Melchett]

I voted Yes because I'm easily led.

[Ian Sea]

I voted Yes too, can't see it being successful though.

[Teflon Don]

I voted yes, for all the good it will do. its a miserable compromise, but it more progressive than the current option. Hopefully its a step to full PR and on that basis I voted for it.

 

I figured that if we say no now, then you can kiss PR or other systems good by for a good while. I hoped it might be a yes forcing another situation to whereby PR might be offered, a kind incremental step as such. We don't have these opportunities often and if it's turned down I can't see it being offered for a while.

 

My sentiments, too. Initially I was leaning towards voting No due to the type of voting system on offer, but also came to the conclusion that any change from FPTP would be a (small) step in the right direction.

[Yozzer]

I voted yes - nothing near what would be deemed a fair voting system but it's at least pointing in the right direction. Unfortunately, I feel my vote is in vain.