Jamie Carragher and the tits who think he has too much power.

[dirty_sanchez]

I've got plenty of time for Carra and the lad has built up more than enough credit with the fans over the past decade or so. He will rightly go down as a legend, and it just so happens that the greatest night in our history was his finest hour. He's given the club fantastic service and no one can ever say he's ever left anything on the pitch at the end of a match. His passion and effort has been unmatched.

 

From what I can see, there are two issues which he is getting stick on.

 

The first is his playing ability. Carra is now the wrong side of 30, it is inevitable that his fitness and capabilities will gradually diminish. That's not unique to Carra, it happens to every player. Do I think he's diminished as rapidly as some would suggest? No, not one bit. To me, he's still our best defender. The thing which I don't understand is why he isn't afforded the same levels of protection as Stevie and Nando receive from the management. He shouldn't be playing every game, but 99% of the time he does. He should be given the odd match off to rest and keep him fresh.

 

One major gripe people have with him is the "hoof" up the line and his general distribution. That is something that pisses me off, but then again I see it as merely a symptom of a greater problem. He should not be playing right back at all. He hasn't got the fitness to play the modern right back roll, and it's unfair to ask him to do so. He admits in his book that he refused to do so under Rafa, so I don't see how 2 years down the line he will be any better at it. His 5 iron down the line stems from him basically not being able to advance forward, take on a few men and whip in a cross. That's not a criticism because he shouldn't have to be able to do that, he's an out and out defender. The manager is doing him a disservice by playing him at full back, when Martin Kelly proved last week how much more suited to the roll he is. He hasn't got the legs to do it, and should be kept at CB and CB only from now on. Look at Chelsea last week, Carra at his best. That's where he needs to stay, and with the odd rested game every now and then he'll look a lot better for it.

 

The other criticism is this idea that he is "too big for his boots" off the field. There are plenty of stories doing the rounds, I don't need to go in to them all because everyone knows them. I'm sure the vast majority of them will be bollocks. I'll be honest and say that I wasn't happy with some of the shit that appeared in certain newspapers over the past season or two, stuff which was very critical of the previous management. Some of it was very specific, and I don't think you needed to be an expert to see that it most probably had came from either him or Stevie, given the authors of these articles and their links with the said players. Maybe I'm 100% wrong, and even if I'm not this kind of thing goes on throughout the game anyway so it's wrong to pick out a couple of cases.

 

The talk is that Carra was very very keen for Rafa to depart and for Roy to take over. I have no proof to say whether that's true or not so I'm not going to conclusively believe that it is, although it wouldn't surprise me if it was the case. Carra spoken of the need for us to bring in a British manager, and a need for us to get the club "liked" again, in reference to Rafa's spats with O'Neil, Allardyce, Ferguson etc etc. To me, that's a load of bollocks. I couldn't give two shites if everyone hated us because Rafa wouldn't fall in to line with the LMA clique. I also couldn't give a shite if the manager is British or Ethiopian, as long as he's the best we can possibly recruit.

 

IF, and it's a big IF, it's true that he actively sought the removal of Rafa then all I'd say is that he needs to remember what he was before Rafa came here and what he was a couple of years later. That's not to do him a disservice because he's a very talented footballer who has achieved everything through his own passion and commitment, but Rafa improved him as a player no end, to the point where he was widely regarded around Europe as one of the continent's best. Of course, he is entitled to his opinion and if that was that we needed a change then fair enough. Like I said, I'd just hope that respect was retained and there was no active whisper campaign to remove him.

 

With regards to this incident on Saturday, who knows what happened. If he responded to personal abuse from someone close then fair enough. If he responded to paying fan's being generally fed up with another gutless performance in this manner then he's out of order. He'd probably be wise not to respond at all, but he's passionate and that's just the way he is.

 

All in all, Cara will rightly go down as a great at this club. He's not perfect but why should people expect him to be? If you put footballer's on that much of a moral pedestal then prepare to feel let down. He does and says things that piss me off but then so does my dad and my best mate. No one can doubt that his heart is in the right place and that's all that matters to me.

 

See that's a good post on the subject.

[RED Tezza]

Nice to see that a change in manager has improved the division's amongst posters here.

[JohnnyH]

I posted this on the twitter thread, but I'll put it here as it's mroe relevant. but Ant was playing teh anti-scouse thing there also..

 

_____________________________________________

 

And as night follows day, Ant comes out with his some OOTs are anti-scouse comment. Thank God you're not black Ant or you'd put Ali G to shame.

