Carra

[ritchie]

Wrong again.

 

Look at how he's helped Flanno, look at how he helped Kelly.

 

Was he helping Kelly by screaming at him in Utrecht when the ball was still in play?

 

Look when he was out injured for a few months last season and how fucking shite we where in defence.

 

We were shite in defence the whole time Hodgson was in charge. With and without Carragher. Look at our results and defensive record last season with and without Agger.

 

But lets just ignore the fact he's known as a leader in the side, ignore the fact that without Carragher we look crap, and ignore the outlying fact we have no one better.

 

To quote my earlier post - if we've got nobody better than Carragher then we need to adjust our expectations of being a top 4 team as he wouldn't get in any other top 6 team and every succesful team needs a solid defence.

 

If Agger continues his form and Coates is fantastic I'd drop Carra.

 

Until then, wind it in.

 

Coates needs to come in and hit the ground running so I agree with that bit.

 

But I won't wind it in because I want Liverpool to be the best again. The club is more important than any player.

[Antynwa]

Funny how since the end of 2009 Carragher's form has dipped. Agger couldn't string two games together, Skrtel wasn't much better. Johnson wasn't a reliable right back, and Insua was playing fucking LB and Aurelio was never fit.

 

Do me a favour,

 

go and look in the mirror and repeat that post,

 

you fuckin dope,

 

Now it's every one's fault bar Carragher's.

 

No it's not everyones fault but Carragher, But the simple fact of the matter is a consistent defence is a good defence.

 

Is it any coincidence our best defence over the past decade have had Carra in it?

 

Babbel Henchoz Hyypia Carra

 

Carra Henchoz Hyypia Riise

 

Finnan Hyypia Carra Riise

 

Arbeloa Hyypia Carra Aurelio

 

Since then Carra has played Right-back, Left back, Centre back with multiple combination of injury prone and defence inconsistent in form. Carra is responsible for his own mistakes, but not for the fact we've not had a defence worthy of such a title in a very, very long time.

[Antynwa]

Was he helping Kelly by screaming at him in Utrecht when the ball was still in play?

 

 

 

We were shite in defence the whole time Hodgson was in charge. With and without Carragher. Look at our results and defensive record last season with and without Agger.

 

 

 

To quote my earlier post - if we've got nobody better than Carragher then we need to adjust our expectations of being a top 4 team as he wouldn't get in any other top 6 team and every succesful team needs a solid defence.

 

 

 

Coates needs to come in and hit the ground running so I agree with that bit.

 

But I won't wind it in because I want Liverpool to be the best again. The club is more important than any player.

 

Tough love, sometimes it's needed I'm sure Martin Kelly is fucking gutted.

 

Yes we where shite under Hodgson, but we where equally shite without Carra. You talk about Agger but we has been more prone to error than Carra in the past, his saving grace in that respect is that he can take the ball forward better than Carra.

 

Carragher has been part of a fantastic defence over the past decade. Why can't he be part of a fantastic defence now?

 

Or are we just once more jumping the bandwagon because of two bad mistakes.

 

If coates is good, play coates. Otherwise wind it in, I couldn't give a shit if Carra wouldn't get into any of the top four sides defence, because they have better defenders than Carra. We don't. Plus Carra is getting on, so why would people want him over De Jong, Jones or Mertersacker or whatever.

 

Carragher deserves more respect than this in his twilight years, yes he wasn't the player he was, who can say that at his age? Two bad mistakes one of which was a penalty doesn't disguise what he has brought to the side and what he can bring to the side.

 

If we drop Carra v Spurs and our defence is brilliant I'd hold my hands up, but if you take Carragher out of a defence he's been a near ever present in for over 10 fucking years just like that you're likely to have problems.

 

He's a leader, he's a fantastic defender and he reads the game brilliantly. He doesn't have pace, he's never had pace. He doesn't play the ball from the back much, he's never done that. He's never been a John Terry defender, he's got his own brand of defending which has won this club the European Cup.

[TheHowieLama]

If Agger continues his form and Coates is fantastic I'd drop Carra.

 

Until then, wind it in.

 

Word.

[HolyHank]

The biggest trouble with Carra in the side, is that it's easy for opposition sides to break up our attacking play: Put Carra under pressure and you will sooner or later win the ball in danger zones or get throw ins when Carra smacks it up in the terraces. Especially when the right back isn't to keen to provide an option, like Flanagan against Sunderland or Skrtel yesterday.

