Carra

[goatboy59]

And let's not pretend it's not extremely convenient for people who don't want the issue discussed to claim there is a ruthless and monolithic conspiracy attempting to take over the world by attacking Carragher.

 

And you think that's happening here? Really?

 

People got their wish when Carragher did his shoulder in against Spurs, and let's just say what was left wasn't terribly impressive. When this mood also leads to the over-estimation of Agger and even Skrtel's ability, the subterfuge becomes even more ludicrous.

 

For me it's Abs behaviour, rank opportunism, and I couldn't be that.

 

I don't see why anyone would want to.

[Johnny Cougar]

This is going to be another 78 page Civil War thriller isn't it? Carra is shit. No he isn't. Rafa was a cunt. No he wasn't.

Fuck it off now.

[zigackly]

Name a defender that never makes mistakes and I will name you a liar. The rational observer weighs the mistakes in light of the positive contribution the same player makes.

[ritchie]

And you think that's happening here? Really?

 

People got their wish when Carragher did his shoulder in against Spurs, and let's just say what was left wasn't terribly impressive. When this mood also leads to the over-estimation of Agger and even Skrtel's ability, the subterfuge becomes even more ludicrous.

 

For me it's Abs behaviour, rank opportunism, and I couldn't be that.

 

I don't see why anyone would want to.

 

If Carragher's still the best we've got then what the fuck are we doing expecting a top 4 finish?

 

He wouldn't even be 4th choice anymore at United, Chelsea or even Spurs.

[zigackly]

If Carragher's still the best we've got then what the fuck are we doing expecting a top 4 finish?

 

Are you saying we can't finish in the top four with Carragher in the team? I'll take that bet. Tenner to the HJC?

[Johnny Cougar]

Name a defender that never makes mistakes and I will name you a liar. The rational observer weighs the mistakes in light of the positive contribution the same player makes.

 

In my years of going to the game, Neal made some howlers and was jeered for it and Hughes was sold before he could make anymore. Hansen made his share and so did Lawrenson. Carra is one in a long line of fantastic servants to this club who will inevitably make more mistakes as he gets older. Carragher has never been blessed with the greatest of pure footballing ability, but he has got us out of a lot more shit than he has ever dropped us in. That he hasn't been replaced by somebody younger and better by now isn't his fault.

Those are the facts.

[zigackly]

In my years of going to the game, Neal made some howlers and was jeered for it and Hughes was sold before he could make anymore. Hansen made his share and so did Lawrenson. Carra is one in a long line of fantastic servants to this club who will inevitably make more mistakes as he gets older. Carragher has never been blessed with the greatest of pure footballing ability, but he has got us out of a lot more shit than he has ever dropped us in. That he hasn't been replaced by somebody younger and better by now isn't his fault.

Those are the facts.

 

Is right.

[Guest SpiderLucas]

Carragher can no longer handle big or pacey strikers; Adebayor is both quick and big. Playing Carragher against Tottenham is suicide, I said before the season started that Carragher will be a liability giving away penalties and making mistakes, do people forget his fucking howler against Bolton?

 

As much as I hate United and I fucking hate them, we need to learn from them that to win trophies and to be a top side you need to be ruthless. When a player isn’t physically up to the task anymore you bomb them out, and Carragher isn’t up to it, it’s a simple as that.

[goatboy59]

He wouldn't even be 4th choice anymore at United, Chelsea or even Spurs.

 

Keep making my point for me.

[zigackly]

Playing Carragher against Tottenham is suicide

 

If he plays and we win, will you come back and admit you were wrong?

[Kevin D]

I have no problem with debating his mistakes, or his age, or his shall we say limited skill on the ball. I ask only that people respect the fact that he's a club legend and don't descend into attacking and/or insulting the lad. Shouldn't be too much to ask should it?

 

I think that may be the case on this site, sir rog, but there are plenty of other sites where defending him would place you in a derided minority. In the case of RAWK and RAOTL, this sea change has come about not with the waning of his powers so much as the perception that he may not have loved Rafa enough.

 

Without wishing to enter tin-foil hat territory, I don't think that's an outrageous position to hold. I think it's a reasonable assumption, given their service, ability and stature, that Gerrard and Carragher had some influence with the MD and they probably didn't use it to unequivocally back Rafa. That's fine, they were doubtless doing what they(and a sizeable section of our support) thought was best for the club. That's not to say they were at fault for, or significantly contributed to, his mutual consenting; they weren't, their performances were a key factor in the success we enjoyed under Rafa.

 

Now if you reckon consenting Rafa, and subsequently appointing Roy, was a mistake then I think it's fair enough to be cross with their involvement, no?

[Il Fenomeno]

Anyone who has contributed to the club deserves respect, unless they throw it back at us. This attitude you display is exactly the kind of tit for tat bullshit we need to purge ourselves of if we want to move forward.

 

I was just using it as evidence to refute the claim that Carragher was being persecuted for being Scouse, its more likely that people looking for a scapegoat after a poor performance, and after a couple of shit seasons.

[Captain]

Sounds similar to something a Spanish, European cup winning manager endured, maybe some fans should've shown him a bit more respect too.

 

Touché.

[zigackly]

Without wishing to enter tin-foil hat territory, I don't think that's an outrageous position to hold. I think it's a reasonable assumption, given their service, ability and stature, that Gerrard and Carragher had some influence with the MD and they probably didn't use it to unequivocally back Rafa.

