Would you have Rafa back?

[stringvest]

It's difficult to disagree with the opinion that he'd be divisive; even before last season there were people who clearly disliked the man.

 

However, and you and Goatboy do my head in about this, the idea that the reason this forum was seen as anti-Benitez was because anyone who likes/rates Rafa is a precious drama queen is, how should I put it? An absolute crock of shit. You have some people like that, sure, just as you have some people who hurl untold levels of absue at Rafa even after he's no longer manager of the club. People who take delight in him losing. A big chunk of the reason why this place was seen as anti-benitez was because he got an obscene level of abuse last season and before, was regularly called a cunt, a fact which seems to be regularly ignored by plenty on here when they give their 'balanced views' on the subject.

 

This is what I'm talking about. There was never 'untold or obscene levels of abuse'. I don't think anyone took delight in him losing while he was here - I think you need to look at the posts about Hodgson for that sort of thing. He was not regularly called a cunt - again look at Hodgson posts for that. When the odd dickhead did call him a cunt, they were quite rightly pulled up on it. I certainly pulled people up on it when I saw it. I disliked Benitez, but had he been successful, I would not have been sorry to see him stay. In fact I was arguing that he deserved to be given the chance to rescue the season when lots were calling for his head halfway through.

 

It's about the club though, not the manager. That's why a lot of people on here wanted him gone. They may have not had the same issues with him as a person as I did, but they could see that he was no longer benefitting the club. There are plenty of people who wanted Benitez to stay whose views were equally valid, and who were prepared to debate the merits. There were also lots who were drama queens (on both sides) and it's those that engender the great divide and bitterness.

[Thants]

Dalgish and Coyle, a nod to the past and a nod to the future.

 

Rafa? Well, no. I was one who said he'd be fine at Inter because he would knuckle down and do what had to be done while he had a two year contract. Whilst Inter have certainly not been too helpful, we yet again have the ugly public spectacle of a coach telling the world that his employers have stabbed him in the back and that he personally cannot be held responsible for what's going wrong.

 

He can't help himself. He no longer has any sense of The Collective, and he no longer regards himself as an employee.

 

NESV have little or no currency with Liverpool fans, same as Hicks and Gillett in 2007. When the manager - yes, WHEN - takes them on and appeals directly to the supporters about transfers and Comolli's interference and how little the CEO (if he was Jesus himself) knows about football but he's still making football decisions etc etc, half the support goes one way and half another.

 

It would be carnage, pure and simple.

 

The best coach in the world needed on this occasion to prove he could be trusted and relied upon. He has spectacularly failed, even if Inter do keep him on I suspect it would be to force Rafa to walk same as was going on here in the last (piss poor) season.

 

We need stability. We need unity. Just read these threads and realise how little of that we'd get.

 

Good post.

[bigbak]

If it's the only way to get rid of Roy then yes.

If there's a chance of getting somebody better, then no.

[Warwick Hunt]

I'd have him back provided Pako come with him but it isn't going to happen.

 

Nor do I think he'd work with Commolli.

 

And really I'm only saying this as it would be slightly more bearable than the current regime.

 

You only have to think back to that clip of Stevie shrugging at Torres getting taken off to remember where we were at

 

 

 

If NESV had any real ambitions and were willing to invest I'd much rather they broke the bank to bring in Guardiola with the time, power and funds to back him. A six year plan and a couple hundred million.

[WilliamW]

If it's the only way to get rid of Roy then yes.

If there's a chance of getting somebody better, then no.

More or less this.

[stringvest]

I think he said "the most anti-Benitez", which is clearly correct. Benitez would be divisive, that is also clear, poisonous and self-serving I'd disagree with. Also, I have no clue if he is a nice man or not, I've never met him or worked with him. From what I've seen, I'd say he is an excellent football manager, and leave it at that.

 

I still think he had his time here, it is in the past, and he and and everyone else should move on. Just because we have a useless manager right now, and Benitez seems to be available, doesn't mean that we should try to go back in time. If we want a caretaker (my preference), it should be Dalglish. We need the fans united, it is even a bigger priority than where we finish in the league. Hodgson or Benitez can never do it, a real change is needed.

 

I think he has shown in the past that he can be an excellent manager, but I think increasingly his demons are getting the better of him. Damaging to him (though not financially), damaging to the clubs he manages at, and damaging to the players. I'm starting to think there's an element of compulsion in his behaviour.

[Walton Park]

Benitez isnt coming back. The sooner everyone get this in their heads the better.

[TheResonator]

He can't help himself. He no longer has any sense of The Collective, and he no longer regards himself as an employee.

 

NESV have little or no currency with Liverpool fans, same as Hicks and Gillett in 2007. When the manager - yes, WHEN - takes them on and appeals directly to the supporters about transfers and Comolli's interference and how little the CEO (if he was Jesus himself) knows about football but he's still making football decisions etc etc, half the support goes one way and half another.