 

Stoke had obviously singled out Carra and Adam, and put them under pressure. They benefited from it, as Carra played too many long punts upfield and Adam lost the ball too many times during build up.

 

Carra is still a very good defender though.

[ritchie]

Tough love, sometimes it's needed I'm sure Martin Kelly is fucking gutted.

 

Yes we where shite under Hodgson, but we where equally shite without Carra. You talk about Agger but we has been more prone to error than Carra in the past, his saving grace in that respect is that he can take the ball forward better than Carra.

 

Carragher has been part of a fantastic defence over the past decade. Why can't he be part of a fantastic defence now?

 

Or are we just once more jumping the bandwagon because of two bad mistakes.

 

If coates is good, play coates. Otherwise wind it in, I couldn't give a shit if Carra wouldn't get into any of the top four sides defence, because they have better defenders than Carra. We don't. Plus Carra is getting on, so why would people want him over De Jong, Jones or Mertersacker or whatever.

 

Carragher deserves more respect than this in his twilight years, yes he wasn't the player he was, who can say that at his age? Two bad mistakes one of which was a penalty doesn't disguise what he has brought to the side and what he can bring to the side.

 

If we drop Carra v Spurs and our defence is brilliant I'd hold my hands up, but if you take Carragher out of a defence he's been a near ever present in for over 10 fucking years just like that you're likely to have problems.

 

He's a leader, he's a fantastic defender and he reads the game brilliantly. He doesn't have pace, he's never had pace. He doesn't play the ball from the back much, he's never done that. He's never been a John Terry defender, he's got his own brand of defending which has won this club the European Cup.

 

It's not even about the mistakes it's about the way we play and Carra's inability to defend a high line and distribute the ball effectively from defence. His distrbution was woeful yesterday.

 

You say he wouldn't get into the other top sides as they probably wouldn't want him because of his age, but that's the point. John Terry is 31 and this is probably his last season as a regular starter while Luiz comes through. Carragher turns 34 in a few months. I'm pretty sure Terry won't be playing every week at Chelsea when he's 34.

 

I'm not saying he's not still one our best two CB's because i've no idea how good Coates is. Skrtel is pretty average but is solid enough alongside Agger when Agger's actually fit. So it's a problem of the club that we've allowed the CB situation to stagnate ever since Hyypia left and it's a real weak link of the team. Benitez signed god knows how many young CB's as a means to replacing Hyypia and/or Carra long term and none of them made the grade here, although San Jose looks good in Spain.

 

Maybe £20m would have been better spent on two new CB's than on Henderson.

[withnail71]

Strong decisions have to be made. carra was a superb defender, never blessed with much pace but a great stopper. Unfortunatley, he has become a liability. He is still a great option on the bench, but no way on earth is he worth a first team place week in, week out. I would even move him into coaching, maybe a rugby union kicking coach ?

[Gym Beglin]

If someone else had done what Jamie did yesterday, then Jamie himself would have bawled Jamie out for it.

Not so fucking nice now is it Jamie?

I would have loved Pepe to race out of goal and shout in Jamie's face.

 

And you can fuck off if you don't like it, any of you, fuck right off.

[withnail71]

If someone else had done what Jamie did yesterday, then Jamie himself would have bawled Jamie out for it.

Not so fucking nice now is it Jamie?

I would have loved Pepe to race out of goal and shout in Jamie's face.

 

And you can fuck off if you don't like it, any of you, fuck right off.

 

Correct.

[HolyHank]

If someone else had done what Jamie did yesterday, then Jamie himself would have bawled Jamie out for it.

Not so fucking nice now is it Jamie?

I would have loved Pepe to race out of goal and shout in Jamie's face.

 

And you can fuck off if you don't like it, any of you, fuck right off.

 

...why the hateful tone? It's Jamie Carragher we're talking about, not El Hadji Diouf.

[Evil_Ways]

Complain about Carra all you want, but who should we have played instead ?

 

I know i trust Carra a hell of alot more than Skrtel, for every one mistake Carra makes Skrtel will have made at least two.

 

Coates has only been part of the team for about 3 sessions, should he show himself to be better, he will be played. Kenny will do what is best for this club.

[spider-neil]

...why the hateful tone? It's Jamie Carragher we're talking about, not El Hadji Diouf.

 

I think some resentment has grown towards carra, especially since he ripped into arbeloa which was totally uncalled for.

[HolyHank]

I think some resentment has grown towards carra, especially since he ripped into arbeloa which was totally uncalled for.

