Rafa Benitez not to blame for Liverpool FC's awful start

[Timão]

What I do not understand, seriously, is this personality cult which has been built up around Rafa.

 

He was great for us, but so were Shanks, Sir Bob, Fagan, Kenny etc.

 

In the league, he gave us one genuine title challenge, which is the same as Evans gave us...and we played some great football under him, too. There is 2005, obviously, and for that alone he will always be a legend, but league-wise he was not much better than either Evans or Houllier, steady with one very good year and one very bad year, Evans was booted out after finishing 3rd, ffs.

 

This club has survived FAR worse than Rafa leaving and will go on, it might even bounce back. The bottom line is that, if the decision was made on pure sporting grounds, you could have made a very good argument for keeping him after one bad year. BUT, and this is where I always get fed up, Rafa was clearly playing a political game, as was everbody else. He knows exactly what he is doing with all these things, just like he knew last season or the season before.

 

'I don't want to talk about Liverpool, but...'

'I don't wanto to talk about Juve, but...'

'I don't want to talk about the new contract, but...'

 

He played the same game at Valencia and, regradless of his abilities as a coach, which are beyond question, when he does so too many times there is only ever going to be one winner. Any mnanager is an employee of the club, and nothing more. Personally, I think Rafa thrives on these things, it is in his nature. Ferguson has the same thing, but he does it with the media rather than his employers.

 

Let's have a debate about OUR club and OUR manager by all means, but let's leave Rafa out of it. He is gone and has enough on his plate to be getting on with.

[Timão]

Mourinho; has always gone to clubs with massive investment in the teams either prior to his reign or during. Fantastic coach; no doubt and his achievement at Porto still stand head and shoulders of anything else he's done in the game. But Chelsea winning the title is no shocker; nor is Inter; or even Real who have spent in excess of £400m to create their team. He's taking teams on from a relative safe position. I'd like to see how he does in an unstable team with unrealistic expectation with little investment.

 

And that old chestnut again: Mourinho led Porto to the CL and Uefa Cup and 2league titles in 2 years. Porto do not have massive investment, they are not even the richest club in Portugal, ffs.

 

I can't stand the man, but to try and belittle his achievements to score a point for Rafa is just pathetic.

[Antynwa]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Maybe if he spent more time on his side rather than Roy Hodgson he might have won. Thats the thing with Rafa, he's easy to wind up, and he's always fighting someone.

[RSM]

Left them with a league title and a UEFA Cup, right?

 

I can see one slight difference between them and us.

 

No one is arguing he wasn't a vital component, either for them or for us. What we were discussing is the idea that Rafa thrives under stable, secure hierarchy. No argument, except for when people say he becomes a secure, stable individual himself.

 

But they're all vital components aren't they? Pako, Alonso, Heighway etc.

 

2 La Liga's and 1 Uefa Cup. With no Alonso either.

 

Rafa's a control freak; it upsets some people. It's a strength as much as it is a flaw. His record speaks for itself.

[RSM]

Wouldn't it be more enlightening to look at those same clubs before he arrived?

 

Chelsea; finished second prior to his arrival.. on the road to achieving the title with or without him in my view. Spent big as soon as he arrived to consolidate that. Grant took over came second and was a spot kick away from winning the CL. The Chelsea machine continues to tick over winning titles and reaching later stages of CL with several managers appointed. Abramovich the key driver.

 

Inter; champions in the previous 3 seasons with Mancini. No rivals to speak of in Italy due to calpoli scandal. Significant investment in additional players and a good CL win.

 

Madrid; £300-£400m worth of investment in the recent past. Pelligerini restles control of a changing room from ageing stars and finishes second achieving over 100pts total only to be pipped by the best and most consistent Barca team in history. Mourinho arrives with further investment into the team.

[El_Ménco]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Maybe if he spent more time on his side rather than Roy Hodgson he might have won. Thats the thing with Rafa, he's easy to wind up, and he's always fighting someone.

