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Guest San Don

Riiiiiiight. So this thread has gone from Carragher being virtually solely responsible for ousting Benitez, to him having the power to appoint hodgson to being Scouse v OOT?

 

Seriously people, have a fucking word.

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This 'rapid decline' has been happening for years and years, the only difference is everyones voice can be heard by a wider audience thanks to the Internet.

 

Houllier was probably the first manager to suffer fully at the hands of the Internet (called a cancer amongst other lovely names) but let's not pretend that Evans and Souness weren't subject to abuse in the pubs, schools and workplaces pre-mainstream web access.

 

The trail only stops at Souness because of the success of Dalglish, Fagan, Paisley and Shankly but you can guarantee that even then there were points where fuelled up Liverpool supporters aimed their frustrations at the manager.

I disagree, Cardie. Certainly I felt the abuse GH and Rafa got was well out of order (and said so at the time) even though I agreed with their respective departures, so I agree that things have been going downhill for a long time. However, new lows have been reached this season - and all within a matter of weeks.

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I disagree, Cardie. Certainly I felt the abuse GH and Rafa got was well out of order (and said so at the time) even though I agreed with their respective departures, so I agree that things have been going downhill for a long time. However, new lows have been reached this season - and all within a matter of weeks.

 

What lows?

 

Has anything happened in the past few weeks that hasn't happened in previous years.

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I disagree, Cardie. Certainly I felt the abuse GH and Rafa got was well out of order (and said so at the time) even though I agreed with their respective departures, so I agree that things have been going downhill for a long time. However, new lows have been reached this season - and all within a matter of weeks.

 

I've seen no evidence of wishing Roy dead, (not that it isn't out there, unfortunately I guess) however it is far more readily available to see shite spouted by pricks nowadays.

 

It wasn't so long ago the previous manager was taking back handers from the NOTW to buy a new car, (it was donating to a local charity for a minibus) deliberately lose games to get a £16m pay off, and be called a fat Spanish waiter/cunt.

 

We have some scum supporting us.

 

They weren't all pro Rafa and anti Roy.

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As an aside, Martin Broughton certainly thinks player power had a lot to do with Rafa going. But I think that is the case at most clubs and doesn't for one second mean Carra waged some campaign to get him out.

 

I actually think the idea that a single player went off on some vendetta to get rid of the manager is a bit absurd.

 

That is true. It was more than just Jamie that didn't want to continue under Rafa.

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Was it aimed at all of them?

 

 

 

 

I think it takes more than just Jamie Carragher to oust a manager, he must have annoyed others as well

 

Yes, he annoyed the owners and what they came to describe as their "treacherous" agents, Purslow and Broughton.

 

Carragher was the owner's willing tool who sold his media reputation as "Mr. Liverpool" for their thirty pieces of sliver e.g. a two year 90,000 a week contract and prospect of a future coaching or managerial position with the club. All they asked in return was for him to give them grounds to say Rafa had lost "the leading players".

 

Most of Carragher's sneaky work leading up to this was done here on TLW and with Bascombe - and TLW and Bascombe work in close cooperation. Carragher is too much of a coward to put his name to his own dirty work. Usher and Bascombe gave him the cover of anonymity he asked for.

 

The little band of propagandists who run this site were so shivering with excitement at the thought of a real live LFC player communicating "insider" stuff that they became Carragher's willing tool in spreading his anti-Rafa propaganda (and that includes all their propaganda against Rafa-bought players of whom Carragher also disapproved for his own self-interested reasons).

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I disagree, Cardie. Certainly I felt the abuse GH and Rafa got was well out of order (and said so at the time) even though I agreed with their respective departures, so I agree that things have been going downhill for a long time. However, new lows have been reached this season - and all within a matter of weeks.

 

We have always had cunts in our fanbase, it has never been any different and I dont think its gonna change. To try to say its worse now than what it was years ago is an effort at erasing history. The treatment of Houllier was a fucking disgrace.

 

Police called in after death threats to Houllier | Liverpool - Times Online

 

Nowadays we have cunts who profess to being the best fans this club has. Yet these same 'fans' would rather be proved correct on an internet forum than the club do well at times.

 

Joke fans! We've always been top heavy with our fair share of idiots.

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We have always had cunts in our fanbase, it has never been any different and I dont think its gonna change. To try to say its worse now than what it was years ago is an effort at erasing history. The treatment of Houllier was a fucking disgrace.

 

Police called in after death threats to Houllier | Liverpool - Times Online

 

Nowadays we have cunts who profess to being the best fans this club has. Yet these same 'fans' would rather be proved correct on an internet forum than the club do well at times.

