Jamie Carragher and the tits who think he has too much power.

[goatboy59]

Because having to type out all the threats, times he was called a cancer etc would get pretty boring?

 

Let's not pretend this abuse of previous managers was isolated. From death threats to accusations of corruption and everything in between hodgson has seen very little of it.

 

Perhaps you can point us in the direction of the evoking of internet 'terrorism' to get rid of Houllier or Benitez.

 

Perhaps you can point me in the direction of widespread encouragement to sing Houllier Out or Benitez Out.

 

Oh no sorry, it's Hodgson For England or Dalglish.

 

Because y'know, we don't want to look petty and unseemly do we?

[Cardie]

 

Perhaps you can point us in the direction of the evoking of internet 'terrorism' to get rid of Houllier or Benitez.

 

Perhaps you can point me in the direction of widespread encouragement to sing Houllier Out or Benitez Out.

 

Oh no sorry, it's Hodgson For England or Dalglish.

 

Because y'know, we don't want to look petty and unseemly do we?

 

Weren't you one of those who quite like the anti rafa Taliban tag?

[Malarkey]

Anti Benitez.

 

Uncle Benitez.

[silverlining]

I think whether or not Carragher would be a good manager remains to be seen. I will ask this, though: if he has a great deal of tactical nous, why does he play long balls so often?

 

That's one of the fucking stupidest things I've ever read on this Forum.

Even by your own hilariously low standards.

 

*mong clap*

[Kevin D]

Perhaps you can point us in the direction of the evoking of internet 'terrorism' to get rid of Houllier or Benitez.

 

Perhaps you can point me in the direction of widespread encouragement to sing Houllier Out or Benitez Out.

 

Oh no sorry, it's Hodgson For England or Dalglish.

 

Because y'know, we don't want to look petty and unseemly do we?

 

To be fair, it's not come to fruiton yet and it may not. Still, as unsavoury, unpleasant and ill-thought out as it is; it's not in the same galaxy as condemning someone for not going to their dad's funeral, accusing him of trying to get sacked, aiding Tom Hicks in his attempt to destroy the club or any of the 20,000 things Rafa was routinely accused of.

[Best Believe It]

I agree we're playing deeper most of the time. Hodgson used to like Danny Murphy in his team though. Some people on here believe he is a ball playing midfielder, and is responsible for making Fulham tick. He's put plenty of other ball players in his team too, and wingers. Hodgson does like long ball tactics, but I think he likes short ball tactics too.

 

Did he play Danny Murphy at centre-back or have I missed something?

 

If Hodgson likes short-ball tactics I've yet to see any evidence of that.

[stringvest]

So you credit yourself with the ability but everyone else isn't capable.

 

Still doesn't explain how The hodgson abuse (right or wrong) is worse than that aimed at other managers.

 

Wrong. Everyone capable of typing on here is capable. Even you.

 

It's my view that the number of abusive posts and the bitterness of the bile is greater for Hodgson than for any previous manager. Now I could spend all week walking through the posts and conducting a count, while measuring each instance of abuse against a bitterness rating, but unfortunately I'm not in the position where I can retire just yet. My time is not my own.

[Malarkey]

I think whether or not Carragher would be a good manager remains to be seen. I will ask this, though: if he has a great deal of tactical nous, why does he play long balls so often?

 

If there's no short ball on, launch it.

 

Then you ask the question: "Why is there no short balls on?"

 

I'd love to know what you think when you're watching a game of football.

 

In fact, no. Don't tell me.

[stringvest]

Did he play Danny Murphy at centre-back or have I missed something?

 

If Hodgson likes short-ball tactics I've yet to see any evidence of that.

 

no, I think Danny Murphy plays in midfield. But surely not the sort of player you want in there if you're playing the long ball game all the time.

[Best Believe It]

no, I think Danny Murphy plays in midfield. But surely not the sort of player you want in there if you're playing the long ball game all the time.

 

Neither is Raul Meireles or Joe Cole. Or Damien Duff. I'm not claiming that all he does is ask all the defenders to punt it upfield. But essentially his game plan involves a long ball up to a striker who holds it up and attempts to bring everyone else into the game.

