Would you have Rafa back?

[ronnie38]

Nope, because I'm not getting into a debate about Rafa's previous reign on this thread. These debates never get anywhere IMO, and it's irrelevant to the reason, above any other, why I don't think he should come back now.

 

Was just after your opinion on what you didn't agree with. Fair enough your not the only one that doesn't want to explain what they find wrong with it. Weird that.

[goatboy59]

He could end up with two highly unlikely allies.

 

Imagine John Henry calling up his takeover buds because (and I quote) "I asked that Tomkins guy and he just kept zoning out, like JD in Scrubs, so what do you two make of this Rafa guy?"

 

MB & CP "No, never, Avoid like the plague, worst manager ever"

 

JH: "Okay pallies, that's good enough for me, I trust your judgement. Say, on the subject of managers, who the hell appointed this Hodgson cheeseball?"

 

MB & CP: various coughs splutters, and "hey is that the time well I've got an airline to not run" etc

 

 

I'm well worried...

[Jack the Sipper]

Was just after your opinion on what you didn't agree with. Fair enough your not the only one that doesn't want to explain what they find wrong with it. Weird that.

 

I've already said why I don't want to debate it - it detracts from the reason I gave as to why I don't want him back. Even if you convinced me that Rafa was superb the last time around, it wouldn't change anything now.

 

Now, can someone tell me why they believe Rafa could operate successfully under our new regime given Rafa's constant demands for more power throughout his career, and the owners stated intention to limit a managers power? Because, if they can't, then how can they conclude that he should come back now?

[Rushies tash]

We've gone from a manager for whom finishing 7th was seen a disappointment, to one who would see that as a success. Of course, I'd rather not finish 7th, but I'd have more faith in Rafa achieving that than Roy. Then again, I'd rather have a manager who went all out for 1st by playing for a win at places like Stoke, which neither would do.

[Il Fenomeno]

Some of the shite coming out of you lot is hilarious !!

 

Oh fuck off Walter.

[Benitaur]

So Mourihno joins a club , wins the League or Champions League and then decides ''oh I think they have sussed me out'' and then joins another top club.

 

Get a fucking grip !!

 

Some of the shite coming out of you lot is hilarious !!

 

He's not coming back so get over it !

Or you could go and support the next team he manages because after all we dont deserve him coz he needs a club to love him and give him what he wants doesnt he. He deserves better than us.**smallest violin in the world playing**

A lot of peoples priorites are with Rafa Benitez and not Liverpool Football Club and its quite embarrassing.

 

Get a grip !!!!

 

Lol, for 6 years

 

1) We didn't have a top 4 budget for transfers

2) We didn't have a top 4 board

3) We didn't have a top 4 squad (in terms of worth)

4) We did have a top 2-3 manager

 

Sure the 12th man. Only seems to show up for great European nights these days. And great European nights are a thing of the past now.

 

Go figure out why things are not working this season

 

All these talk about a manager we can all get behind. Nice, but no one in sight. No one else besides Rafa and Mourinho with the calibre and pedigree that we can all at least agree is a winner

 

Even Rijkaard and if by some bizarre reason Guardiola becomes available, the suspicion is that its the system at Barca, not just the coaches that is the reason of their success

 

While with managers like Rafa or Mourinho (or Fergie), it is clearly the manager that brought the success.

[coachpotato]

Today I voted no, after Rafa has had some time out of club football and also possibly a chance to refocus, I might vote yes.

 

I think he's a good coach, one of the best, but a lousy politician and his stubborn streak does him no favours at times.

 

Going back rarely works unfortunately.

[Walton Park]

I will judge any manager on winning trophies whatever that trophy is, and he failed to win a tap in 4 and that is why I think he should of gone.

 

Any future manager will be judged the same.

[Benitaur]

I've already said why I don't want to debate it - it detracts from the reason I gave as to why I don't want him back. Even if you convinced me that Rafa was superb the last time around, it wouldn't change anything now.

 

Now, can someone tell me why they believe Rafa could operate successfully under our new regime given Rafa's constant demands for more power throughout his career, and the owners stated intention to limit a managers power? Because, if they can't, then how can they conclude that he should come back now?

 

He wants the backing of the board to support his VISION, not simply he wants to be in charge. He's asking for what Arsenal gave Wenger, or the Mancs gave Fergie, or even Harry is given at Tottenham and everywhere he has gone. You know, backing as if expected to win trophies?

