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Will you vote for Alternative Vote?  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you vote for Alternative Vote?

    • Yes
      29
    • No
      25


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He said that it would have made it possible. I, and most others on the left, would have much rather seen a coalition between Labour and the Liberal Democrats than what we've got now. Judging by how much they bend, it would have been much better than what we've got now, or the alternative or a minority Conservative government.

 

A Labour-Lib Dem coalition would have been pretty exciting I think, and I can imagine Vince Cable might have had a real shot and being named chancellor.

 

I think Labour had their eye on the long game though, they wanted a period away from Government to get rid of the stink of the last few years.

 

Where they've fucked up though IMO, is by by keeping too low a profile in the ensuing debates, and I blame Ed Miliband for that.

 

When you talk to the man in the street now, there's a large amount of people from demographics you wouldn't expect, who have quite clearly swallowed the 'Labour ruined the country, Tory cuts were needed' line.

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I agree with Pre-Election Nick Clegg. AV is not a noticeable improvement on First Past The Post and democratic reformers should not be fobbed off with it, but should hold out for Proportional Representation.

 

I want to push this all the way, declares Clegg - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

 

I want to push this all the way, declares Clegg

By Andrew Grice, Political Editor

Thursday, 22 April 2010

 

Nick Clegg will demand that Gordon Brown improves on his "miserable little compromise" of limited electoral reform as the price of propping up Labour in a hung parliament.

 

In an interview with The Independent, the Liberal Democrat leader rejected Labour's proposals for electoral reform, which stop short of proportional representation (PR), and insisted on a truly proportional system for electing MPs.

 

Mr Clegg said the latest opinion polls, which suggest Labour could come third in the share of the vote but cling on to power, would make the campaign for PR unstoppable: "It is not going to be a question of us propping up [another party] but of us insisting on the changes only we advocate."

 

That Pre-Election Nick Clegg used to talk sense on several things. I wonder whatever happened to him...

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That Pre-Election Nick Clegg used to talk sense on several things. I wonder whatever happened to him...

 

I disagree, I called him a cunt well over a year ago, even when I was actually considering a Lib Dem vote, he had Tory schoolboy stink all over him. I can smell that shit miles away, I'm like dogs in the Terminator films.

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I think Labour had their eye on the long game though, they wanted a period away from Government to get rid of the stink of the last few years.

 

 

Judging by their completely obstructionist stance in the coalition negotiations, there is no doubt they wanted well away from power for a bit. I can well understand it, there is little political gain in cleaning up your own mess when someone else can do it, and cop the flak for it.

 

I disagree, I called him a cunt well over a year ago, even when I was actually considering a Lib Dem vote, he had Tory schoolboy stink all over him. I can smell that shit miles away, I'm like dogs in the Terminator films.

 

 

You were wrong then and you're wrong now. If he wanted to be a Tory, he'd be one, he'd be the sodding Prime Minsister by now, or near as dammit. Why do it the hard way when Tories were practically begging him to join them 10, 15 years ago?

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Guest Numero Veinticinco
A Labour-Lib Dem coalition would have been pretty exciting I think, and I can imagine Vince Cable might have had a real shot and being named chancellor.

 

Yep, I thought that it's what we'd end up with. It's a shame it didn't come off. That said, it would have faced major questions about the legitimacy of the two least popular parties running the country.

 

Whilst it would, in my opinion, have been far more popular in their actions - a growing economy and fairer, slower cuts, etc. - it would have had to face tough questions in regards to legitimacy.

 

Not that this coalition doesn't have serious legitimacy issues of their own.

 

I think Labour had their eye on the long game though, they wanted a period away from Government to get rid of the stink of the last few years.

 

I'm not sure Brown did. Brown, for me, is the one that got away. Whilst I didn't ever particularly like him as a person, he was an incredibly talented man. It's just that he stank of desperation for the top job, and when he got it he didn't really earn it. It was passed over by-proxy.

 

That said, the membership clearly wanted a change from the way things were going.