 

Strange. Worse things happens at training every day.

[Section_31]

Any kind of disparaging comments aimed at Carra make me a ashamed to be a Liverpool fan. That lad would have played for Liverpool for nothing and has won us more games than any player in that squad save for Gerrard. A true legend. Yeah he's getting older and like all players at his age will make the odd mistake as he loses his pace, and yes he'll need to be eased out of the side in the next couple of years, but people should show some gratitude and respect for the man. A true sporting hero and Liverpool legend in an age of fly-by-night, money grabbing rap-star wannabe good-for-nothing cunts.

[Antynwa]

If someone else had done what Jamie did yesterday, then Jamie himself would have bawled Jamie out for it.

Not so fucking nice now is it Jamie?

I would have loved Pepe to race out of goal and shout in Jamie's face.

 

And you can fuck off if you don't like it, any of you, fuck right off.

 

Jamie doesn't need to be bawled at. He knows what he's done wrong, anyone who knows Jamie have said just how hard it takes it when shit goes wrong.

 

You're relishing in his mistakes, you rush to tell people 'I told you so' You've got the bit between your teeth and seeing one of the greatest servants this club has ever had struggling is filling some fans with delight and a false sense of optimism.

 

His shouting style doesn't sit right with some fans, fans who don't appreciate the brute force element of football. People are offended by Carra for some reason, is it because he's scouse, it is because he's universally loved by those in his home town, that people are scared of that? If where he came from had anything to do with it, why did people start burning SG shirts when SG came out and said he wanted to leave?

 

Show some respect to the European Cup winning and 2nd in the all time appearances for this club, Jamie Carragher.

 

It's not because he's scouse

 

It's because he's a fucking quality player, and has been the bedrock at any success we've had for 10 fucking years. He's a leader, and you don't do what he has, you don't get the world wide recognition he has without being a fantastic footballer. The criticisms of his game, however valid they have been, have always been there but have become more prominent in his older age. We will never have another like Jamie Carragher. So fucking enjoy it whilst it lasts.

 

I don't deny he has 'gotten worse' I don't deny he's not as good as he once was, I don't also believe that he can't be dropped. He can, and he will be if someone comes out who is better than him, but no one is.

 

He's been an ever present in our defence for 10 years, if you take that out, you lose heart, leadership and a fantastic talent. If people want to do that, you do that at your peril. If someone asked Pepe right now would he drop Jamie Carragher, would he fuck.

 

That's the thing, you need continuity, yes the defence needs strengthening and yes if Carra's poor form continues he will need to be dropped. But it's a fucking testament to Carragher that throughout his Liverpool career perhaps since 2003 the notion of dropping him has been both bizarre and unjustified. Only in his age have we really considered the future of Jamie Carragher.

 

Jamie, like all of us wants whats best for Liverpool Football Club, if whats best for Liverpool Football Club is Jamie taking a step back then so be it, and more power to that. Coates could start on Spurs and have an absolute night mare, then what? Do we stick with him? Or do we play Carra? Or do we drop Agger and play Coates and Carra? I can't imagine a better player to marshall Coates into a Liverpool defence than Carra.

 

£10 to the HJC says that Jamie Carragher is starting the first game of the season in August 2012. Quote me on that.

[BenR_]

Carra shouldn't be eased out of the side over the next few years, he should have been eased out over the last couple of years.

He's 34 this January. Do you see Terry or Ferdinand playing every week at that age? They won't because their clubs have already started phasing them out, which we haven't.

 

People need to learn the difference between commenting on a player's ability as a player and commenting on his character\whatever.

I love Carra, always did, one of my favorite players. But then, so is Fowler. Doesn't mean I think we should sign Fowler and play him.

 

To play well, Coates needs to play. Not saying he should have played yesterday obviously, but the point is - will Coates really get a chance to prove himself, considering the fact that Carra is an automatic starter in the side regardless of performances, and some supporters seem to want it to stay that way because we "don't have anyone better"?

 

I think Coates should start against Spurs alongside Agger. We'll see what he's all about, personally I don't know much about him. But he should get his chance and sooner rather than later.

[Paco]

Based purely on form, he's been at fault for the last two goals. The one against Bolton didn't cost us but his tendency to hold or grab forwards sometimes gets punished and it did yesterday and cost us getting anything from stoke.

 

Big decision for kenny coming up. Gi Jo and Skrtel are fit again and we've signed Coates so there is plenty of competition.