 

His vision such as:

1) Buying top young players when available (like Villa, Alves, Ramos etc)

2) Developing the youth to build players of the future first squad

3) Buying players who fit his style of play, ie fast, powerful, skillful and able to play in multiple positions (total football)

 

Is it so disagreeable?

[billypilgrimnz]

Subsequent managers must be constantly compared to Rafa because he was the last manager who won major trophies and got us challenging

 

No, there is no "must". This is the myth-making we were talking about. Managers should be compared to the performances they get out of their team. That is all.

 

As for working relationships, if the club cannot provide at least a 20 mil budget every season to your manager, you deserve not to win anything

 

Well, aren't you the football romantic? You don't deserve to win anything unless you spend over a specific amount? What an interesting view on the game this is.

 

Rafa has never asked for City or Chelsea budgets. Just a decent 15-20 mil a season budget. If he wants more, he will have to sell to buy. I think thats fair.

 

So why are we judging Roy so quickly then, considering he hasn't had anything like this either? I mean, he's had ONE transfer window. Could it be because we are able to judge managers on things other than their chequebook? Roy should be out because it is obvious his style of play is not suited to a team looking to challenge for the title, and his choice of players may be a little suspect.

 

Why aren't we allowed to discuss Rafa in the same light? For his supporters, it always comes back to the money, but they will then go and criticize other managers without ever once considering the money they have had to spend. I think I have been very fair in my reasons why Rafa should not come back here, based on this working relationships and way of setting out the team. His supporters tend to take it as written that Rafa is some demi-God tactically who is simply held back by mortal money-men.

 

Added to this, you have explicitly said we should be comparing all prospective managers to Rafa because he won the Champions League. Yet he won that with a very weak squad, as I think we all admit. So if all the lack of success since then is down to monetary issues, and Rafa can't be expected to do well without a constant influx of players, then all this argument does is make his success in Istanbul seem more and more like a glorious fluke. Is that how you really want to argue it? (I wouldn't BTW)

 

So far he has had a negative budget for the previous 2 seasons, and zero at Inter. And he is expected to in trophies?

 

He's expected to challenge, and to not do mind-boggling awful things like get into a fight over bringing in friggin Gareth Barry at the expense of someone who was long known to the the heart of our side, Alonso.

 

Gareth Barry.

 

As for relationship with the rest of the club, if not mistaken, besides the board and conolli, the rest are still Rafa's staff. Why would there be a relationship issue?

 

You mean, apart from the actual people that Rafa has to answer to, the very same type of people that he has a documented history of falling out with? Why would you ignore this?

 

And of course a lot of Rafa's people are still there, because he only left 6 months ago. Seems a bit strange to use Rafa's own appointments as a reason why Rafa is the best man for the job.

 

Maybe you are talking about the players? Which top manager ie Capello, Rafa etc isn't cold towards their players?

 

Only the lazy players like Babel enjoy working under a kindly old uncle who doesn't put any pressure on the poor things.

 

To tell you the truth, the players don't come into it. They are expected to do their best for whatever manager they have in front of them. Couldn't care less if Rafa is cold, or warm, or friggin going round to the player's houses on weekends and cleaning out their fireplaces.

 

 

Again, besides the board and the director of football, all the rest are his staff, and he restructured the club from bottom up.

 

And this restructuring is without precedent in Rafa's career, and thus we have no idea whether it is even a good thing. What proof do we have that Rafa's philosophy of how a club should be run is any good? We have none, except this sweet belief from his supporters that if Rafa did it, it must be fucking brilliant and thus must be supported at all costs.

 

Well, why are we allowing our first team manager to be controlling every aspect of the club in the first place? Managers come and go, and to me it is a huge mistake to put the entire club in the hands of a single man, especially when that man should be accountable for what goes on on the pitch first and foremost. It is the owners job to run the club. If Rafa wants to get into club building, he needs a new job title and give up the manager thing.

 

As for his tactics, its better than Wenger. And definitely better than any other British manager. The problem isn't tactics. The problem is quality of players

 

If Wenger had a better keeper and better defenders, his tactics would be fine. He is the perfect example of quality of players being an issue - but that's his fault for not buying them. So I'm not sure why you single him out. Is it because you don't like all that passing?

