Carra and Roy the media darlings?

[WaltonRed]

Jesus H. Christ

 

Some shite on this thread

[chauncey]

If we were in our prime, Carragher would have started to lose his place in the first team last year. He could have been put on the path to retirement gracefully, with fans, players and the manager all knowing a better player was coming in and replacing him. Now we've got to watch him slowly decay in front of our eyes, an undroppable behemoth.

 

Pointing out that the emperor has no clothes is not going to be welcomed universally on here. There are many that still pine for his flying tackles circa 2004-2007 and pretend that his game is as good as it ever was. Well those tackles have gone but the petulance he directs at those around him hasn't and neither has the hoofball. In time it could potentially become a large barrier to any rejuvenation of the club. Let's hope it doesn't.

 

Agreed. Carra is a bona fide Liverpool Legend (not 'leg', 'ledge' or some gay variation thereof) but it should not be heresy to point out that one of our captains has been struggling with Old Father Time for a while now*. It is heresy, mind.

 

Can't even be arsed with the Roy stuff anymore.

 

 

*re:the "wools hate Carra because he's a scouser" argument - he's not even from the city of Liverpool ffs!

Edited November 12, 2010 by chauncey

[WaltonRed]

Agreed. Carra is a bona fide Liverpool Legend (not 'leg', 'ledge' or some gay variation thereof) but it should not be heresy to point out that one of our captains has been struggling with Old Father Time for a while now*. It is heresy, mind.

 

Can't even be arsed with the Roy stuff anymore.

 

 

*re:the "wools hate Carra because he's a scouser" argument - he's not even from the city of Liverpool ffs!

 

He is.

 

Thommo not one then cos he's from Kirkby or Stevie from Huyton?

 

Behave yourself.

[chauncey]

He is.

 

Thommo not one then cos he's from Kirkby or Stevie from Huyton?

 

Behave yourself.

 

Apologies, Mr. WaltonRed (location: Walton, Liverpool L4) but I happen to be pedantically territorial about such matters.

 

It's a tiresome debate but Huyton and Kirkby aren't Liverpool. Them's the facts.

 

I think Kirkbyites and Huytonheads are scousers but not Liverpudlians - even though Southdene and the Johns might be more stereotypically 'scouse' than somewhere like L18, you can't argue with proximity.

[billypilgrimnz]

Problem is, Carragher is custom-made for Roy's tactics. So if you're like me and what Roy gone and a more positive outlook on the game, then Carragher is likely to be collateral damage as well. And I'm not too concerned about that.

[Trucker Paddy]

Carragher had played very well since Everton, last 2 games he was outstanding. Regarding Hodgson well I think it's obvious now that it's been a dodgy appointment, I think some of the shit said about him has been ridiculous, given were only 3 points worse off than last season and coasting through Europe I'm not saying the league form is acceptable either it's not.

If we'd been taken over in summer Roy wouldn't have got the job. The Cammoli appointment is the begining of the end for Roy, I believe Deschamp will get the job it's just a matter of when and most likely it'll be summer.

In summarising the criticism of Carragher is stupid, he's twice the player Agger will ever be and the club is in his blood, and he's playing at the same standerd he was 3 years ago.

I think Roy forgets who he's managing, as I've said I don't think there'll be a change till summer but it'll have to happen no matter what happens this season good or bad and it will happen, Roy doesn't come close to what Cammoli and NSEV want but there's no suitable replacement there now, if there was then I'd say ok fire him.

For people saying Dalglish till summer, if that happened and he done well but they'd lined Deschamp up there'd be outcry if Kenny was replaced, for that reason I think Dalglish will not be appointed shortterm

[dennis tooth]

Carragher has always hoofed the ball, no nonsense defending its got him over 600 games. Its what he has always done and mostly well so dont blame the managers tactics for that.

I dont think the manager is the answer either but stop making childish things up. But dont worry your not the only one.

 

Another one is the Aquilani debate. All of a sudden he is fucking brilliant and we miss him. Miss what? HE WAS FUCKING SHITE

 

People are coming out with utter bollocks and childish statements to state they want the manager out.

Just say you dont like the manager and you want him out coz people can then just say 'fair enough'

 

Dont make childish statements.

