English players and foriegn players

[Guest simon]

always wondered about this.. Why is it thousands of foreign players move to foreign countries even youngsters but English players don well some do but its rare. Always confused me that even youngsters are the same. England clearly has a great a ray of talent but no ones going for them other than English clubs. Even we take or poach youngsters from other countries they do but not England. Is there some rule that stops it?

[Guest PurpleNose]

They're really fucking stupid.

[Delmar]

always wondered about this.. Why is it thousands of foreign players move to foreign countries even youngsters but English players don well some do but its rare. Always confused me that even youngsters are the same. England clearly has a great a ray of talent but no ones going for them other than English clubs. Even we take or poach youngsters from other countries they do but not England. Is there some rule that stops it?

 

Great ray of talent? Debatable. Overall, I think it's a cultural thing, kids in other countries learn several languages (English often being one of them) and are more capable of handling different situations, adapting to life in general in new countries. Just think about how lost Owen was in Madrid. And he was a proven pro at the time. It is way harder for kids...

[Trumo]

I have put what I think about this on the forum before:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/92418-england-vs-algeria-14.html#post2313912

 

Here's that email. I sent it on 3rd April 2008, and I remember seeing it published in FourFourTwo magazine within 3 months or so. They had edited it a bit, perhaps to correct syntax and shorten it.

 

I have written something similar on FF threads aswell.

 

---------------------------------------------

Just glanced at your "100 Greatest Foreign Players" feature, and the influence they have had on the domestic game in England. At the time of writing there are still 4 English teams in the Champions League, and last year 3 of the 4 were semi-finalists. Other English clubs have done fairly well in the UEFA Cup in recent years also.

 

Some people are putting the success down to the foreign players, and pointing to England's failure to qualify for Euro 2008 to back this up. The implication being that English players are not good enough. I don't believe this to be the case, and think this is more about inexperience in European competition, and players not wanting to expand their horizons by leaving their comfort zone. Only Beckham and Hargreaves from the current England squad have had success abroad, whereas Owen and Woodgate struggled to settle.

 

Have a look at any "Boy's A Bit Special" articles, and most of these players' stated ambition is to be a Premiership footballer within the next few years. Fair enough, but this appears the be-all-and-end-all. These players are willing to fight relegation battles in the Premiership, at best, all the while earning good money, instead of considering moving to another country with a less competitive league, but with clubs that are fighting for domestic trophies, and competing in Europe on a regular basis.

 

Are foreign clubs simply not interested in young English players? Are they really considered not good enough? Are the players reluctant to consider leaving their comfort zones to better their career? Are the players just after a good payday, therefore pricing themselves out of a move?

 

My view is that if a young player (say a reserve at one of the bigger clubs) is looking to move on, and has a choice between say Birmingham or Fulham (no offence!) in the Premiership, or maybe the likes of say Bordeaux, Feyenoord, Club Brugge or Panathinaikos (strong clubs in lesser leagues abroad, most likely on lower pay), they really should consider moving abroad. I believe it is more likely the player will develop quicker and become better through necessity. This is of course all hypothetical, but the player's development could really benefit the England set-up, and the player would most likely attract attention from a European giant if he is doing well, with all that entails.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/92816-carra.html#post2338480

 

How many of them would be better off by leaving the Premier League? Instead of scrapping around in relegation battles, and getting zero European experience, they should jump at the chance of going abroad and developing with a new culture, if clubs in say, France, Holland, Portugal, Greece or Turkey come in for them. They won't earn the same money of course, but they WILL be forced to improve as players. A good example is Matt Derbyshire at Olympiakos, who has experience of foreign culture, as well as winning trophies and competing in Europe. If the player goes abroad and does well, then a top club from the big leagues could get interested, and the player would no doubt get the financial rewards they initially miss out on.

 

THAT is why so many smaller countries than England give England so many problems at international level, and a big factor as to why England never win anything of note.

 

I realise none of this has anything to do with Carra!

[Phoenix]

In terms of technique they are behind their counterparts in other parts of Europe.

 

Unwilling/unable to learn new languages and culture to move abroad.

[Original202]

I'm generalising here, but the English really don't like leaving their comfort zone. Even when people go on holiday, they go to a place that is full of English speakers, English food and fellow English people.

 

Unless massive money was on offer most English players wouldn't be interested. Though I think a lot of average English players would be better off in Spain on a lower wage due to the difference in tax rates.

[RobbieOR]

I'm generalising here, but the English really don't like leaving their comfort zone. Even when people go on holiday, they go to a place that is full of English speakers, English food and fellow English people.

 

Unless massive money was on offer most English players wouldn't be interested. Though I think a lot of average English players would be better off in Spain on a lower wage due to the difference in tax rates.

 

Yep, thats spot on. You could also say thats due to a little Englander view of 'We have the best League in the world'.

 

Also, just on that article that Trumo wrote, I think the line about Woodgate settling wasnt true, he got on well with his team mates and would go out for a beer with them and he really liked the life over there but his career was just blighted by injury and bad luck. Whereas, Owen wouldnt socialise with the players at all, he wouldnt stay back after training and play cards or pool with them, he'd immediately drive to the airport and buy his English newspaper. There was a massive difference between the two of them.

[PaulMcC]

English players are shit. And thick.

 

You get the odd class one but the majority have shit technique, read the Sun or Daily Star, and can't control the ball.

[Scott_M]

Because we pay better and as a nation, we're to lazy to learn other languages.

