André Villas Boas (Manager)

[Gym Beglin]

Funnneeee, you are such a bad Bellend. You're making a decent point about player power but do you have to absolutely slaughter Gerrard and Carragher in the process? The worst thing is I know exactly why you (and others) do it; and it fucking stinks.

 

I'm just saying it as I see it.

There's no smoke without fire, and those two have been opinionated when it suits, and quiet as doormice when it doesn't.

Seeing Gerrard as England captain just underlines how close he was with Hodgson, a man who should never, ever, have gotten near this job, but somehow...fucking somehow...did.

 

Carragher's also shown his political side, in fact, there;s a youtube vid of him getting involved in politcal party stuff a couple of years back, it's very obvious he's not stupid, he's not a shrinking violet, and he's taking his coaching badges. Now I dont mind that, I quite like the idea of Carragher being involved at this club in a managerial/coaching capacity, but I'd be very wary of a player playing under me who was doing all that.

 

I dont see Scholes or Giggs taking coaching badges or getting involved in bits and pieces like that. In fact, you listen to them speak in interviews and you'd think they were youth players, such is the lack of pretence or authority in their voices, they are merely players for Ferguson who rules absolutely.

 

You can't sit there and call Terry and Lampard a cunt, and then defend Gerrard and Carragher and expect them to be any different behind the scenes. Why would they be? I don't see two cockneys and two scousers, I see four professional footballers who have all been at their clubs for 10 years or more and who have very good friends in the media world.

 

Open your eyes Moof. We were flying over to speak with Gerrard about who our new manager should be in 2004, when the lad was 24 years old. That's what he's become accustomed to, and it's a problem of our making, and probably that of Struan Marshall's as well.

[moof]

I'm just saying it as I see it.

There's no smoke without fire, and those two have been opinionated when it suits, and quiet as doormice when it doesn't.

Seeing Gerrard as England captain just underlines how close he was with Hodgson, a man who should never, ever, have gotten near this job, but somehow...fucking somehow...did.

 

Carragher's also shown his political side, in fact, there;s a youtube vid of him getting involved in politcal party stuff a couple of years back, it's very obvious he's not stupid, he's not a shrinking violet, and he's taking his coaching badges. Now I dont mind that, I quite like the idea of Carragher being involved at this club in a managerial/coaching capacity, but I'd be very wary of a player playing under me who was doing all that.

 

I dont see Scholes or Giggs taking coaching badges or getting involved in bits and pieces like that. In fact, you listen to them speak in interviews and you'd think they were youth players, such is the lack of pretence or authority in their voices, they are merely players for Ferguson who rules absolutely.

 

You can't sit there and call Terry and Lampard a cunt, and then defend Gerrard and Carragher and expect them to be any different behind the scenes. Why would they be? I don't see two cockneys and two scousers, I see four professional footballers who have all been at their clubs for 10 years or more and who have very good friends in the media world.

 

Open your eyes Moof. We were flying over to speak with Gerrard about who our new manager should be in 2004, when the lad was 24 years old. That's what he's become accustomed to, and it's a problem of our making, and probably that of Struan Marshall's as well.

 

Hard to argue with any of that tbf; however the idea that they are only in it for themselves is not something I buy into.

[Guest the boy]

I'm just saying it as I see it.

There's no smoke without fire, and those two have been opinionated when it suits, and quiet as doormice when it doesn't.

Seeing Gerrard as England captain just underlines how close he was with Hodgson, a man who should never, ever, have gotten near this job, but somehow...fucking somehow...did.

 

Carragher's also shown his political side, in fact, there;s a youtube vid of him getting involved in politcal party stuff a couple of years back, it's very obvious he's not stupid, he's not a shrinking violet, and he's taking his coaching badges. Now I dont mind that, I quite like the idea of Carragher being involved at this club in a managerial/coaching capacity, but I'd be very wary of a player playing under me who was doing all that.