 

I'd just say that I don't think anyone is anti-scouse who supports the club. I thing OOTs can get a little annoyed when a possibly inferior player gets talked up far too much by locals and gets given loads of excuses when he may not be good enough, while other foreign players get no chance whatsoever. Or, for example, one thing I've seen on here quite a bit is a few of the Irish lads talking up an Irish player and local lads will have a good laugh at the Paddy talking up one of his own. It's the same thing to be fair, but some just don't get the irony.

 

But Waltonred makes a very good point that the there is nothing wrong with local fans really talking up a local player and wanting him to progress and so giving him extra leeway and much more of a chance. It's totally understandable and commendable. They just need to appreciate that if an OOT or OOC has a go that this is not been done through some anti-scouse agenda, but just that they are solely judging a player on his merits and not allowing him a bit of wiggle room because of where he comes from.

 

One other thing I'd say is that I think people are reading too much into the idea that NESV will only sign young players and so why did Carra get a contract. People are been far to black and white on this. Yes, of course NESV will make this their business plan, but it doesn't mean for one second that they also wont recognise the value of an older player and keep him at the club if it is the right thing to do. They know that Carra is so much more to the club then just some centre back and so have correctly given him abn extra 2 years. Expect to see Carra feature a lot more for the club in the background also as well as on the pitch now too. He will deal more with the kids now on the coaching side of things also. I'd also bet that any time Dalglish is doing some press thing or talking up the club that Carra will appear more and more by his side.

 

_________________________

 

I am adding that it is common knowledge that Carra hated Rafa at the end. It happens in a working relationship. I don't think for one second that Carra would take credit away from Rafa for the two European Cup finals or the only real title challenge he has enjoyed, or the FA Cup win, but the relationship soured. It happens. Maybe Carra did tell the CEO that he wanted Rafa gone when he was asked. Should be have lied? I don't thnk so. I'd have expressed my opinion so why can't Carra. I can't see how he could actively look for Rafa to go, other then to express his opinion. But that for me is ok. He's allowed that. That's if he did it at all.

[silverlining]

Jamie Carragher has earned the respect of Liverpool fans.

 

Those who call him out about Benitez and Budgie, or quack on about his "malign" influence are cunts, who mostly post on SQUAWK, which - as you all KNOW - is the worst, most embarrassing LFC website in the world.

 

That is all.

[JohnnyH]

I'd say Kanwars is the most embarrassing LFC site in the world. But RAWK is close.

[silverlining]

I'd say Kanwars is the most embarrassing LFC site in the world. But RAWK is close.

 

 

Wankar's site doesn't count, given that is entirely populated by mad people. Most of whom are Jamie Wankar, posting under several different pseudonyms.

[Best Believe It]

The thread title is like a Harry Potter book.

[silverlining]

The thread title is like a Harry Potter book.

 

I'd be more likely to read one for the first time if that was the case.

[Carradona]

Jamie Carragher has earned the respect of Liverpool fans.

 

Those who call him out about Benitez and Budgie, or quack on about his "malign" influence are cunts, who mostly post on SQUAWK, which - as you all KNOW - is the worst, most embarrassing LFC website in the world.

 

That is all.

 

Spot on.

[dirty_sanchez]

Why? Is he beyond questioning just because of who he is?

[Woo]

Why? Is he beyond questioning just because of who he is?

 

No, but unless people have some evidence that Carragher's been involved in some grand conspiracy against the previous regime, some people are rightly going to dismiss it as bullshit.

 

Don't think anyone has a problem with people criticising Carra's performances on the pitch over the past 18 months or so, but it's all this other stuff that is being spread that's out of order. Unless, of course, people can back it up.

[redsoxs]

Personally i blame Purslow for sacking Rafa, but the question who influenced Purslow?

[dirty_sanchez]

No, but unless people have some evidence that Carragher's been involved in some grand conspiracy against the previous regime, some people are rightly going to dismiss it as bullshit.

 

Don't think anyone has a problem with people criticising Carra's performances on the pitch over the past 18 months or so, but it's all this other stuff that is being spread that's out of order. Unless, of course, people can back it up.

 

If people are calling it fact then they deserve to be called out on it, but people who are openly being speculative about it are being called out and bundled in with them as well. Accusing Carra of all sorts without evidence is out of order. Questioning him shouldn't be, including questioning his role in Rafa's removal or Hodgson's appointment. You know that Carragher tactically leaked stuff to people because we've talked about it in the past off here and you weren't doubting those sources.