[Dicko]

In this country kids are taught to win before they are taught to play.

It's as simple as that.

[Dracco]

Because english league is the best, most attractive and richest.

 

When Italian league was considered top in the world you could hardly find italian player playin abroad. Also Spanish players in their prime don´t usually go abroad.

 

And about youngsters it´s hardy to me to discuss as I don´t live in England. But probably it´s a mix of quality academies over here and vision of better money.

[WaltonRed]

xenophobia innit

[G Richards]

I think there are several reasons. A big one is obviously cultural, as many people from England just don't travel as well. We tend to not speak other languages very much and are comfortable with what we know.

 

Looking into this further I also think there is a talent issue. English players tend to not be very skilful or subtle in their approach to the game, and so the skills they have might see them earn a good living playing in England, but perhaps not so much in another, more technical league.

 

The English players that do seem to have a good touch and would do well in other leagues are, for the most part, already playing at top English clubs. And since there is so much money in the English game there is now no great financial advantage to playing in Spain or Italy or wherever.

 

Years ago you would have top players like Rush going to Juventus, or Lineker and Hughes to Barcelona, or Francis to Sampdoria, or Keegan to Hamburg. By and large they all went because they could earn much more than they could earn by playing at the top level in England. That just is no longer the case, and so players tend to stay put.

[Jonny83]

I'd say there's a geographical aspect to it as well, especially in comparison to mainland Europeans. For them "going abroad" can mean a few hours drive, for people from Great Britain it always involves either flying or some sort of boat/ferry. OK there's the tunnel now but that's a relatively recent development in the grand scheme of things. I just mean that for Brits going abroad even to the nearest country subconsciously seems more of an effort than it is for a mainland European.

 

Probably not as significant as the issues of language laziness and the general quality of our footballers though.

 

I do remember when I was growing up we had a fair few players abroad in top leagues, although I think a lot of that might have been down to the Euro ban that was just coming to an end as I was getting into the game.

[Guest San Don]

Most young english players just dont have the technique required in slower, more technical leagues. As a nation, we also aint the best a learning a new language.

 

But it isnt just young or english players who dont play abraod. Even Rushie who was absolutely devasting in front of goal didnt settle in Turin. Same with Jimmy Greaves. Im not certain how long John Charles played in Italy either but all in all, most are just for one season.

[RobbieOR]

Greaves scored 9 goals in 12 games for Milan. He didnt like the culture over there I dont think but he would have been devastating had he stayed. He liked a drink did Greaves, that may have been a factor. Totally different culture.

[VladimirIlyich]

English players are shit. And thick.

 

You get the odd class one but the majority have shit technique, look at pictures in the S*n or Daily Star, and can't control the ball.

 

Agree totally.

[zigackly]

POMO.

[Dicko]

POMO.

 

In one.

[The Party Boy]

Yep, thats spot on. You could also say thats due to a little Englander view of 'We have the best League in the world'.

 

Also, just on that article that Trumo wrote, I think the line about Woodgate settling wasnt true, he got on well with his team mates and would go out for a beer with them and he really liked the life over there but his career was just blighted by injury and bad luck. Whereas, Owen wouldnt socialise with the players at all, he wouldnt stay back after training and play cards or pool with them, he'd immediately drive to the airport and buy his English newspaper. There was a massive difference between the two of them.

 

I can't believe Owen used to do that every day, what a massive blert.

[Section_31]

A lot of the countries where these lads come from don't have decent academy setups and I don't think most of them would come here if they had the choice. Even if you're from somewhere like Portugal, you're not going to have the same chances in the game, support or training and lifestyle over there as you will at a top premiership side here. There's just no need for a young English lad with anything approaching ability to move abroad unless they've been fucked off by every decent club over here.

[Guest The Chimp]

My own opinion is that it's got little to do with xenophobia, foreign language, foreign food, settling in etc. We hear this all the time about the English but how many people do you know who've actually fucked off abroad, or have gone travelling? How many of your mates do you know who would happily fuck off if there was the chance? Players are selfish, greedy, money-orientated individuals generally. If there were rich picking to be had elsewhere, they'd be off faster than the Chimp to a free banana convention. They're just paid stupid amounts of money here for being distinctly mediocre, and see more chance of securing a place in the Premiership if they're playing in England than abroad. That's why (I reckon) they stay in Blighty.

[Unrighteous]

Most young english players just dont have the technique required in slower, more technical leagues. As a nation, we also aint the best a learning a new language.

 

But it isnt just young or english players who dont play abraod. Even Rushie who was absolutely devasting in front of goal didnt settle in Turin. Same with Jimmy Greaves. Im not certain how long John Charles played in Italy either but all in all, most are just for one season.

 

All this is correct.

[VladimirIlyich]

Most young english players just dont have the technique required in slower, more technical leagues. As a nation, we also aint the best a learning a new language.

 

But it isnt just young or english players who dont play abraod. Even Rushie who was absolutely devasting in front of goal didnt settle in Turin. Same with Jimmy Greaves. Im not certain how long John Charles played in Italy either but all in all, most are just for one season.

 

John Charles is the exception to the rule,5 seasons and 150 goals for Juventus and a season at Roma too.

He is still idolised in Turin and is one of,or even the most successful british player to go overseas.

I think the fact that Rushie was given a decent reception by the fans was in part due to the welsh connection with John Charles being a hero there.

[Wor Horse]

xenophobia innit

 

Jesus Christ...