 

I dont see Scholes or Giggs taking coaching badges or getting involved in bits and pieces like that. In fact, you listen to them speak in interviews and you'd think they were youth players, such is the lack of pretence or authority in their voices, they are merely players for Ferguson who rules absolutely.

 

You can't sit there and call Terry and Lampard a cunt, and then defend Gerrard and Carragher and expect them to be any different behind the scenes. Why would they be? I don't see two cockneys and two scousers, I see four professional footballers who have all been at their clubs for 10 years or more and who have very good friends in the media world.

 

Open your eyes Moof. We were flying over to speak with Gerrard about who our new manager should be in 2004, when the lad was 24 years old. That's what he's become accustomed to, and it's a problem of our making, and probably that of Struan Marshall's as well.

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

I'd welcome a Ferguson dictatorship, ruled by American owners from afar so long as they continue to invest in the club. I've had enough of sentimentality and the poisonous influences of the players. Unlike Chelsea, we do not have the hundreds of millions of outside-funds to carry it off. The mettle of the new manager will be proven by his treatment of Carragher & Gerrard. No more indulgence of players whose deals no longer reflect their contribution to the club, regardless of their past accomplishments. Return the streak of ruthlessness - the true 'liverpool way' - to the club.

[Brownie]

I don't believe that it's in the Liverpool Way to treat our legends ruthlessly.

[The Guest]

I don't believe that it's in the Liverpool Way to treat our legends ruthlessly.

 

Then your a bit mental. It's been happening since shankly, famously.

[Brownie]

 

Then your a bit mental. It's been happening since shankly, famously.

 

Depends on what you class ruthless doesn't it? I'm aware that club legends have been sold before (often before they believe they're past their best).

[Guest the boy]

Only the club endures. If the presence of overpaid, under-performing senior players (in which I include Gerrard on the form of 3 injury-ravaged seasons now as our highest paid player in which he has scored a total of 18 league goals) is a hinderance then we should shed ourselves of them. Or do you disagree? Would you have us be a bloated retirement home, ruled over by management and players whose abilities in the present do not reflect their wage?

 

This club would not have achieved the success it did had it not been ruthless when required.

[Paco]

we're going to dither and dither, avb etc will lose interest or find other roles and we'll end up with martinez being appointed in a panic.

[Brownie]

Only the club endures. If the presence of overpaid, under-performing senior players (in which I include Gerrard on the form of 3 injury-ravaged seasons now as our highest paid player in which he has scored a total of 18 leagues) is a hinderance then we should shed ourselves of them. Or do you disagree? Would you have us be a bloated retirement home, ruled over by management and players whose abilities in the present do not reflect their wage?

 

Yes, that's exactly what I said mate. Almost to the word.

[Gym Beglin]

We've not been able to build a new side, from fresh, for a long time.

 

Each time we've tried, there has been a proviso, and that is that that team features Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher. Politics aside, there are playing issues that have related to them both for a while now.

Gerrard seems incapable of playing in the middle, complained about being out on the right as well, and seemingly only likes and plays well when behind a striker. Well of course that then limits us in terms of what formation we can play.

He seemingly insists on taking all set pieces, despite his height, but that's another matter.

 

And then there's Carragher and his lack of pace and his tendency to sit deep and defend, and his stratospheric distribution. At times his passing can be excellent, but mostly it;s not. I dont often hear him praised for his distribution, but I thought I'd be fair and note it, he can pick a long range pass at times.

 

But the problem has remained, build a team around these two players, whose influence on a football game has waned severely in the last 3 years.

 

Just for once, I'd like to see a manager given a chance to build something in his own image, and not be tied to those two.

 

 

In terms of treating them ruthlessly, well it's not a policy statement, it's totally dependant on how those players see themselves. If they accept a lessening role and will play where asked, then they can be treated gracefully and respectfully and carry on at this club and be adored.

If they dont change and expect the club and the team to revolve around them, then we have to nip that in the bud, and yes that could be ruthless.

