Arsenal

[aRdja]

Point well and truly missed. The point of my opening post was that it had nothing to do with Liverpool. It was the fact the Arsenal manager is continually deluding the Arsenal fans that they are going places when they are probably the most stagnant team in the entire league. The thread has since become quite a funny Arsenal v Liverpool debate, with the Arsenal fan no doubt about to tell us how they won more corners then us 2 seasons ago. But the post you have quoted is all about Arsenal fans burying their heads in the sand and blaming everything else instead of looking at themselves for their problems. Something you seem to have done by bringing up one of our former managers for some reason.

But achievements are relative to the aspirations.

 

Blackpool for example, would call surviving the relegation battle an achievement.

Chelsea on the other hand would deem finishing 2nd as a failure.

Arsenal are a well-run, debtless club who have consistently finished above those who spent significantly more than them. Is that not an achievement JohnnyH?

[aRdja]

I should warn you that ardja is a massive, massive cunt.

 

Think Rashid, but about 100 times worse.

 

He's utterly reviled on several LFC forums.

Here we go again. You practically begged the mods at 6CM to ban me, and stop spouting lies please. Prior to this I have only been a member of 6CM post-Koptalk.

[silverlining]

Here we go again. You practically begged the mods at 6CM to ban me, and stop spouting lies please. Prior to this I have only been a member of 6CM post-Koptalk.

 

Everyone deserves a second chance. Or third. Or fourth.

 

Let's see how you get on.

[Unrighteous]

The sad thing about all of this is that ABS is sooo fucking distraught that his gang of fannies (thanks RIS) has blown ANOTHER golden opportunity at ANOTHER trophy. It really doesn't have anything to do with us, so he's trying to rebuild some semblance of confidence, and restore a bit of pride for his lot.

 

Of course, all his 'better dribblers' and 'quality' talking didn't equate to three points... AGAIN.

 

It's Arseanl's modus operandi, really, because it's what happens every damn time since Wenger's obsession with his kids. Bottling it when they really can't afford it... Will Arsenal ever reach the highest levels again?

 

I have a fair amount of time for Arsenal, and whatnot, but c'mon... they're in the dictionary next to "Bottler".

 

You can sit there and chat up your league position, but the only thing that you can hold over our heads is that your lot will earn more money in the Champions League next year... and that's it.

 

There is no trophy for second place, as we learned, two years ago. Finally, until Wenger grows a pair, and spends big on reinforcements, Arsenal will continue to be the "Disney" of the Premier League.

[JohnnyH]

But achievements are relative to the aspirations.

 

Blackpool for example, would call surviving the relegation battle an achievement.

Chelsea on the other hand would deem finishing 2nd as a failure.

Arsenal are a well-run, debtless club who have consistently finished above those who spent significantly more than them. Is that not an achievement JohnnyH?

 

Arsenal were a title winning club. 3 league titles in 7 seasons, and then nothing over the last 7 years means that a once good manager has been on a steady decline. So no, I would say that the former success suggests that their aspirations should be titles, and if it wasn't for their amazing and continued ability to bottle it, then they should be clear out in front now, but poor form in the transfer market and a stubborn, stupid belief in his squad means that yet again they are snatching defeat from the claws of victory.

 

If Arsenal Football Club were a golfer, they'd be a little Northern Irish one with curly hair and a duck hook.

 

I've noticed that your very few posts are to disagree with Liverpool fans about the very clear fact that under our current manager we are better then Arsenal, and to slam one of our teenage players. Not one even remotely positive post yet from you.

 

Who do you really support? Is it Arsenal?

[RedinSweden]

But achievements are relative to the aspirations.

 

Blackpool for example, would call surviving the relegation battle an achievement.

Chelsea on the other hand would deem finishing 2nd as a failure.

Arsenal are a well-run, debtless club who have consistently finished above those who spent significantly more than them. Is that not an achievement JohnnyH?

 

According to abs they are a bigger club than us, so their aspirations should be higher than ours. It will be interesting to see how long they keep Wenger given that this latest choking means a 6 year trophyless spell. They only came so close this year because Chelsea imploded.

[Reacher]

 

Dominated? How do you explain 58% possession. 6-4 on attempts on target for Arsenal 6-2 attempts off target for Arsenal? First half we dominated play and made you chase shaddows. Second half you got an early goal and defended

 

How do you explain a better point average against the all the top four, whilst you have played utd in the same time since Dalglish has come back? It isn't Newcastle-esque if it's working.

 

Face it Dalglish with a full season and a few signings we might not win the league but he'll do some damage. We managed to get two draws against you this season ;)

[aRdja]

According to abs they are a bigger club than us, so their aspirations should be higher than ours. It will be interesting to see how long they keep Wenger given that this latest choking means a 6 year trophyless spell. They only came so close this year because Chelsea imploded.

Abs is an idiot then (No offence intended).