 

I think you've been one of the most balanced posters on here of late, but arguments like this don't help to put anything to bed. Why? There's no precedent for this. Damien Commolli is not Rick Parry or Christian Purslow; NESV are not Moratti. Considering these parties to be equivalents and forming a conclusion on that basis fuels conflict rather than bringing it towards any kind of resolution.

 

There are key expectations amongst football fans, once they are met you can judge a manager. 1) The manager has say in bringing in the players he wants. 2) The manager has the funds to bring in the right players to compete. If NESV and Commolli meet these criteria -- and I hope they will -- if the manager is unable to succeed, sacking him has every legitimacy. You wouldn't find nearly as many supporters siding with Benitez against Commolli as you would when he went to war with Parry/Purslow, because Commolli has a track record of signing decent players and has been in football a long time. Supporting Benitez against Parry/Purslow/G&H isn't borne of any fanatical devotion to the man, it's common sense. Supporting him against NESV or Commolli would be a far more difficult decision to make.

 

For the record, I think Benitez would probably get along with NESV far better than G&H or Moores. Why? Moores, as he showed towards the end, was clueless. Hicks and Gillett were unscrupulous cunts who weren't interested in the game, only in lining their own pockets. NESV are smart, driven men, and Benitez is a smart, driven man. They want to succeed for the club and so does he. That could lead to conflict or it could lead to unification -- but the building blocks there are better than those Rafa would have shared with G&H, or Moores.

 

For the record, most of these points are moot because he won't come back now. I voted 'yes', I'd have him back because the other managers who've been mooted I am deeply uncertain on, and I'd like to give him a chance with good backing to prove whether or not he has the mettle to win the premiership. However, whether this would be - in reality - a good decision for the parties involved is a far more complex question.

 

For a start, as much as I'd like Benitez back, I think he could maybe do with some time away from football. I think that he almost certainly has enemies in the dressing room from his last spell as manager, and dealing with that could be problematic. If he was brought back on a temporary basis, he would be difficult to replace due to fan backing (same as Dalglish, Hughton) if the managers wanted to bring in a younger manager in due time. There is also the fact that many supporters wouldn't want to see him back and nor would the press, and the knives would be out from day one.

 

All of these negative points mean that, if it was Benitez or Ancelotti, obviously I would take Carlo. But a lot of the names being chucked around don't fill me with confidence: Coyle, Villas-Boas, etc. We are at our lowest ebb in eons at the moment and we need someone who will galvanise the squad, and can operate under pressure with high expectations. Deschamps could be a good shout but I don't think we'll get him until the summer.

 

Benitez isn't my number one choice and his return here would precipitate a fair few issues -- but he's a good coach and he understands the club. I think that if he could integrate into the management structure his return might work for us.

[waiting game]

I think Rafa is a top fella, but id urge him to just have a rest! Give footy a break for a bit. Its been a stressful few years for him (as well as us) and i think the fella just needs to recharge his battery's.

 

Rafa is a good man but surely fighting everyone around him on a politically charged rampage has taken it out of him.

 

I'm glad your home Rafa, but just take up golf or something mate, chill with the family and enjoy your payoff. Merry Christmas.

[Major Tom]

Agree.

 

By the way, I voted yes. I didnt want Woy in the first place.

 

Me either. But I wanted Rafa gone also. Neither of them are the answer unless of course the question is:

 

"Do you want a manager who will continually blame anyone but himself for his considerable failings?"

Edited December 22, 2010 by Major Tom

[overthe]

I think he has shown in the past that he can be an excellent manager, but I think increasingly his demons are getting the better of him. Damaging to him (though not financially), damaging to the clubs he manages at, and damaging to the players. I'm starting to think there's an element of compulsion in his behaviour.

 

You could be right but I prefer to look at it a different way.

 

I see it as he doesn't suffer fools and doesn't want to work for a club with no real backing. Yeah, he needs to be able to put up and shut up i suppose but part of me likes the way he feels the need to be working in part of something that can work long time with everyone moving forward.

 

anyway, I say yes. I want him back. I want him to be given support and I want the management to treat him as more important than how the players feel etc.

[goatboy59]

I think you've been one of the most balanced posters on here of late, but arguments like this don't help to put anything to bed. Why? There's no precedent for this. Damien Commolli is not Rick Parry or Christian Purslow; NESV are not Moratti. Considering these parties to be equivalents and forming a conclusion on that basis fuels conflict rather than bringing it towards any kind of resolution.

 

 

Cheers.

 

Once bitten, twice shy. Twice bitten?

 

I thought Rafa would knuckle down for Inter, I was completely wrong. You think he'll knuckle down for Comolli and co.

 

Rafa took on Valencia, took on Parry, took on Hicks and Gillett, took on Purslow, took on Broughton, took on Moratti.

 

But he won't take on Henry and Weiner.

 

I think you have to accept that the evidence points in one direction rather strongly.

 

Like you and others I want him to have a break and realise when and where he was at his strongest - probably Valencia - and realise why that was.

 

Part. Of. A. Team.

 

And if he still doesn't get it, then Robert De Niro standing behind him with a baseball bat!