 

Bollocks mate, he doesn't hoof the ball if he has an option to play it to a cm or a wide man or his full backs push on. Not saying he is a cultured centre back but you only notice the hoof, not the 9 out of 10 times he plays a simple ball to someone else. It's about options and we have less passing options since Roy came in cos it's not his style to have possesion, for all our winning against Chelsea we had 30 odd percent possesion at home for example. Sorry but it's just Roy's style for th epast 35 years. Fact

Aqua never got any real run in the side and was in a new country and barely had enough time to take his socks off here but write him off like so many wrote Lucas off or Garcia off or Crouch or any other player that didn't start pulling up trees from day one. He is good enough to play in this team for me but Roy didn't give him a chance and then loaned him out and spent the best part of £20 m on another attacking centre mid. You can sit there and say he's not good enough now as he will never get a decent chance to prove his worth now, we have since signed Cole and Merieles, Spearing is more prominent and Lucas playing well and of course Poulsen so it's immaterial. I didn't see a single person say Aqua was the new messiah but only people noting his good form over in Italy and loooking like he will get a call up for the national team. People are looking at the shit we've served up in CM positions so far and wondering why we let a creative player go out on loan when we could have used or sold him but I'm sure you won't be shedding tears.

[RedinSweden]

The way Carragher screams at the young lads and the way Gerrard gives them looks of complete disgust does get on my nerves if I'm honest

 

If their self-belief is that flimsy, they won't make it at the top to be honest. Carragher screams at everyone.

[Hermes]

Bollocks mate, he doesn't hoof the ball if he has an option to play it to a cm.

 

It's not very ofter that a team mate is so close, hence the hoof.

[Get Carter]

Bollocks mate, he doesn't hoof the ball if he has an option to play it to a cm or a wide man or his full backs push on. Not saying he is a cultured centre back but you only notice the hoof, not the 9 out of 10 times he plays a simple ball to someone else. It's about options and we have less passing options since Roy came in cos it's not his style to have possesion, for all our winning against Chelsea we had 30 odd percent possesion at home for example. Sorry but it's just Roy's style for th epast 35 years. Fact

Aqua never got any real run in the side and was in a new country and barely had enough time to take his socks off here but write him off like so many wrote Lucas off or Garcia off or Crouch or any other player that didn't start pulling up trees from day one. He is good enough to play in this team for me but Roy didn't give him a chance and then loaned him out and spent the best part of £20 m on another attacking centre mid. You can sit there and say he's not good enough now as he will never get a decent chance to prove his worth now, we have since signed Cole and Merieles, Spearing is more prominent and Lucas playing well and of course Poulsen so it's immaterial. I didn't see a single person say Aqua was the new messiah but only people noting his good form over in Italy and loooking like he will get a call up for the national team. People are looking at the shit we've served up in CM positions so far and wondering why we let a creative player go out on loan when we could have used or sold him but I'm sure you won't be shedding tears.

 

I think the point he was making was Carraghers Style of defending has not changed in 14 years / 600 games he has played for Liverpool not that he has always hoofed the ball clear.

[Get Carter]

By the way i think the major difference that he may be going long in more recent seasons is that previously Alonsa used to come deep and collect a lot of ball from the centre halves obviously Lucas doesn't show as much as Alonso or even Hamann prior to him and isn't as confident receiving the ball all the time, this i think has contributed to Carragher being forced to go long more often than in the past

[goatboy59]

You could also have mentioned Sissoko and Mascherano.

 

We finished on Wednesday with Shelvey, Lucas, Poulsen and Eccleston.

 

If we want to find 'barriers to playing decent football' I suspect we won't be looking at the number 23 first, but then that wasn't the intention of the OP anyway.

[PaulMcC]

I don't think carra has always hoofed it as much as he has done the past 2 seasons.

 

maybe it's cos we've been mostly playing poorly he feels safer getting it forward quickly and starting again.

 

In 2005-2007 he played the ball on the ground a lot more and would even come out of defence with it the odd time.