 

Rafa is overrated tactically. This is my opinion, of course, but I don't think he has the flexibility of a truly great tactician. And I think his reliance on tactics (successful or not) can be a hindrance in many league games, because I don't think many opposing teams necessarily fit a mold that can be disassembled tactically - only with skill and application. I mean, you only need to see Bale against Inter to see that Rafa is more than capable of fucking up his tactics.

 

As for managers that are better options. Name me ONE that:

1) will take the job knowing they cannot compete financially

2) has the credentials for the job

 

Depends what you mean by credentials. Because according to your argument above, the credentials are:

 

(a) has already won something with the club

(b) has a lot of staff already at the club

 

No, you aren't going to find many other managers matching that, I agree. I would like to see a youngish manager who hasn't had a big club yet, with a positive philosophy to the game and a proven track record of getting the best out of his players, even if on a limited budget. We are caught in the trap of only considering huge names that have succeeded at clubs with good expenditure relative to the rest of their leagues. I would like to see us actually make a fresh start. Don't ask me who that is, because I don't watch enough non-Liverpool games to have a clue. But if I was the owner, that's who I would be looking for.

 

No, my argument is that Rafa has won with us period. Other young managers mentioned haven't won anything of note elsewhere, so what makes you think they would win anything with us? And the managers who DO have the credentials are retiring or Mourinho.

 

But by your very argument, the reason why Rafa didn't win anything in his last four seasons here was a lack of quality players. That's EXACTLY what you said. So why don't we give the same allowance for younger managers at smaller clubs who have next to no spending power at all, but who still might have excellent managerial skills without the players to implement them?

 

No, we have to run back to the bosom of someone we have already tried because we won a trophy with him with a team he didn't build, and then support him with lots of money because he can only win if he gets to build his own team.....man, my head hurts.

 

 

Nope, completely wrong.

 

Um?

[billypilgrimnz]

His vision such as:

1) Buying top young players when available (like Villa, Alves, Ramos etc)

2) Developing the youth to build players of the future first squad

3) Buying players who fit his style of play, ie fast, powerful, skillful and able to play in multiple positions (total football)

 

No offense, but this "vision" could well describe 90% of all managers who have ever lived.

[2pak]

I just can't wait until we have a manager who isn't Rafa or Roy, and this type of crap can cease.

 

Unfortunately it never will. That would defy the very definition of obsession.

[Major Tom]

His vision such as:

1) Buying top young players when available (like Villa, Alves, Ramos etc)

2) Developing the youth to build players of the future first squad

3) Buying players who fit his style of play, ie fast, powerful, skillful and able to play in multiple positions (total football)

 

Is it so disagreeable?

 

No it's not.

 

Except if that's his vision (and you have no idea if it is or not), he failed on all three fronts. And no doubt people will apportion the blame elsewhere.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this is all a pisstake. People are treating Benitez as some sort of messiah. He's a good football manager who managed Liverpool and came up wanting. And that's the long and short of it.

[Liverpool lad]

No it's not.

 

Except if that's his vision (and you have no idea if it is or not), he failed on all three fronts.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this is all a pisstake. People are treating Benitez as some sort of messiah. He's a good football manager who managed Liverpool and came up wanting. And that's the long and short of it.

 

Best post on this thread

[billypilgrimnz]

Unfortunately it never will. That would defy the very definition of obsession.

 

Tell me about it. I just spent 30 minutes typing out a reply covering stuff I have mention 1 million times before. :)

 

Anyway, hope Roy holds on long enough for Rafa to find a job somewhere else.

[billypilgrimnz]

Sometimes I wonder if this is all a pisstake. People are treating Benitez as some sort of messiah. He's a good football manager who managed Liverpool and came up wanting. And that's the long and short of it.

 

That's the crux of it. All these people saying he needs to come back so he can finish restructuring the club, as if it is a given that what Rafa wants is automatically genius. We have it all ass-backward. We have fans seriously considering getting a manager back so he can finish his job of acting like the owner, so that sometime in the future, he can be a better manager.

[dirk grout]

I will judge any manager on winning trophies whatever that trophy is, and he failed to win a tap in 4 and that is why I think he should of gone.

 

Any future manager will be judged the same.

 

I take it you think arsenal should sack wenger.

[Chinandeler Bong]

No it's not.