[stringvest]

You could be right but I prefer to look at it a different way.

 

I see it as he doesn't suffer fools and doesn't want to work for a club with no real backing. Yeah, he needs to be able to put up and shut up i suppose but part of me likes the way he feels the need to be working in part of something that can work long time with everyone moving forward.

 

anyway, I say yes. I want him back. I want him to be given support and I want the management to treat him as more important than how the players feel etc.

 

fair enough, I don't see it like that, but I can see why you do.

[Barzini]

I voted yes as I'd frankly rather have anyone than the current manager.

 

He wouldn't be my first choice however, even though I didn't want him to leave in the first place. I think we should be looking at a young, hungry manager who will at least try to get us playing some attacking football. I've been impressed with Deschamps and wouldn't mind us taking a punt on him.

 

I think we're at a stage where a new manager will need time and full backing from the fans. Benitez divides the fanbase too much and wouldn't bring the stability that we need while we try and dig ourselves out of the situation we're in now.

[TheResonator]

 

I thought Rafa would knuckle down for Inter, I was completely wrong. You think he'll knuckle down for Comolli and co.

 

Rafa took on Valencia, took on Parry, took on Hicks and Gillett, took on Purslow, took on Broughton, took on Moratti.

 

But he won't take on Henry and Weiner.

 

I think you have to accept that the evidence points in one direction rather strongly.

 

I agree he has a history as a fighter. But if you look at the people he's fought with, there's Valencia with their massive debt and poor ownership; Parry (speaks for itself); H&G (speaks for itself); Christian 'Championship Manager' Purslow... Broughton? I wasn't aware of any beef with Broughton, to be fair, maybe you can explain what that was about?

 

Moratti - well Moratti is the most difficult one, because I think he might have known what he was getting with Moratti, and known what the expectations were. At the same time, I look at the Inter team, and it does need investment -- but I don't think that excuses their position in the league, so there are pros and cons there.

 

I do 'think' he'd knuckle down for Commolli and co., but I accept I might be wrong. It would be edifying to know for sure, though, either way.

[overthe]

I voted yes as I'd frankly rather have anyone than the current manager.

 

He wouldn't be my first choice however, even though I didn't want him to leave in the first place. I think we should be looking at a young, hungry manager who will at least try to get us playing some attacking football. I've been impressed with Deschamps and wouldn't mind us taking a punt on him.

 

I think we're at a stage where a new manager will need time and full backing from the fans. Benitez divides the fanbase too much and wouldn't bring the stability that we need while we try and dig ourselves out of the situation we're in now.

 

yeah, as a fan of Rafa, the split fans part is the bit that worries me.

 

Uniting the supporters could be one of the most important aspects of the next managerial choice in some ways.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I like this guy The Resanator. Good work fella. Good poster. Load of eye Aids on this thread though, and any other Rafa thread as well.

[usernameunknown]

Over this piece of shite that is currently ruining our club certainly, but ideally no, need something fresh.

[Delmar]

I think he has shown in the past that he can be an excellent manager, but I think increasingly his demons are getting the better of him. Damaging to him (though not financially), damaging to the clubs he manages at, and damaging to the players. I'm starting to think there's an element of compulsion in his behaviour.

 

I agree about the compulsion, but I think it's just misdirected, it seems to me he is a bit lost. I guess we're saying the same thing with a bit different slant...

 

Also, it's impossible to be at the top of your profession without compulsion, an absolute need to be there. I'm OK at my work, at times good, but I have no compulsion to be at the very top. I'd rather be at the golf course...

[Major Tom]

I genuinely can't comprehend that 60% of those who voted would want Rafa back. I can most definitely comprehend he is a better manager than Hodgson, because he obviously is, but other than that, I am mystified.

 

It's all about opinions of course but this particular view has me stumped.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Simple answer, no.

[Guest PurpleNose]

I genuinely can't comprehend that 60% of those who voted would want Rafa back. I can most definitely comprehend he is a better manager than Hodgson, because he obviously is, but other than that, I am mystified.

 

It's all about opinions of course but this particular view has me stumped.

 

So why are you mystified?

[Gym Beglin]

No fuckin way!

 

I want us to win things, I want us to have players with ability, skill and pace going forward, playes who are trusted to make things happen by themselves just because they have the fali and ability to do so.

 

I want a manager who is more interested in winning the game and create chances when we are up against inferior teams in the league instead of one who wants us to control the game.

 

Rafa can actually fuck off for all I care and that also goes for the muppets who pray for his return, fuckin mental cases.

 

 

*TUMBLEWEED*

[Major Tom]

So why are you mystified?

 

I guess because of the way I read the question. It seemed more of a vote of confidence in Benitez than anything to do with Hodgson.

 

And I, personally, have no confidence in Benitez whatsoever.

[l_fidler]

If it was only a choice betweem Hodgeson or Benitz, then i'd let him have another go, cos i can't stand Hodgeson. But he'd only be another short term replacement which isn't what we need.