[The Guest]

Only the club endures. If the presence of overpaid, under-performing senior players (in which I include Gerrard on the form of 3 injury-ravaged seasons now as our highest paid player in which he has scored a total of 18 league goals) is a hinderance then we should shed ourselves of them. Or do you disagree? Would you have us be a bloated retirement home, ruled over by management and players whose abilities in the present do not reflect their wage?

 

This club would not have achieved the success it did had it not been ruthless when required.

 

Gerrards still the talisman and still our best midfielder and that's why he won't get sold. His presence at the club also still attracts players here. Anyone that thinks we should get rid of Gerrard is a fucking idiot or has got a problem with him which I'm guessing is something to do with Benitez as it always is.

 

It always ends up being a stick to beat Gerrard with, that he hasn't saved our arses enough times recently so get shut. He's our best player and because he had that side to his game for a number of years people expect him to produce all the time so we when he doesn't it's not good enough. He's still doing a lot more than most of the other players on the pitch nearly every game but no he hasn't scored enough goals so fuck him off. Embarrassing.

[Ne Moe Imya]

Only the club endures. If the presence of overpaid, under-performing senior players (in which I include Gerrard on the form of 3 injury-ravaged seasons now as our highest paid player in which he has scored a total of 18 league goals) is a hinderance then we should shed ourselves of them. Or do you disagree? Would you have us be a bloated retirement home, ruled over by management and players whose abilities in the present do not reflect their wage?

 

This club would not have achieved the success it did had it not been ruthless when required.

 

I agree that Gerrard is probably a bit overpaid relative to his value to the club on the pitch, but I think you're ignoring the PR disaster that would accompany us putting him up for sale, especially this summer when everything else is balanced on a knife-edge.

 

How much would we get for him, anyway? I'd be surprised if someone wanted to pay us 20 million for an injury-prone, slightly past his best Gerrard on huge wages. I don't want us running a "retirement home," but we wouldn't get anywhere near what it would cost to replace him, so let's leave him alone. I think he'll still be an important player for us 2 years from now.

[Gym Beglin]

Gerrards still the talisman and still our best midfielder and that's why he won't get sold. .

 

On reputation, he's our best midfielder.

 

In actuality, Lucas is far more important.

 

And all our midfielders are better than him when he's injured and unable to play, which is becoming more and more often.

 

 

I'm not interested in legend, I'm interested in facts, in what really is the picture here.

[The Guest]

We've not been able to build a new side, from fresh, for a long time.

 

Each time we've tried, there has been a proviso, and that is that that team features Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher. Politics aside, there are playing issues that have related to them both for a while now.

Gerrard seems incapable of playing in the middle, complained about being out on the right as well, and seemingly only likes and plays well when behind a striker. Well of course that then limits us in terms of what formation we can play.

He seemingly insists on taking all set pieces, despite his height, but that's another matter.

 

And then there's Carragher and his lack of pace and his tendency to sit deep and defend, and his stratospheric distribution. At times his passing can be excellent, but mostly it;s not. I dont often hear him praised for his distribution, but I thought I'd be fair and note it, he can pick a long range pass at times.

 

But the problem has remained, build a team around these two players, whose influence on a football game has waned severely in the last 3 years.

 

Just for once, I'd like to see a manager given a chance to build something in his own image, and not be tied to those two.

 

 

In terms of treating them ruthlessly, well it's not a policy statement, it's totally dependant on how those players see themselves. If they accept a lessening role and will play where asked, then they can be treated gracefully and respectfully and carry on at this club and be adored.

If they dont change and expect the club and the team to revolve around them, then we have to nip that in the bud, and yes that could be ruthless.

 

The biggest load of nonsense I've read since I last read a post by code. It's like youve tried to come up with every false cliche you could think of about Gerrard.

 

For a start we haven't been trying to build a side for ages. We've been trying to add players to a decent foundation. The problem is players kept on leaving as well. Each season since Benitez left the best player at the club who is still the best midfielder in England has been picked there. If you were trying build a side here and you didn't want it built around Gerrard anyway never mind at least have him included you would be the most mental cunt of all time. I cannot stand these people who have issues with him playing its fucking embarrassing.