[aRdja]

Arsenal were a title winning club. 3 league titles in 7 seasons, and then nothing over the last 7 years means that a once good manager has been on a steady decline. So no, I would say that the former success suggests that their aspirations should be titles, and if it wasn't for their amazing and continued ability to bottle it, then they should be clear out in front now, but poor form in the transfer market and a stubborn, stupid belief in his squad means that yet again they are snatching defeat from the claws of victory.

 

If Arsenal Football Club were a golfer, they'd be a little Northern Irish one with curly hair and a duck hook.

 

I've noticed that your very few posts are to disagree with Liverpool fans about the very clear fact that under our current manager we are better then Arsenal, and to slam one of our teenage players. Not one even remotely positive post yet from you.

 

Who do you really support? Is it Arsenal?

Nope. Liverpool.

 

I just happen to disagree with your views on Arsenal and Shelvey. I hope that's okay.

[RedinSweden]

Nope. Liverpool.

 

I just happen to disagree with your views on Arsenal and Shelvey. I hope that's okay.

 

The Shelvey one is fine, but not the Arsenal one. Not while I have air in my lungs.

[Guest TesticleOReilly]

Arsenal had the majority of the possession and dominance in the League Cup final.

 

Arsenal 1 – 2 Birmingham City

[Trumo]

Abs, please kindly refer to my two posts on the first page of this thread. I'm positive you will recognise the scenario. It has been the case since 2005. I would go as far as to say that Wenger's Arsenal have a lot on common with Evans' Liverpool. Technically one of the best teams in the league, probably playing the best football, a goalkeeper prone to errors, usually there or thereabouts but so mentally fragile that they are nowhere to be seen when it's prize-giving time.

 

The big difference is that Wenger has had the same problems crop up year in year out to such an extent that it is like clockwork. He hasn't lacked the resources to deal with the problems but his steadfast refusal to do so means that it is not inconceivable that he'll be talking about "lacking maturity" even while fielding a team of 35 year olds.

[Lee909]

But achievements are relative to the aspirations.

 

Blackpool for example, would call surviving the relegation battle an achievement.

Chelsea on the other hand would deem finishing 2nd as a failure.

Arsenal are a well-run, debtless club who have consistently finished above those who spent significantly more than them. Is that not an achievement JohnnyH?

 

Dont agree at all.

If city spend another 70ml this summer and win the league/Europe thats success,if you spend nothing and win the league success,if you grind out results and win like chelski did under Mourinho thats success.

If you spend less than your rivals but only finish in the top four thats not a successfull side.At the end of the day a few quotes come to mind when looking at success

“If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing

 

 

 

And for sides and these new generation of sky sports and champions league fans happy and think a top 4 place is successfull

 

“Aim for the sky and you'll reach the ceiling. Aim for the ceiling and you'll stay on the floor.”

[razor]

Dominated? How do you explain 58% possession. 6-4 on attempts on target for Arsenal 6-2 attempts off target for Arsenal? First half we dominated play and made you chase shaddows. Second half you got an early goal and defended

 

We had 10 men by the way.

 

As a final point, I don't know one Liverpool fan who would trade us right now with where we are and who we have with Arsenal and where they are and who they have.

 

You will qualify for the Champions League this year (and get knocked out relatively early). But you will finish second and we will finish 5th/6th, so fair play to you.

 

But that was from a handicapped start. Next year I hope you still feel the urge to come on here, because if we're not above you then I'm the one who is delusional.

 

You are a mess. There's a constant conveyor belt of average midfielders and ineffective defenders that just wouldn't get anywhere near Arsenal squads of the past. Wiltshire is the clear exception.

 

Your captain is another clear exception, but really, will he be your player next year? No, I don't think so either, so I wouldn't include him.

 

The fact that you were man utd's nearest challengers is a damning indictment of the division and the lack of consistency rather than a credible reflection of your quality. You'll come second by 12 points, I reckon.

 

You're not worth the hope I considered placing in you a few months ago, you toothless, gutless frauds.

 

 

 

 

PS Whelan - like your work.

[Malarkey]

 

offcourse you are improving...you were fighting relegation earlier this season and is now a midtable team. Do you really think you will attract players who can help you challenge for the league next season while playing Europa League?

 

And your lost obsession with "the king" sounds just like Newcastle fans obsession with geordie manager. You really are deluded if you think you gonna challenge for the league next season. you are miles behind. And I hate to break it to you, but these yanks aint better than the earlier ones. They bought you cause you were cheap and is after making quick buck. Remind me where the stadium talk is going?

 

Were not really. You're just as smug as the rest of your knobhead fans. Your best 11 couldn't even break down a Liverpool team that was patched up with youth players and had no Gerrard.

 

As someone else said before, you couldn't even turn United over at home. You and United are the best of a really bad bunch. That's how bad this league is this season.

 

So go a crack one off over Wenger. Your team has no character to fight back after these set backs you have time and time again. As Fabregas said, you need to stop nurturing young talent and start winning trophies. 6 years.

[jackofdk]

The story about Arsenal is the story of a football club and its fans who has adopted the mentality of their bigger-than-the-club manager.