 

saying that though, our inability to score from so many chances yesterday is even more worrying. Bellamy, Downing, Adam, Henderson and Suarez all guilty.

[Antynwa]

Carra shouldn't be eased out of the side over the next few years, he should have been eased out over the last couple of years.

He's 34 this January. Do you see Terry or Ferdinand playing every week at that age? They won't because their clubs have already started phasing them out, which we haven't.

 

People need to learn the difference between commenting on a player's ability as a player and commenting on his character\whatever.

I love Carra, always did, one of my favorite players. But then, so is Fowler. Doesn't mean I think we should sign Fowler and play him.

 

To play well, Coates needs to play. Not saying he should have played yesterday obviously, but the point is - will Coates really get a chance to prove himself, considering the fact that Carra is an automatic starter in the side regardless of performances, and some supporters seem to want it to stay that way because we "don't have anyone better"?

 

I think Coates should start against Spurs alongside Agger. We'll see what he's all about, personally I don't know much about him. But he should get his chance and sooner rather than later.

 

Coates will get a fucking chance to prove himself because we fucking bought him.

 

Christ, and hopefully it's alongside Carragher because that will be whats best for us and Coates.

 

His character and ability have got him 2nd on our all time appearance list, if that isn't a barometer for both quality, character and what makes a world class footballer I don't know what is.

 

[BenR_]

Edit: double post.

[Captain]

If not before, Coates will make his bow once Agger breaks down next time.

[dalglish2rush]

Any kind of disparaging comments aimed at Carra make me a ashamed to be a Liverpool fan. That lad would have played for Liverpool for nothing and has won us more games than any player in that squad save for Gerrard. A true legend. Yeah he's getting older and like all players at his age will make the odd mistake as he loses his pace, and yes he'll need to be eased out of the side in the next couple of years, but people should show some gratitude and respect for the man. A true sporting hero and Liverpool legend in an age of fly-by-night, money grabbing rap-star wannabe good-for-nothing cunts.

 

totally agree, i just dont get this anger and hatred towards carra from some people on this site,

some disgracefull comments by many on here today and yesterday.

sky generation knobheads!

[Kevin D]

He was excellent at Chelsea but they're the games he excels in. In games when we need to defend higher up the pitch and keep the pressure on the opposition, I really don't see what he offers. We have to defend deeper with him in the team because he can't get back quick enough. And his distribution is shite.

 

He did well to get that contract because he's on about 90k a week when he's no longer a top 6 player. He should only be used in certain games for me because we need to be looking to dominate games.

 

Name one top 6 team he'd get in?

 

That's a pretty important thing which is seldom discussed. I think that's odd because all summer long there was much pontificating, a lot of it justified, about how the last three managers have misspent, signed players to excessively long contracts and so on.

 

There's also been a lot of awe and praise of FSG for their interviews about value. In that context I'd have thought a discussion about whether our 33-year-old CB should be on such a hefty wage when that type of money should be reserved for the very best players at the club(I wonder how much Suarez is on). If people think that as first choice CB he should be receiving that(I'd imagine comparable roles at our rivals would pay even more) that's fine, but I don't understand why his contract is never brought up when it's a constant source of debate for other players.

 

Just to clarify my position on him. I think he's been a superb defender and I think against Everton and the Mancs in the next month he'll be nothing short of imperious. I do think he's been declining physically for two seasons and I would've actively sought a replacement in the last window(I understand why we didn't make it a priority although we may well have one in Coates or Kelly). I don't think he's capable of playing the high line I'd like to see us employ and I think his limitations in possession are self-evident.

 

Assuming Coates is up to it and Agger can stay fit, we would benefit as a team from that partnership and I would want us to ease Jamie out.

[Antynwa]

His contract is not brought up because he's our 2nd on our all time appearance list, he's one of our best players and a fantastic servant.

 

In other words.

 

Fuck off

[ritchie]

His contract is not brought up because he's our 2nd on our all time appearance list, he's one of our best players and a fantastic servant.

 

In other words.

 

Fuck off

 

God knows what you'd have made of Bob Paisley's ruthlessness when it came to moving players on. "Let them get old on someone else's pitch".

[Antynwa]

God knows what you'd have made of Bob Paisley's ruthlessness when it came to moving players on. "Let them get old on someone else's pitch".

 

You're making out that Carragher playing for Liverpool Football Club is of a detriment to us.

 

When it is anything but.