 

Joke fans! We've always been top heavy with our fair share of idiots.

 

Regardless of opinion/agenda etc unfortunately this is bang on the money.

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Good post Ant but you are making statements about Carra didn't do this and Carra didn't do that but you don't know yourself what has really been going off at Melwood.

 

 

 

Oh come come Coop,Ant knows everything.

He's the bestest Reds fan ever & is the very epitomy of how we all should be.

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I accept that. I just want to know why Carragher's the one publically backing Hodgson all the time. "It's up to us to impress the manager not the other way round"; the exclusive with Bascombe with the premise of "Hodgson needs time"; and the "Houllier and Rafa struggled in their first season as well" interview. That's at least three seperate occasions he's lept to the defence of Hodgson in the space of a month or two.

 

Of course, he didn't defend Rafa on a single occasion last season. Point being, no-one can say "well it's his job to defend the manager", because last season he refused to do it.

 

Why can't he see what the fans, and presumably a fair few of the players can? Hodgson is not the right man for Liverpool Football Club. End of. I don't care if he's English; I don't care if he won't upset Steve Bruce or Martin O'Neill; I don't care if he's part of Ferguson's LMA clique; and I don't care if the media love him. He just isn't good enough for our club.

 

If a new manager comes in maybe he will need act on his previous suggestion that he will leave if he becomes a bit part player.

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This whole agenda epitomises the rapid decline of our collective class as fans, for me. It's also the reason why I don't want to see Kenny, my only hero in adult life, get so much as a ten minute sniff of a care-taking role, should Roy go - never mind get the job permanently. We all know full well that he'd get called all sorts of shite whenever he said or did something even vaguely outside the views of the various gobshites that make up a significant minority of our support now - the sort who call our current manager a cunt and mock and abuse him for his looks, age or accent.

 

You do not have to like or rate someone to respect the fact that they have a role at Liverpool Football Club and are therefore (extremes of behaviour excepted) deserving of our respect and support.

 

Agree with all that tbh. The personal abuse Rafa took last season by reds - on here as much as anywhere - was a disgrace.

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Agree with all that tbh. The personal abuse Rafa took last season by reds - on here as much as anywhere - was a disgrace.

 

And put the OP of this thread as the worst example every day of last season.

But don't speak against my hewo Jwaime, di dums, attention seek etc etc

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You do not have to like or rate someone to respect the fact that they have a role at Liverpool Football Club and are therefore (extremes of behaviour excepted) deserving of our respect and support.

 

Tom Hicks Jr, El-Hadji Diouf and Graeme Souness have all had roles at the club in the recent past. Did they deserve our respect and support?

 

I'm not sure "class" is the same as uncritical acceptance and hero worship, and if not, well - it all depends on how you define "extremes of behaviour" doesn't it?

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I can see that people are starting to get bundled into "Pro Carragher" and "Anti Carragher" groupings. Why does it always have to go like that on this site? It's ridiculous. Can't people love Carra while at the same time acknowledging his faults without being labelled as "disrespectful" or "ungrateful"?

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Guest ian garro
I can see that people are starting to get bundled into "Pro Carragher" and "Anti Carragher" groupings. Why does it always have to go like that on this site? It's ridiculous.

 

Agreed - look at the thread title though. It was only ever going one way.

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Guest davelfc
I can see that people are starting to get bundled into "Pro Carragher" and "Anti Carragher" groupings. Why does it always have to go like that on this site? It's ridiculous. Can't people love Carra while at the same time acknowledging his faults without being labelled as "disrespectful" or "ungrateful"?

 

Spot on, I think he's been a great servant and unlike a lot gives 100% every time he is on that pitch.

 

As his 100% doesn't cut it then he will need to become more and more of a bit part player. That's sad but the life of a footballer. How he deals with that is up to him.

 

What he does or says when not wearing the shirt is no business of mine. If he says or does anything that the club deem wrong then they will (like they would with any player) take whatever action they think necessary. I don't really want to know the people behind the shirts, it's never really been something I've been that interested in. It makes zero difference to what they do on the pitch, where they are judged.

 

It will be a sad day when he hangs up his boots but I hope one day he becomes our manager.