 

He's quite clearly not incapable of playing in the middle. He's done it for most of his career. He made his name being the best box to box midfielder in world football. It's only divvys who think a centre mids role is to sit ten yards in front of the centre halves and not move all game that think he's incapable. You know what, he could do that with his eyes closed but then you would get knob heads saying he's not scoring who doing anything else so fuck him off. Hs also come out and said he's willing to play anywhere for the team, in the past he wants to play in the middle but now he's older he will do a job anywhere.

 

He insists on taking all set pieces? Are you literally blind? How many times did you see Bellamy, Downing and Adam take this season over Gerrard?

 

Carra I will accept is gone but it's hardly been a proviso that he must play. He played under Hodgson because he quite clearly didn't rate Agger and under Kenny he was dropped and a young centre half was signed on top of that.

[The Guest]

On reputation, he's our best midfielder.

 

In actuality, Lucas is far more important.

 

And all our midfielders are better than him when he's injured and unable to play, which is becoming more and more often.

 

 

I'm not interested in legend, I'm interested in facts, in what really is the picture here.

 

Absolutely laughable. The sad thing is you probably actually believe that. A guy who basically stands in front of defence all game and doesnt even do that very well and offers nothing going forward is better than our best tackler, passer, crosser and finisher. You're having a laugh really. If Gerrard did what Lucas did every game there would be fucking uproar. I thought Lucas had the best games he played for us just up until he got injured but the love in for him is just beyond sense.

 

The defence didn't too badly all season with or without Lucas in it. I really don't think he impacts the game that much.

[Brownie]

 

Absolutely laughable. The sad thing is you probably actually believe that. A guy who basically stands in front of defence all game and doesnt even do that very well and offers nothing going forward is better than our best tackler, passer, crosser and finisher. You're having a laugh really. If Gerrard did what Lucas did every game there would be fucking uproar. I thought Lucas had the best games he played for us just up until he got injured but the love in for him is just beyond sense.

 

The defence didn't too badly all season with or without Lucas in it. I really don't think he impacts the game that much.

 

I'd say the biggest reason why Lucas was missed was because of his ability to win the ball back quickly and provide the creative players with the ball in better positions, rather than shielding the back four.

[The Guest]

I'd say the biggest reason why Lucas was missed was because of his ability to win the ball back quickly and provide the creative players with the ball in better positions, rather than shielding the back four.

 

Another myth in my opinion. Lucas never regularly plays the ball quickly to the forwards or the wide players in better positions never mind quicker than any of the other midfielders. Gerrard, Spearing, Adam, Henderson and Shelvey all do this whether successful or unsuccessful. Lucas doesn't even attempt it.

 

Lucas plays the ball sideways and backwards a lot and he is apparently keeping it simple which the other midfielders could learn a lot from. Now that we didnt concede that many goals but had problems scoring and it's because Lucas wasn't there because he gets the ball to our attacking players a lot quicker. You can't have it both ways.

 

We got the ball to our wide players and our forwards perfectly fine. We created lots of chances. It was our finishing and our final ball that let the side down. Lucas wasn't even missed.

[RobbieOR]

Fuck me. What a load my arse.

[piscinin]

Another myth in my opinion. Lucas never regularly plays the ball quickly to the forwards or the wide players in better positions never mind quicker than any of the other midfielders. Gerrard, Spearing, Adam, Henderson and Shelvey all do this whether successful or unsuccessful. Lucas doesn't even attempt it.

 

Lucas plays the ball sideways and backwards a lot and he is apparently keeping it simple which the other midfielders could learn a lot from. Now that we didnt concede that many goals but had problems scoring and it's because Lucas wasn't there because he gets the ball to our attacking players a lot quicker. You can't have it both ways.

 

We got the ball to our wide players and our forwards perfectly fine. We created lots of chances. It was our finishing and our final ball that let the side down. Lucas wasn't even missed.