[Carradona]

If people are calling it fact then they deserve to be called out on it, but people who are openly being speculative about it are being called out and bundled in with them as well. Accusing Carra of all sorts without evidence is out of order. Questioning him shouldn't be, including questioning his role in Rafa's removal or Hodgson's appointment. You know that Carragher tactically leaked stuff to people because we've talked about it in the past off here and you weren't doubting those sources.

 

There are people suggesting on twitter and facebook that Carragher was working behind the scenes to get rid of Rafa and that he is the reason Rafa isn't here anymore. It's nonsense but it's what I expect from those who could see no wrong in Rafa and are now scraping the barrels to find more excuses which paint Rafa as a victim.

 

Carra is my favourite ever player for us and I find it diffficult when people criticise him (which is becoming more often because of some of the performances he has put in over the last two seasons). But that criticism is fair enough and is valid, but to criticise him over something like this is completely unfair. There is no evidence and when the rumours about Rafa rubbing his fingers together last season came out, people dismissed it as gobshite gossip speculation. And that is what I label all this as. Gobshite gossip speculation.

[Woo]

If people are calling it fact then they deserve to be called out on it, but people who are openly being speculative about it are being called out and bundled in with them as well. Accusing Carra of all sorts without evidence is out of order. Questioning him shouldn't be, including questioning his role in Rafa's removal or Hodgson's appointment. You know that Carragher tactically leaked stuff to people because we've talked about it in the past off here and you weren't doubting those sources.

 

Like I said, I've no problem with people questioning him, but you just need to read this thread to see that people are criticising Carra for stuff that there's no evidence of. That's probably what riles people - including me - the most. Carra probably did want Rafa gone, but I very much doubt he was alone in that regard, or that he was strongly involved in getting Rafa the sack, which is what people seem to be claiming. I'm sure Carra filled out Rafa's P45 for him, helped cleared the stuff out of his office and booked Rafa's plane tickets to Milan (economy class, though).

 

I don't dispute that as a senior player and vice captain of the club, Carra does have some sort of influence behind the scenes, but people are confusing influence with power. He's training to become a coach, so he's no doubt always speaking to the staff at both Melwood and the Academy, which would probably be misinterpreted by some as he's plotting treason that makes Guy Fawkes' gunpowder plot pale in comparison.

[Antynwa]

This is the thing though. It's been going on for years. Like Carradona said, be it what he said about song in his autobiography, be it kicking off on a team mate for making a mistake.

 

It's always something with Carra that seems to infuriate some fans, and I include the scouse thing because I sometimes feel thats what it is, wether it's because he's adored by locals grates on others I have no idea. Maybe they have a chip on their shoulder.

 

People are very keen without proof to bundle him in with Purslow in regards to sacking and Rafa and getting roy. Why?

 

I think it is common knowledge Carra wanted Rafa out. But if 1 player wanted the manager out, would they actually do it, of course not, same goes for appointing a manager. Which we have no idea if Carragher wanted Roy or not.

 

I'm very disappointed to see fellow reds peddling the line of Carra having influence, which is bull crap. Carragher as a player isn't as much of an asset as Torres and Gerrard. So to suggest his word would overrule that of others is bull crap.

 

Why people are so keen to involve Carra in some massive conspiracy is beyond me? I've seen several people alude to a grand 'Get an English Fella in' conspiracy, and back him all the way or some crap.

 

Carragher will be hurting more than us lot over the current situation at the club, the man had put blood, sweat and tears into this club, and that was just what happened to his opponents.

 

I'm livid. He's not beyond question as a player, but he's certainly beyond question as far as his interests go. Because quite frankly, he's a dying breed, and when he's gone you'll loose what makes this club great.

[Joe Le Taxi]

I have paid no attention to the anger facing Jamie and I am confused.

 

All I see is an accusation that if you love Rafa you hate Jamie (apologies if I have it mixed up) however I love them both.

 

If Jamie was involved in getting rid of Rafa then I am disappointed in him however his past actions for both the club and the city of Liverpool prove he should be given the benefit of the doubt whilst these accusations remain unsolved.

 

It seems we as fans just want someone to hate. We've had Rafa, the owners, (rightfully so) the board and now one of our own!

 

I don't know what has gone off so I am in no position to start telling people what they should be thinking in regards to Carra but the abuse he is getting is uncalled for.

 

If someone wants to explain everything that has happened or supposedly happened with Jamie do it by PM to me as I am lost and I don't want it posted in the public as it has already caused a lot of arguments.

 

If I got this completely wrong then don't be surprised as I have had fuck all sleep.

[JohnnyH]

As an aside, Martin Broughton certainly thinks player power had a lot to do with Rafa going. But I think that is the case at most clubs and doesn't for one second mean Carra waged some campaign to get him out.