 

Where they've fucked up though IMO, is by by keeping too low a profile in the ensuing debates, and I blame Ed Miliband for that.

 

It's funny, the more that times goes on, the more I think Ed Miliband is just fucking brilliant. That's more of a prediction for the future than a comment about his actions now, and it might well be wrong, but there's been quite a few ways that he has impressed me.

 

When you talk to the man in the street now, there's a large amount of people from demographics you wouldn't expect, who have quite clearly swallowed the 'Labour ruined the country, Tory cuts were needed' line.

 

Support for the Conservative/LD coalition is on its arse, to be honest. I'd agree that people - ignorant in general - have swallowed the line from the Sun and Mail, but opinion is swinging back to the left.

 

Judging by their completely obstructionist stance in the coalition negotiations, there is no doubt they wanted well away from power for a bit. I can well understand it, there is little political gain in cleaning up your own mess when someone else can do it, and cop the flak for it.

 

What political mess? The financial crisis that was limited to Labour held constituencies and was solely the fault of Labour? Maybe the wars that your bedfellows voted more strongly in favour of than Labour themselves?

 

I'm interested to see what happening with this Labour 'refounding'. I've got a feeling that this new incarnation of the Labour party is quite far away from being ready to be judged. If they allow the left-wing base of the party to form policy, it'll be a much better alternative to this unholy coalition.

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I'm going to wipe my arse with my voting paper, because that's what the government do to me. It doesn't matter who wins or how- shit still stinks.

 

This government or all governments?

 

The last government wasnt particularly bad for my class,not necessarily me personally but with better schools and education it helped me and my kids and family a hell of a lot more than any tory government has.

 

I try not to judge my success or failure on solely money but more on the other things mentioned and also for the people around me and in similar predicaments.

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This government or all governments?

 

The last government wasnt particularly bad for my class,not necessarily me personally but with better schools and education it helped me and my kids and family a hell of a lot more than any tory government has.

 

I try not to judge my success or failure on solely money but more on the other things mentioned and also for the people around me and in similar predicaments.

 

It is true that the last labour government did improve the quality of life for the majority. Unfortunately the current government will lower that standard of living. It wasn't all good under labour though- student fees, war crimes and the abandonment of the working class, not to mention the thousands of laws they passed- more than in the entire history of parliament. Most of them removing the pretence of civil liberty- the right to remain silent, the right to be presumed innocent, the right to protest, even double jeopardy and habius corpus- fundamentals of british justice- all gone and largely forgotten. It's like comparing the cumberland sausage type shit with a squirty ring ripping shit- both shit, both stink, just hurt your arse in different ways.

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It is true that the last labour government did improve the quality of life for the majority. Unfortunately the current government will lower that standard of living. It wasn't all good under labour though- student fees, war crimes and the abandonment of the working class, not to mention the thousands of laws they passed- more than in the entire history of parliament. Most of them removing the pretence of civil liberty- the right to remain silent, the right to be presumed innocent, the right to protest, even double jeopardy and habius corpus- fundamentals of british justice- all gone and largely forgotten. It's like comparing the cumberland sausage type shit with a squirty ring ripping shit- both shit, both stink, just hurt your arse in different ways.

 

The introduction of tuition fees seem to have been a good thing in my opinion because it seems that they helped renovate the unis and the student accomodation too and to expand the courses available. The lesser off students also received bursaries and maintenance loans which helped my kids massively.

These fees seem to have been used effectively in the main,I saw 4 or 5 unis personally and they all seem to have used fees well,but trebling these fees is well out of order and completely unnecessary and has been used to slag the introduction of fees right through their existence when I dont think they were envisioned as purely weapons to only allow the well off to attend.

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Support for AV collapsing, according to Guardian/ICM poll | Politics | guardian.co.uk

 

Looks like AV yes vote is going to lose. All down to Nick Clegg I reckon. That cunt couldn't see me oxygen if I was trapped in a vacuum.

 

 

There wouldn't even be a referendum if it wasn't for Nick Clegg.

 

If people are going to hand the Tories victory in the referendum because they hate Clegg for... er, whatever he's supposed to have done, then they're really dumber than a bag of rocks.