[goatboy59]

To be fair, it's not come to fruiton yet and it may not. Still, as unsavoury, unpleasant and ill-thought out as it is; it's not in the same galaxy as condemning someone for not going to their dad's funeral, accusing him of trying to get sacked, aiding Tom Hicks in his attempt to destroy the club or any of the 20,000 things Rafa was routinely accused of.

 

The funeral thing was Henry Winter. Could dig out the 'Excellent Read' but seem to recall he was universallly condemned for that.

 

Not so much trying to get sacked as refusing to quit because it would cancel his pay-off - that's happening to Hodgson as well, except he's an abomination with no class while Rafa was wholly justified.

 

If it had been up to Gillett and Parry, Rafa would have got nothing like a 5 year contract.

 

And again I did not see people trying to organise a concerted campaign of abuse within the ground itself, the ultimate humiliation. The Souness/Oldham thing was pre internet and wholly spontaneous, as the Kenny chants have been (up to now at least).

 

Maybe it won't come to fruition, but that would be a severe underestimation of the venom involved here.

[ngogswilly]

Neither is Raul Meireles or Joe Cole. Or Damien Duff. I'm not claiming that all he does is ask all the defenders to punt it upfield. But essentially his game plan involves a long ball up to a striker who holds it up and attempts to bring everyone else into the game.

 

That seems to be what hes aiming for. I can see elements of Fulham in us. The rigid shape and the general set up is very similar. Obviously Torres is supposed to play the Zamora role.

 

But the problem is you can't shoehorn any old tactics onto any old 11 players. You need to mould the system to suit the players. Maybe in fairness to Roy he is attempting that, but we've seen no sign of that working what so ever. We look just utterly clueless out there.

 

Our players have gotten used to playing Rafas system over the last 4/5 years. I'm not going to debate the merits of that system. I'm just saying thats what they are used to.

[Royal Family]

As for Carragher, sometimes I wish he'd keep his gob shut. But then sometimes I wish he'd let rip, you know like if he'd have mouthed off against the former owners - perhaps then he'd get more leeway about having his say on other matters.

 

Now, this truly is a ridiculous comment, and it's rather typical of the bitter misrepresentations that people are now spouting about carra. Let's go back 2 years shall we - carra turning up at an SOS gig perhaps? The sweet irony of this is that he's being described as a legend and a man who bleeds Liverpool by some of the people now most critical of him.

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/61239-mr-james-lee-duncan-carragher.html

 

Or maybe if that isn't enough you'd like to re-read his autobiography when he calls them "ruthless businessmen" and individuals who had caused "the death of the Liverpool way". This from an employee of the club.

 

It's one thing to speculate idly about his role in regime change this summer; it's another to cast aspersions that are patently and shamefully untrue. Carra was enormously active in the fight against the owners, and incredibly outspoken: yet, it seems that it's open season on him now, and all this isn't just being forgotten, but is actually being denied and he's now somehow being cast as having been silent on the ownership. And this is all because he perhaps wasn't Rafa's greatest fan by the end?

You ought to be truly ashamed of that comment. This venegeful campaign against Carra is an absolute disgrace when it comes to comments like that.

[Kevin D]

The funeral thing was Henry Winter. Could dig out the 'Excellent Read' but seem to recall he was universallly condemned for that.

 

Not so much trying to get sacked as refusing to quit because it would cancel his pay-off - that's happening to Hodgson as well, except he's an abomination with no class while Rafa was wholly justified.

 

If it had been up to Gillett and Parry, Rafa would have got nothing like a 5 year contract.

 

And again I did not see people trying to organise a concerted campaign of abuse within the ground itself, the ultimate humiliation. The Souness/Oldham thing was pre internet and wholly spontaneous, as the Kenny chants have been (up to now at least).

 

Maybe it won't come to fruition, but that would be a severe underestimation of the venom involved here.