 

That's fine, they were doubtless doing what they(and a sizeable section of our support) thought was best for the club. That's not to say they were at fault for, or significantly contributed to, his mutual consenting; they weren't, their performances were a key factor in the success we enjoyed under Rafa.

 

Now if you reckon consenting Rafa, and subsequently appointing Roy, was a mistake then I think it's fair enough to be cross with their involvement, no?

 

That's all pure assumption on your part, but if you are asked for your opinion as an employee by your boss, you give it honestly, surely? And blaming someone for giving an opinion is fucking ludicrous. They didn't make the decision to sack Rafa or to hire Hodgson; ultimately Martin Broughton did. If you want to lay blame, that's the door you ought to be knocking on. Holding resentment against two players who have been the beating heart of this club for so many years on the basis that they might have given an opinion when asked for it is patently ridiculous, and I would have thought someone of your intelligence could see that.

 

By the way, if you ask Rafa himself he will tell you that he was fired because he gave Broughton no choice but him or Purslow, having felt that he had enough proof of Purslow's dishonesty to see him axed. After he'd recently got rid of Parry in the same way, Broughton felt that he could not be allowed to hold that much power. I have had this from two completely independent sources who got it from the man himself in one case and his legal representative in the other.

Edited September 11, 2011 by zigackly

[Owen]

And you think that's happening here? Really?

 

People got their wish when Carragher did his shoulder in against Spurs, and let's just say what was left wasn't terribly impressive. When this mood also leads to the over-estimation of Agger and even Skrtel's ability, the subterfuge becomes even more ludicrous.

 

For me it's Abs behaviour, rank opportunism, and I couldn't be that.

 

I don't see why anyone would want to.

 

Spectacularly, hilariously hypocritical. Bravo.

[Evil_Ways]

Yep Skrtel ,makes mistakes even when he isn't on the pitch.

 

He has made two already this season...

 

Oh no that was Carragher!

 

 

Yeah im not saying he hasnt made mistakes either.

 

But i do remember Skrtel playing in all our 38 league fixtures last season, and stood for alot of fuck ups, Skrtel on his day is good, but he is a ruthless brute, i think most people really missed Carra when he did his shoulder last season. And i'd think it would be a mistake to play Skrtel ahead of Carra. Hopefully Coates will come in and take over, because it would mean he is better.

[Kevin D]

And you think that's happening here? Really?

 

People got their wish when Carragher did his shoulder in against Spurs, and let's just say what was left wasn't terribly impressive. When this mood also leads to the over-estimation of Agger and even Skrtel's ability, the subterfuge becomes even more ludicrous.

 

For me it's Abs behaviour, rank opportunism, and I couldn't be that.

 

I don't see why anyone would want to.

 

I think it's consistently happened in Carragher threads over the years to the point people have decided it simply isn't worth it.

 

In fact, it's happened in your second paragraph. You're ascribing bizzare motives to everybody questioning his place in the team.

[RobbieOR]

Its like the good old days in this thread.

 

Why did Alonso leave?

[Guest SpiderLucas]

If he plays and we win, will you come back and admit you were wrong?

 

If he plays and we win 3-2 but he gives away 2 penalties or makes 2 mistakes then no, but if he plays, we win and he plays well then yes. I'll admit I’m wrong, I’d be more than happy to admit I’m wrong. Just like in 4 years I hope I keep getting reminded about how little I rate Andy Carroll as it means he’s doing well for us.

[Kevin D]

That's all pure assumption on your part, but if you are asked for your opinion as an employee by your boss, you give it honestly, surely?

 

Agreed.

 

It is all assumption but it's feasible I think and I personally hold no ill will towards either. I think they did what they thought was best for the club and that's all you can reasonably ask.

[zigackly]

Agreed.

 

It is all assumption but it's feasible I think and I personally hold no ill will towards either. I think they did what they thought was best for the club and that's all you can reasonably ask.

 

Not that it would have had had any impact in any case, as I explained in my second paragraph.

[Gym Beglin]

His contract is not brought up because he's our 2nd on our all time appearance list, he's one of our best players and a fantastic servant.

 

In other words.

 

Fuck off

 

Good luck running your charity/football type organisation.

Thank fuck our fans buy-in never worked out, we'd still have Fowler here on £125k a week, and Carragher would be manager before his 36th birthday.

[ritchie]

Are you saying we can't finish in the top four with Carragher in the team? I'll take that bet. Tenner to the HJC?

 

I don't think he is the best we've got. I think Agger is and I don't know how good Coates is. If we had Carragher alongside Skrtel for 30+ games then, no, I don't think we would finish top 4. We need better.

[Anubis]

Even on ignore, I can't get away from Ant's posting, so in his honour Anubis Productions presents a cinematic interpretation of Ant's posts - directed by John Hughes and starring Macaulay Culkin.

 

 

[YOUTUBE]H5CSBZz3eOI[/YOUTUBE]

[zigackly]

I don't think he is the best we've got. I think Agger is and I don't know how good Coates is. If we had Carragher alongside Skrtel for 30+ games then, no, I don't think we would finish top 4. We need better.

 

Backing down then. You originally stated that we could not expect to finish in the top four with Carra in the team.