 

I actually think the idea that a single player went off on some vendetta to get rid of the manager is a bit absurd.

[lyricallylethal]

This is the most embarrassing "liverpool" site there is with a bunch of so called "supporters" who have about as much of a understanding of liverpool as Hodgson does.

 

Live in your ivory tower and call other fans deluded and ignore the basic truth that your beloved carra has got his way and that is why the team is SHIT. I pray one day soon Hodgson is gone and with him the influence of a typical shit overhyped english player that can't let go off something that is bigger and beyond him.

 

Carrageher knows as much about the liverpool way as the tossers jumping to his defence on this site called "the liverpool way" what a fucking joke.

 

P.S. It is funny how you have a go at RAWK but that site is 2030404 times superior to this site and most of you that post on here are rejects from there who wern't given the time of there and got banned and deservedly fucking so.

[silverlining]

This is the most embarrassing "liverpool" site there is with a bunch of so called "supporters" who have about as much of a understanding of liverpool as Hodgson does.

 

Live in your ivory tower and call other fans deluded and ignore the basic truth that your beloved carra has got his way and that is why the team is SHIT. I pray one day soon Hodgson is gone and with him the influence of a typical shit overhyped english player that can't let go off something that is bigger and beyond him.

 

Carrageher knows about liverpool way as the tossers jumping to his defence on this site called "the liverpool way" what a fucking joke.

 

P.S. It is funny how you have a go at RAWK but that site is 2030404 times superior to this site and most of you that post on here are rejects from there who wern't given the time of the day for their shitty posts.

 

Just what we need. Another massive cunt.

[Guest davelfc]

P.S. It is funny how you have a go at RAWK but that site is 2030404 times superior to this site and most of you that post on here are rejects from there who wern't given the time of there and got banned and deservedly fucking so.

 

2030405 actually.

[dirty_sanchez]

There are people suggesting on twitter and facebook that Carragher was working behind the scenes to get rid of Rafa and that he is the reason Rafa isn't here anymore. It's nonsense but it's what I expect from those who could see no wrong in Rafa and are now scraping the barrels to find more excuses which paint Rafa as a victim.

 

Carra is my favourite ever player for us and I find it diffficult when people criticise him (which is becoming more often because of some of the performances he has put in over the last two seasons). But that criticism is fair enough and is valid, but to criticise him over something like this is completely unfair. There is no evidence and when the rumours about Rafa rubbing his fingers together last season came out, people dismissed it as gobshite gossip speculation. And that is what I label all this as. Gobshite gossip speculation.

 

People thinking that Carra was implicit in Rafa's sacking doesn't necessarily make them "pro Rafa".

[Woo]

This is the most embarrassing "liverpool" site there is with a bunch of so called "supporters" who have about as much of a understanding of liverpool as Hodgson does.

 

Live in your ivory tower and call other fans deluded and ignore the basic truth that your beloved carra has got his way and that is why the team is SHIT. I pray one day soon Hodgson is gone and with him the influence of a typical shit overhyped english player that can't let go off something that is bigger and beyond him.

 

Carrageher knows as much about the liverpool way as the tossers jumping to his defence on this site called "the liverpool way" what a fucking joke.

 

P.S. It is funny how you have a go at RAWK but that site is 2030404 times superior to this site and most of you that post on here are rejects from there who wern't given the time of there and got banned and deservedly fucking so.

 

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

 

Welcome to the site, mate. Feel free to share your Rafa is a cunt poem and we pray at noon to Carra's shrine every day.

[Carradona]

This is the most embarrassing "liverpool" site there is with a bunch of so called "supporters" who have about as much of a understanding of liverpool as Hodgson does.

 

Live in your ivory tower and call other fans deluded and ignore the basic truth that your beloved carra has got his way and that is why the team is SHIT. I pray one day soon Hodgson is gone and with him the influence of a typical shit overhyped english player that can't let go off something that is bigger and beyond him.

 

Carrageher knows as much about the liverpool way as the tossers jumping to his defence on this site called "the liverpool way" what a fucking joke.

 

P.S. It is funny how you have a go at RAWK but that site is 2030404 times superior to this site and most of you that post on here are rejects from there who wern't given the time of there and got banned and deservedly fucking so.

 

Firstly, who are you?

 

Secondly, before you answer that, fuck off.

[Carradona]

People thinking that Carra was implicit in Rafa's sacking doesn't necessarily make them "pro Rafa".

 

I'm not suggesting that DS, but the majority of people would be.