 

I think we're debating the wrong thing. We both agree that the criticisms of Rafa and Hodgson have exceeded tolerable levels and will continue to escalate towards the latter. I'm happy to leave it there. It's probably better to debate what, if anything, the forum can do to stem the tide.

 

I recall Paul once made a thread where about 100 posters pledged to be more respectful towards each other and something along those lines would be nice. Whatever Hodgson's failings, subjecting him to a concerted campaign of abuse - I've read that it's pretty bad on social networking sides, but I'm not on any - is a sad reflection on the fanbase and, ultimately, the club.

[goatboy59]

Fair enough.

 

I think 'we' are crossing a line way beyond what has happened to others. People claim it will stop with the next managerial appointment. If it doesn't they'll look pretty stupid.

 

If they actually participate in it again, well good luck with your Forum Respect pledge!

[dirty_sanchez]

Carra was enormously active in the fight against the owners, and incredibly outspoken: yet, it seems that it's open season on him now, and all this isn't just being forgotten, but is actually being denied and he's now somehow being cast as having been silent on the ownership. And this is all because he perhaps wasn't Rafa's greatest fan by the end?

 

Was he? What did he do?

[ngogswilly]

Fair enough.

 

I think 'we' are crossing a line way beyond what has happened to others. People claim it will stop with the next managerial appointment. If it doesn't they'll look pretty stupid.

 

If they actually participate in it again, well good luck with your Forum Respect pledge!

 

It might happen again with another manager. But I genuinely believe the absolute lowdown scummy abuse has come from a small minority.

 

The more general "Fuck Him" "Get this clown out" etc... abuse has come from a bigger amount of people no doubt.

 

But I also believe its because of 2 factors, the way he has conducted himself in the media and the way he has us playing(which is just horrible stuff).

Not going to defend the abuse he gets. Just saying another manager who doesn't conduct himself the way Roy does would most likely get a bit more leeway.

[ritchie]

The funeral thing was Henry Winter. Could dig out the 'Excellent Read' but seem to recall he was universallly condemned for that.

 

Not so much trying to get sacked as refusing to quit because it would cancel his pay-off - that's happening to Hodgson as well, except he's an abomination with no class while Rafa was wholly justified.

 

If it had been up to Gillett and Parry, Rafa would have got nothing like a 5 year contract.

 

And again I did not see people trying to organise a concerted campaign of abuse within the ground itself, the ultimate humiliation. The Souness/Oldham thing was pre internet and wholly spontaneous, as the Kenny chants have been (up to now at least).

 

Maybe it won't come to fruition, but that would be a severe underestimation of the venom involved here.

 

To be fair, Rafa didn't actually get anything like the full pay off he was entitled to under terms of his contract, did he? If he was as much of a bastard as the Bascombe crowd on here make him out to be - then he could have stung the club for every penny of the 5 years.

 

Roy Hodgson was quoted, needlessly, two-months ago saying "If the club want to get rid of me, then presumably they pay up my three-year contract". Could luck John, in negotiating a settlement with this man.

 

Rafa had a lot of faults, but it'd be wrong to say he didn't care at all about the club and it's fans. No-one can even empathise with Hodgson, because he's yet to show an ounce of feeling for the club - instead insulting us all by calling protesters "those people" and saying how it doesn't help him.

[Moo]

Now, this truly is a ridiculous comment, and it's rather typical of the bitter misrepresentations that people are now spouting about carra. Let's go back 2 years shall we - carra turning up at an SOS gig perhaps? The sweet irony of this is that he's being described as a legend and a man who bleeds Liverpool by some of the people now most critical of him.

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/61239-mr-james-lee-duncan-carragher.html

 

Or maybe if that isn't enough you'd like to re-read his autobiography when he calls them "ruthless businessmen" and individuals who had caused "the death of the Liverpool way". This from an employee of the club.

 

It's one thing to speculate idly about his role in regime change this summer; it's another to cast aspersions that are patently and shamefully untrue. Carra was enormously active in the fight against the owners, and incredibly outspoken: yet, it seems that it's open season on him now, and all this isn't just being forgotten, but is actually being denied and he's now somehow being cast as having been silent on the ownership. And this is all because he perhaps wasn't Rafa's greatest fan by the end?