 

If the referendum is lost to the Tories, Clegg's error was obviously in believing that people would want a better democracy. All politicians can do is give people the opportunity to improve their lives, you can't force the cunts to choose it.

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There wouldn't even be a referendum if it wasn't for Nick Clegg.

 

If people are going to hand the Tories victory in the referendum because they hate Clegg for... er, whatever he's supposed to have done, then they're really dumber than a bag of rocks.

 

If the referendum is lost to the Tories, Clegg's error was obviously in believing that people would want a better democracy. All politicians can do is give people the opportunity to improve their lives, you can't force the cunts to choose it.

 

A big problem is the media and also the marketing of lack-of done by the pro camp. Most people out there don't understand the difference, they don't know the pros and cons or what it will mean to their lives. To a lesser extent, even among people who do understand the issues, there's no buzz about politics, there's no excitement or ideas or personalities breaking through, it's a monoculture, a dull and bland monoculture which has an inevitiablity about it and is so utterly divorced from the man in the street as to be almost irrelevent. It's like living in a distant Roman province and knowing you will never see the Emperor. At most, you might see a tax collector every five years and maybe get one of your pigs nicked by a soldier. But as a rule, Rome is irrelevent.

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There wouldn't even be a referendum if it wasn't for Nick Clegg.

 

If people are going to hand the Tories victory in the referendum because they hate Clegg for... er, whatever he's supposed to have done, then they're really dumber than a bag of rocks.

 

If the referendum is lost to the Tories, Clegg's error was obviously in believing that people would want a better democracy. All politicians can do is give people the opportunity to improve their lives, you can't force the cunts to choose it.

 

There wouldn't be a Tory goverment if it wasn't for Nick Clegg.

 

And whatever he has done? See above, student fees, NHS cuts, welfare cuts, etc.

 

And dumber than a bag of rocks? You really are a funny cunt, ever though about being a speech writer.

 

Thanks for the neg by the way. I'll wear it as a badge of achievement.

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There wouldn't be a Tory goverment if it wasn't for Nick Clegg.

 

 

There isn't a Tory government. There would be, though, if there was no coalition.

 

And whatever he has done? See above, student fees, NHS cuts, welfare cuts, etc.

 

 

What The Hell Have The Lib Dems Done?

 

And any cuts were going to happen whichever party got in. Labour's cuts amount to 1% a year less annually in unprotected deparments. Big whoop.

 

And dumber than a bag of rocks? You really are a funny cunt, ever though about being a speech writer.

 

 

Don't blame me when you wake up on May 8th 2015 with a bona fide Tory government, and no liberal counterweight to rein back their excesses.

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There wouldn't even be a referendum if it wasn't for Nick Clegg.

 

If people are going to hand the Tories victory in the referendum because they hate Clegg for... er, whatever he's supposed to have done, then they're really dumber than a bag of rocks.

 

If the referendum is lost to the Tories, Clegg's error was obviously in believing that people would want a better democracy. All politicians can do is give people the opportunity to improve their lives, you can't force the cunts to choose it.

A better democracy - or any sort of democracy - would be one in which politicians make promises before the election then, once in power, try to deliver them. Clegg has done nothing but lead his shower of cunts in propping up an illegitimate Tory Government who are pushing through the kind of shite that Lib Dems used to argue against.

 

If you vote for the Quisling cocksuckers on the 5th, that's one more vote than they deserve.

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There isn't a Tory government. There would be, though, if there was no coalition.

 

Don't blame me when you wake up on May 8th 2015 with a bona fide Tory government, and no liberal counterweight to rein back their excesses.

You're starting to sound like Simon now: if it's got a squirrel's body and it runs like a squirrel and eats nuts, then you have to call it a squirrel, not a squeasant. This is, by any definition, a hardline Tory Government and it only exists because your shower sold their arses for a chance to sit next to the people in power.

 

As for your argument about counterweights reining back the Tory excesses... I've just discovered what this :wallbutt: is for.

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