[Major Tom]

I agree with your sentiments on Woy vs. Rafa. I find it very hard to see Woy as anything other than a slightly more pleasant version of Obese Sam - i.e. an English saviour, a media darling, a Sky Sports hero...you know what I mean. Rafa fought for this club, he defended us, he would never smile shaking ginger's hand after a defeat. Even now from Italy he is doing his best to still defend us. A proper legend, and one who never spoke bullshit - his only fault when it came to being loved by those in high places.

 

RAWK will love you.

[Hermes]

Rafa fought for this club, he defended us, he would never smile shaking ginger's hand after a defeat. Even now from Italy he is doing his best to still defend us. A proper legend, and one who never spoke bullshit - his only fault when it came to being loved by those in high places.

 

He loved the club so much that he spent his last 6 months here negotiating with at least two other clubs, while his current team were floundering.

[dennis tooth]

By the way i think the major difference that he may be going long in more recent seasons is that previously Alonsa used to come deep and collect a lot of ball from the centre halves obviously Lucas doesn't show as much as Alonso or even Hamann prior to him and isn't as confident receiving the ball all the time, this i think has contributed to Carragher being forced to go long more often than in the past

 

Exactly what I am talking about here, look at the for and against possesion stats for each game and compare it to what it has been for the past 5 years.

 

I'm not talking clearances either, clearing your lines is not about beauty its for clearing, I think we were talking about bringing the ball out when we are not under the cosh. One look at Poulsen asking for the ball from you, and suddenly hoofing it up to Torres seems like a genius idea if you're in Carra's boots.

[dennis tooth]

He loved the club so much that he spent his last 6 months here negotiating with at least two other clubs, while his current team were floundering.

 

Hearsay heresey.

[Hermes]

Exactly what I am talking about here, look at the for and against possesion stats for each game and compare it to what it has been for the past 5 years.

 

I'm not talking clearances either, clearing your lines is not about beauty its for clearing, I think we were talking about bringing the ball out when we are not under the cosh. One look at Poulsen asking for the ball from you, and suddenly hoofing it up to Torres seems like a genius idea if you're in Carra's boots.

 

A valid point if all the other defenders were doing the same, but they're not.

[Hermes]

Hearsay heresey.

 

Hearsay? His agent admitted it months before he left here. The only reason he hung on for so long was to ensure a massive pay off.

[ngogswilly]

Hearsay? His agent admitted it months before he left here. The only reason he hung on for so long was to ensure a massive pay off.

 

Hermes, fuck sakes man. Thats just bollox. He could have fucked us about big time and got paid off alot more. But he took the deal Purslow shafted him with.

Just to add, I wanted him gone before some numpty jumps in saying I love him or some shite.

 

I rarely get involved in this Rafa debate because I was happy enough to see him go last season but some of the shite that gets bandied about as fact is just fucking annoying.

[Get Carter]

A valid point if all the other defenders were doing the same, but they're not.

 

Skrtel and The Greek are hardly coming out of defence Hansen like are they

 

I dont Carragher was ever a ball playing centre half Hyypia and Agger have always been the footballers Carragher did the basics very well and his positional play and overall leadership qualities are what makes him what he is. Without a doubt over the last 18 months the quality of player around him has reduced considerably I would see this as the main reason his game has changed not his legs going!!!

[goatboy59]

Hearsay? His agent admitted it months before he left here. The only reason he hung on for so long was to ensure a massive pay off.

 

To be fair his agent mentioned a "China bid" for the club in April, around the time he was tying himself in knots about meetings in Turin; first he wasn't there, then he was but he wasn't talking about Rafa etc.

 

I think Rafa badgered Broughton about Huang because he and his agent had been told he was central to their plans post-takeover, which I think is one of the reasons why Tony Evans (and others) went so gung-ho over it, to their silent embarrassment ever since.

 

That says to me that Rafa wanted to stay if there were new owners that could give him what he wanted.

 

Nowt wrong with back-up, he's a professional not a Liverpool die-hard (despite the mythology since) and once Mourinho had made his future clear - early May? - Inter would have been on the radar as well.

[Bogman]

yup, Rafa wanted his pay-off so much, he gave the majority of it away to various charities, the nasty, nasty man.

[goatboy59]

he gave the majority of it away to various charities, the nasty, nasty man.

 

Don't be daft.