 

I would much rather Rafa always fighting someone and being easy to wind up (although I'm not sure that's entirely accurate) over Hodgson constantly talking about himself being such a fantastic manager, whilst at the same time making snide remarks about other managers who have achieved what he could only dream of.

[Whelan]

No one is arguing he wasn't a vital component, either for them or for us. What we were discussing is the idea that Rafa thrives under stable, secure hierarchy. No argument, except for when people say he becomes a secure, stable individual himself.

 

But they're all vital components aren't they? Pako, Alonso, Heighway etc.

 

The problem is that we never had a stable environment from the moment he walked in through the door!

 

He was told the club was looking for investment, so be patient! Remember his comments regarding Fowler returning? He was quite relaxed, understood the money situation and didn't see it as a hinderence.

 

But the Parasites were supposed to end that, they were supposed to be the final peice that made everything right, and they didn't. You can't look at all the incidents in isolation because three months after Rafa had led us to the Champions league final they wanted to replace him, and that shows what life was like, that isn't an isolated incident it is an example, a microcosom of their ownership.

 

Even the infamous close season in 2009, rather than say earlier 'yes we are skint and you are going to have to sell to buy', they said nothing and it was only when enquiries about Turner where ongoing did he realise he had no money at all. The money is one aspect of that summer, the lack of planning afforded is another and probably more significant one, yet the arguments focussed on the money, both for and against.

 

The problem is that you don't seem to understand that in extreme circumstances, as this club was enduring under Hicks and Gillett, you will be very lucky to not get extreme reactions. Personally I was so against Hicks and Gillett that I just did not, and do not, view Rafa's behaviour as being anything other than a reaction to their ownership, I could not seperate the two situations, so I would react angrily to what I saw as unwarranted criticism, unlike Ged and Roy, I wasn't prepared to compromise, which more than likely infuriated people who were trying to be objective. This isn't an excuse, I am trying to be honest about how I viewed the criticism, it was difficult to seperate the criticism of Rafa as a manager with the circumstances that he was working under. It isn't right or helpful, but that is how I was seeing the situation.

 

If you don't mind me offering a criticism, that is what I think you don't realise, the extreme nature of the reactions in both directions was a direct result of the americans ownership and not necessarily because of an undeserved idolatry with Rafa, to me he was a symptom of Hicks and Gillett.

 

Hodgson was always up against it, because he was a nothing appointment, and his behaviour in little over three months does not warrant any support, he has fallen out with players, sacrificed youngsters after Northampton, and certainly told mistruths about Kenny and Rafa. And in my opinion has deliberately set out to lessen expectations simply to cover his own failings. But again, he is a symptom, his appointment was made for non footballing reasons, just like every other decision made by Hicks and Gillett. Sadly for Roy, he is the last remaining monument to their regime.

[goatboy59]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Stop it, mate.

 

Please.

[RSM]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Maybe if he spent more time on his side rather than Roy Hodgson he might have won. Thats the thing with Rafa, he's easy to wind up, and he's always fighting someone.

 

Are you buzzing that we're 12th and have just left the relegation zone?

 

have you finsihed your "in Roy we trust banner" yet?

[RSM]

And that old chestnut again: Mourinho led Porto to the CL and Uefa Cup and 2league titles in 2 years. Porto do not have massive investment, they are not even the richest club in Portugal, ffs.

 

I can't stand the man, but to try and belittle his achievements to score a point for Rafa is just pathetic.

 

have a read of what i said:

 

his achievement at Porto still stand head and shoulders above anything else he's done in the game.

[Spartacus]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Maybe if he spent more time on his side rather than Roy Hodgson he might have won. Thats the thing with Rafa, he's easy to wind up, and he's always fighting someone.

You would rather S*n Loving, Yank apologist flobber chops won than a legendary ex manager of ours? Blooming Norah!

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Maybe if he spent more time on his side rather than Roy Hodgson he might have won. Thats the thing with Rafa, he's easy to wind up, and he's always fighting someone.

 

Just can't help yourself can you Ant.