 

Except if that's his vision (and you have no idea if it is or not), he failed on all three fronts. And no doubt people will apportion the blame elsewhere.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this is all a pisstake. People are treating Benitez as some sort of messiah. He's a good football manager who managed Liverpool and came up wanting. And that's the long and short of it.

 

Ah but he didnt have the right backing, thats what the Rafalution will say.

[cochcaer]

No fuckin way!

 

I want us to win things,

 

I want us to win the domestic league so it's a no from me also.

 

Simon?

[Torvald Utne]

Banners declaring their support adorned a fence outside his house and one online poll had 65% of respondents expressing their desire to see Benitez back at the helm.

 

 

Ha!

[Jack the Sipper]

He wants the backing of the board to support his VISION, not simply he wants to be in charge. He's asking for what Arsenal gave Wenger, or the Mancs gave Fergie, or even Harry is given at Tottenham and everywhere he has gone. You know, backing as if expected to win trophies?

 

His vision such as:

1) Buying top young players when available (like Villa, Alves, Ramos etc)

2) Developing the youth to build players of the future first squad

3) Buying players who fit his style of play, ie fast, powerful, skillful and able to play in multiple positions (total football)

 

Is it so disagreeable?

 

It's disagreeable to the owners and their management structure, and, unless we campaign to get shot of them and get in some new owners who'd accomodate Rafa's 'vision', that's all that matters in the final analysis.

 

Besides, I very much doubt there's a manager in history who's been given everything he wanted; it's just that, more often than not, we don't hear about it because they keep it in-house and get on with their job.

[Benitaur]

No it's not.

 

Except if that's his vision (and you have no idea if it is or not), he failed on all three fronts. And no doubt people will apportion the blame elsewhere.

 

Sometimes I wonder if this is all a pisstake. People are treating Benitez as some sort of messiah. He's a good football manager who managed Liverpool and came up wanting. And that's the long and short of it.

 

Failed?

 

You mean like:

 

1) Buying Torres, Reina, Alonso and Mascherano?

2) You mean by FINALLY taking over the academy and putting in the Barcelona coaches?

3) You mean when he on rare occasions gets the money, he actually buys our best keeper since Clemence, and our best striker since Rush?

 

Thats what he wanted as support, and how hard he found to get it. And even so, didn't happen very often, did it?

 

Imagine if he actually was supported in the final 2 seasons here, or at Inter. What a difference that would have made eh?

[billypilgrimnz]

Ah but he didnt have the right backing, thats what the Rafalution will say.

 

And yet, at Inter, where Rafa had a wishlist of players who weren't bought for him, who was on it from Liverpool?

 

Mascherano

Kuyt

Lucas

 

(a) This proves he was getting at least some of the players he wanted for his style of play

(b) Those players are kind of limited in many crucial ways

[VladimirIlyich]

I want Houllier back because a) he could be out of a job soon and b) he won more trophies than Rafa!

 

Yes im taking the piss but i just thought i'd mention a manager other than Roy or Rafa for a change.

[redsfan]

I have not read all the pages but sticking my nose in whilst the thought of having Rafa back is great we need to look at the bigger picture.

 

Would Benitez work with less power than he had when here? He hated the fact he did not have control, now that Comolli is here I cannot see him complying to being just a coach.

 

Secondly NESV i do not think will want stuck a powerful guy in. Let me explain, when we had the 2 other dickheads in, how powerful was our support for Rafa (we saved him at least twice from the sack because we caused a massive fuss about it). Rafa had so much support from us (rightly so)under the other 2. Now whilst NESV have been brilliant and spot on up to now, surely they must look at Rafa's reign and think 'do we really want a guy like this in the club', i dont think they want a guy telling THEM how to run there job which i kind of have a feeling the Rafa would do because thats how he works. I could be totally wrong but Rafa and NESV are to powerhouses in their own rights whilst Hicks and Gillett were amateurs. Rafa could spout shit off about them and we would back him up no end. I cant see NESV wanting to take on such for manager and risk being criticised which is what you can get from Rafa.

 

Thirdly, is it not time for a new regime altogether we really havent moved on from Rafa under Roy in footballing terms. I am kinda thinking towards the idea of a young coach that seems to be able to work under our new system under Comolli and whole new tactics (Deschamps springs to mind).

 

Suppose what am trying to say is I think (personally speaking) it would be best if we didnt go back to Rafa, but neither am I ruling it out and if he ever did he would have my full backing and no doubt so many others would do.