 

I spoke to an Arsenal fan I know last week, a very intelligent guy and a brilliant footballer himself. When I raised Arsenal's need for spending on dominant player for centre midfield and defense, he claimed Song was way good enough and that according to Arsene (his words), Diaby was the most talented of his current players.

 

When I said that I though Diaby sometimes looked very good but could look useless as well, the conversation ended.

 

Another Arsenal fan I know - probably the nicest guy on earth - seem to explain every defeat or loss of points with the referee's decisions.

 

If the fans are like that, it is no wonder that the players are acting petulant spoiled brats at the first sign of a headwind. Wenger has build a beuatiful footballing identity, but his refusal to acknowledge the obvious has bred a losing mentality that it would take a new strong manager to turn around.

[Whelan]

In all fairness to Arsenal fans, and one point I think gets missed, it is this acceptance of the 'intangible' in relation to their definition of success that is probably stopping them from actually being successful!

 

If the fans stopped accepting, just 'nice football' and emphasised the whole point of being a top side i.e. winning trophies, then maybe they will actually go out and make the decisions that will bring them success!

 

But as it is, they accept their role as smug, self righteous artisans, more concerned with aesthetically pleasing football, and deriding any team that even attempts to score the 'non' perfect goal! (whilst hoping that those of us of a certain age, don't bring up the long ball merchants who they used to support just as proudly, what was that song 'one nil to the Arsenal' a song sung in defiance of the boring chants!).

 

I hope they don't change, make it all a lot easier to catch when everyone else has finished actually addressing their weaknesses!

[Guest TK-421]

The quadruple: it's on.

[Guest ian garro]

But as it is, they accept their role as smug, self righteous artisans, more concerned with aesthetically pleasing football, and deriding any team that even attempts to score the 'non' perfect goal!

 

Once again, Whelan nails it. It's the above, plus the whole "How can you do this to us" attitude, every time there's a foul, a disallowed goal etc etc that really grates.

 

They represent the antithesis of a "No Excuses" culture.

 

In the summer, I half expect Wenger to go out and spend money, but he'll probably spend it on 2 Nasri type players: Technically proficient, easy on the eye, but devoid of any character and bottle - they will start the season like a house on fire, and disappear up their own arses come the middle of December - this will in no way be their fault.

[TommyW]

by and large, the arsenal fans I know are exasperated at how things are going and slowly but surely are beginning to question Wenger. Fear of the grass not always being greener prevents them saying there definitely needs to be a change but the rumblings are there.

 

Also, what they say in arguments with supporters of other clubs (prettiest football, team of the future etc) isnt a fair judge of their real opinions I've found, thats the stuff they resort to to fight their corner, similar to us bringing up the 5 European Cups etc when people have questioned the positions we've found ourselves in recently

[buffaloboy]

This is what the BBC Sport online report said about Arsenal 1 Liverpool 1 from 5 April 2008. "Arsenal's Premier League hopes took another huge blow as they were held at home by Liverpool.With Manchester United still 5 points clear, and with a game in hand, Arsenal's title ambitions look all but over". Anyone think it sounds familiar? In 3 years Arsenal haven't got any better. In 3 years we have had the power struggle of Rafa and the previous owners, Alonso, Mascherano and Torres bail out, Hodgson come in and lose the plot and while Arsenal have had peace and harmony. No power struggle, Wenger safe as houses in his job and yet 3 years after that match report the exact same things go on. They went to Barcelona and couldn't get out of their own half, it was embarrassing. This cobblers about them being a "young side" is pure crap too. The nucleus of the side is 25-26, not teenagers by any stretch. Even the younger ones have been there for years. Walcott joined Arsenal in January 2006 and since then where has his career gone? He either comes on as sub or gets subbed off after doing very little as last match. Bentdner is pretty useless too.

[Whelan]

In the summer, I half expect Wenger to go out and spend money, but he'll probably spend it on 2 Nasri type players: Technically proficient, easy on the eye, but devoid of any character and bottle - they will start the season like a house on fire, and disappear up their own arses come the middle of December - this will in no way be their fault.

 

 

That is exactly it!

 

You look at that team and think, they need a Cahill organising, a Parker or Fletcher driving them on, an Owen putting the odd chance away, even a Crouch for variety.

 

But they will sign the french Quaresma and flatter to deceive!

 

Whilst all their fans shout 'hoof' at goalkicks! They are a classic case of a team whose major strength is quickly becoming their major weakness.

[shaunstrudwick]

there's only one Quaresma!!!! ;)

[liverpooltj]

[Anubis]

I should warn you that ardja is a massive, massive cunt.

 

Think Rashid, but about 100 times worse.

 

He's utterly reviled on several LFC forums.

 

 

Worse than Danperkins? He'd have to go some...

 

As an aside, which of these do you think is Abs? I love Pepe's positioning on the halfway line.

 

[YOUTUBE]IskXw2rpv6w[/YOUTUBE]