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Spot on there chops. I have three questions:

 

1. Who/What was moschops I?

 

2. Now this may wind a few people up, but I think it's a valid and interesting question for any of our supporters, but what the fuck caused the disintegration between Carra & Benitez? Never mind who did what or who spoke to who, or who ate the jaffa cakes, but if we accept there was a parting of the ways, what the fuck caused it, I know last season was a nightmare, but for fucks sake they achieved so much together. Look at Ayestaran, he got the boot for sneaking into Mourinho's hovel when the lights were out, but what caused the mighty schism between Carra and Benitez? maybe we'll never know, but it's interesting all the same. St John had a big fall out with Shanks, by all accounts, at the end of his time at liverpool, he felt he had more to give, Shanks didn't. Again, Im not shit stirring here, but simply interested, my theory is it may have been to do with Benitez's dealings with Robbie Keane, he and Carra seemed to be pretty matey, he was treated pretty shoddily - for whatever reasons the manager decided - and was bombed out, was this the final straw behind Carragher and Benitez's approach?

 

3. This one is particularly for Dr Dre & the SWA, how would you feel, should our vice captain do his coaching badges, do a stint as reserve coach, then get the opportunity to manage the shite. With his character and determination, especially if we had a young manager who was doing the business, this could be a definite possibility in the future. Now would you, beg him to stay (which he may disregard given certain circumstances), castigate him as a leper and a turncoat and thus someone who should never have been given so much power at Liverpool, and was never a true red, or wish him well bar the derbies, thank him for what he achieved, and good luck in the conference.

 

3. is of course hypothetical, and I maybe accused of setting up a lIverpool great for a fall, but our captain went on to become one of, arguably, the greatest managers of the 20th century at our arch rivals. The boy genius who did so much with a liverbird on his chest, also joined the shower of shite, so we can never say never. For me this is the reason why it is the club, only the club. Sure we have great players and managers who we grow attached to, but they are purely transient, even when Kenny went blackburn, sure they were the next team you looked for results wise, to see how he was going. Kenny returned, hopefully carra, can stay with the club, and help push it forward, but equally he may look to opportunities elsewhere, and that is his right, at the end of the day, he does this to pay the rent, we all do it because we're fucked up eejits, still following the dream of being able to achieve half of what he has.

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I can see that people are starting to get bundled into "Pro Carragher" and "Anti Carragher" groupings. Why does it always have to go like that on this site? It's ridiculous. Can't people love Carra while at the same time acknowledging his faults without being labelled as "disrespectful" or "ungrateful"?

 

Spot on there Hugo

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We have always had cunts in our fanbase, it has never been any different and I dont think its gonna change. To try to say its worse now than what it was years ago is an effort at erasing history. The treatment of Houllier was a fucking disgrace.

 

Police called in after death threats to Houllier | Liverpool - Times Online

 

Nowadays we have cunts who profess to being the best fans this club has. Yet these same 'fans' would rather be proved correct on an internet forum than the club do well at times.

 

Joke fans! We've always been top heavy with our fair share of idiots.

 

I can also remember someone spraypainting "Fuck off Houllier, hope you die of AIDS" on the wall outside Melwood.

 

Think a big thing now is that there's just more people using the internet forums and twitter etc. 6 or 7 years ago the internet crowd was nowhere near as big as it is now. But there is still a real undercurrent of nastiness towards Hodgson, something which overall I feel is worse. Nothing quite as extreme as death threats, but there's just a very bad feeling about him.

 

It's probably because Houllier and Benitez made a lot of friends in their early seasons by winning things and being relatively unknown foreign personalities which made them seem more charming and friendly than they otherwise might have been had we known them better than we did. Hodgson has never had that luxury - and never will.

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I hope one day he becomes our manager.

 

If he's good enough then of course, but what suggests that he would be?

 

Carragher and Gerrard have been great servants for Liverpool as players. I don't think they're management material al all, though.

 

You just need to watch them on the pitch. Gerrard's head can drop a lot when things aren't going well, and he's not exactly the encouraging type. Carragher reminds me of Roy Keane. Committed and whole hearted, but his people skills probably aren't the best. If he's so happy with Hodgson, then he can hardly have a great tactical brain either.

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Guest davelfc
If he's good enough then of course, but what suggests that he would be?

 

Carragher and Gerrard have been great servants for Liverpool as players. I don't think they're management material al all, though.

 

You just need to watch them on the pitch. Gerrard's head can drop a lot when things aren't going well, and he's not exactly the encouraging type. Carragher reminds me of Roy Keane. Committed and whole hearted, but his people skills probably aren't the best. If he's so happy with Hodgson, then he can hardly have a great tactical brain either.

 

I could go on for pages and pages about how I think you're wrong on Carragher not being manager material. But I won't.

 

You're wrong.

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