You ought to be truly ashamed of that comment. This venegeful campaign against Carra is an absolute disgrace when it comes to comments like that.

 

I'm glad you've reminded me about him turning up to the SOS meeting actually, I had forgotten. But to this day I still don't know what he said, it all seemed to be kept away from public consumption. And although I would have liked to have known more of what he said, the fact that he did show up was admirable.

 

The only other thing I can say is that I can assure you of two things:

- I am not knowingly or trying to be part of any campaign against Carragher

- Whatever I say about Carragher has little or nothing to do with his relationship with our former manager

[goatboy59]

To be fair, Rafa didn't actually get anything like the full pay off he was entitled to under terms of his contract, did he? If he was as much of a bastard as the Bascombe crowd on here make him out to be - then he could have stung the club for every penny of the 5 years.

 

 

He'd have had to stick it out a lot longer than that. Tony Barrett reported the initial offer of 3m and a day later Rafa was gone. Does that not ever give you pause for thought, given what a great 'warrior' against the owners he was supposed to be?

 

Time was a factor for the Inter job, I suspect.

 

With Hodgson I think you'll see the same compromise.

[Guest ian garro]

But I also believe its because of 2 factors, the way he has conducted himself in the media and the way he has us playing(which is just horrible stuff).

Not going to defend the abuse he gets. Just saying another manager who doesn't conduct himself the way Roy does would most likely get a bit more leeway.

 

It's because of something Tony Barrett wrote the other day: "His failure to connect with the Liverpool supporters is absolute". Spot on for me that, we are and always have been, a touch sentimental as a club - hence the reverance of the likes of Shankly, Paisley and Kenny.

 

Souness was one of, if not the greatest captain we ever had - head start; Evans was part of The Boot Room - headstart; Houllier came in and spoke poetically about his love for the club over the years, etc etc; Benitez came in, went for a drink in a pub in Cologne full of our Euro away support - and countless other little things in his first couple of years.

 

All Hodgson has done, is try to dampen any excitement, expectation or enthusiasm, to the point where he seemed to be belittling the club at times, he's then alienated much of the support with his inane, bizarre ramblings in press conferences. In short, he never bought any goodwill - and there was a bit of it about, when he first came here. Since the actual football started though, it's been a horrible, downward spiral.

[ritchie]

It's because of something Tony Barrett wrote the other day: "His failure to connect with the Liverpool supporters is absolute". Spot on for me that, we are and always have been, a touch sentimental as a club - hence the reverance of the likes of Shankly, Paisley and Kenny.

 

Souness was one of, if not the greatest captain we ever had - head start; Evans was part of The Boot Room - headstart; Houllier came in and spoke poetically about his love for the club over the years, etc etc; Benitez came in, went for a drink in a pub in Cologne full of our Euro away support - and countless other little things in his first couple of years.

 

All Hodgson has done, is try to dampen any excitement, expectation or enthusiasm, to the point where he seemed to be belittling the club at times, he's then alienated much of the support with his inane, bizarre ramblings in press conferences. In short, he never bought any goodwill - and there was a bit of it about, when he first came here. Since the actual football started though, it's been a horrible, downward spiral.

 

Exactly.

 

I can't think of one thing he's done, or even said, to even try and get the fans on side. Who's even advising him for christ's sake?

 

For 40-odd years our managers all knew the score because from Shanks onwards they'd been part of the club.

 

Then Houllier broke away from the tradition, but, as you say, straight away he endeared himself to the supporters, as did Rafa. This fella just doesn't get the club at all.

[TheHowieLama]

Does that not ever give you pause for thought, given what a great 'warrior' against the owners he was supposed to be?

.

 

Are you suggesting you do not think he was entitled to any compensation?

[goatboy59]

Are you suggesting you do not think he was entitled to any compensation?

 

I am not.

[TheHowieLama]

I am not.

 

Agreed, but a figure of 3m should give pause for thought in what way then?