 

This is surely a parody of TLW 2007

[Jairzinho]

Its seems a little unnecessary to pretend Lucas isn't brilliant in order to defend Gerrard, or vice versa. They're both excellent players. Any manager we get is clearly going to want both players to have key roles in the team.

 

We've missed both of them massively this season. Without Lucas we rarely keep a clean sheet, whilst we were regularly up until November. Without Gerrard we seem completely reliant on Suarez to create something out of nothing.

 

Despite an obvious lack of quality wide players, and a clinical striker, just having these two back for the majority of next season will ensure we finish with far more than 52 points.

[usernameunknown]

Another myth in my opinion. Lucas never regularly plays the ball quickly to the forwards or the wide players in better positions never mind quicker than any of the other midfielders. Gerrard, Spearing, Adam, Henderson and Shelvey all do this whether successful or unsuccessful. Lucas doesn't even attempt it.

 

Lucas plays the ball sideways and backwards a lot and he is apparently keeping it simple which the other midfielders could learn a lot from. Now that we didnt concede that many goals but had problems scoring and it's because Lucas wasn't there because he gets the ball to our attacking players a lot quicker. You can't have it both ways.

 

We got the ball to our wide players and our forwards perfectly fine. We created lots of chances. It was our finishing and our final ball that let the side down. Lucas wasn't even missed.

 

Wow! One of the worst posts I've ever seen.

[Guest TK-421]

Whose guest is it?

[Brownie]

 

Another myth in my opinion. Lucas never regularly plays the ball quickly to the forwards or the wide players in better positions never mind quicker than any of the other midfielders. Gerrard, Spearing, Adam, Henderson and Shelvey all do this whether successful or unsuccessful. Lucas doesn't even attempt it.

 

Lucas plays the ball sideways and backwards a lot and he is apparently keeping it simple which the other midfielders could learn a lot from. Now that we didnt concede that many goals but had problems scoring and it's because Lucas wasn't there because he gets the ball to our attacking players a lot quicker. You can't have it both ways.

 

We got the ball to our wide players and our forwards perfectly fine. We created lots of chances. It was our finishing and our final ball that let the side down. Lucas wasn't even missed.

 

I couldn't disagree more to be honest so we'll leave it there.

[esoteric]

Blah blah blah blah blah..I'm guessing is something to do with Benitez as it always is.

 

It always ends up being a stick to beat Gerrard with.. Blah blah blah blah. Embarrassing.

 

Embarrassing indeed.

[JohnnyH]

Another myth in my opinion. Lucas never regularly plays the ball quickly to the forwards or the wide players in better positions never mind quicker than any of the other midfielders. Gerrard, Spearing, Adam, Henderson and Shelvey all do this whether successful or unsuccessful. Lucas doesn't even attempt it.

 

Lucas plays the ball sideways and backwards a lot and he is apparently keeping it simple which the other midfielders could learn a lot from. Now that we didnt concede that many goals but had problems scoring and it's because Lucas wasn't there because he gets the ball to our attacking players a lot quicker. You can't have it both ways.

 

We got the ball to our wide players and our forwards perfectly fine. We created lots of chances. It was our finishing and our final ball that let the side down. Lucas wasn't even missed.

 

What???

 

Are people still coming out with this rubbish?

 

Mate, try watching the game. This myth that he gets the ball and looks to pass backwards or just sits in front of the back 4 is just daft and lazy. I say lazy because it’s only ever said now by Liverpool fans who eat up comments from TV commentators who don’t actually watch our full games.

 

Lucas started out life as an attacking midfielder. He then became an utterly lost defensive midfielder. But as he has found his feet in his newer position, he has started melding with the attacking side and now gets forward a lot more. He’s not running into the box, but he supplementing the attacking play considerably. I doubt there is a better defensive midfielder in the league who also contributes to the start of attacking play.

 

Anyone, and there’s a few fucking dopes on here, but anyone still talking down Lucas’s ability and benefit to the team deserves to be laughed at. Not abused, but just laughed at.