[RSM]

You would rather S*n Loving, Yank apologist flobber chops won than a legendary ex manager of ours? Blooming Norah!

 

Antynwa: "Yeah but good old arry is English innit and I don't like that fat Spanish waiter."

[Liverpool lad]

Here is how I see it. Benitez came, moved us on as a club, then some key personnel left, the Americans came, Rafa had too much power and nobody to keep him in line, it was time for him to go, he bought a lot of shit and gave them mega wages, but Roy should be doing better with the squad he has. Hopefully Roy has turned the corner.

[goatboy59]

 

If you don't mind me offering a criticism, that is what I think you don't realise, the extreme nature of the reactions in both directions was a direct result of the americans ownership and not necessarily because of an undeserved idolatry with Rafa, to me he was a symptom of Hicks and Gillett.

 

 

Of course not. At least you're civil.

 

But as I've said before you can't wipe Valencia away and how he reacted to a refusal of control. I thought he would just have taken the Liverpool job anyhow, because it's bigger and better, but he got offered certain things and reacted badly when he didn't ultimately get all of them. No compromise, not a single one.

 

But that happens sometimes in football clubs. We went neck and neck with United, and they lost Ronaldo and Tevez. They still competed, we didn't, that does not reflect well on the manager thought there are other factors.

 

With no CL funds and bigger debt payments, those arguments were only going to become bigger and far more bitter, and he decided Inter was a better option.

 

I'd have had more respect for him if he'd said that, and any Liverpool fan giving him grief for it would be an utter twat.

 

But he didn't, and so 5 months later we still go round and round.

 

It's a collective achievement and a collective failure. Look at the people who played for Shankly and advised him. He had a pretty healthy ego too.

 

Things turned for Houllier after Bergues left, no one thinks that was the sole cause, but when fans turn round and make religious iconography out of coaches there is always the risk that man's head is turned and not for good. Huang's deal was on the table but only if Benitez stayed. Did Rafa truly believe that? I suspect so, certainly his closest idolators did.

 

Worship is what we're about, but for everyone that contributed not just one person. It's clear some refuse to acknowledge that.

 

Maybe the new owners, new CEO and (yes) new manager can revive that sensibility.

 

Or this absolute farce keeps on perpetuating itself.

[dirk grout]

Buzzing he lost last night.

 

Maybe if he spent more time on his side rather than Roy Hodgson he might have won. Thats the thing with Rafa, he's easy to wind up, and he's always fighting someone.

 

Cunt.

[Antynwa]

Just can't help yourself can you Ant.

 

I'm sorry. But I can't stand him and I can't stand the love in for him.

 

Guilty as charged.

[DJLJ]

Spot on chap.

 

It really isn't. Go look at the amount of vitriol and abuse Houllier got before Rafa.

[RSM]

Cunt.

 

Spot on chap.

[RSM]

It really isn't. Go look at the amount of vitriol and abuse Houllier got before Rafa.

 

"Allowing a small crowd of boo-boys to get away with their bullshit" it's always the same.

[RSM]

I'm sorry. But I can't stand him and I can't stand the love in for him.

 

Guilty as charged.

 

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/blogs/antynwa/28-doom-gloom-board-room-hope-guidance-dressing-room.html

 

Everytime I read that; I realise what a monstorously stupid fucktard you really are.

 

You really have sense and insight on what's good for this club don't you?

[RED Tezza]

I'm sorry. But I can't stand him and I can't stand the love in for him.

 

Guilty as charged.

 

how fucking childish are you? "I can't stand him" boo hoo christ it's like reading a post from my 17 month old daughter.

[Trumo]

how fucking childish are you? "I can't stand him" boo hoo christ it's like reading a post from my 17 month old daughter.

 

Get her enrolled in a top school now. You could have a child prodigy on your hands.

[DJLJ]

"Allowing a small crowd of boo-boys to get away with their bullshit" it's always the same.

 

boo-boys who have disgraced themselves in the way they handled themselves over Benitez. And once that kind of shit was allowed to stand, you can't stop it resurfacing again and again.

 

More on this. It didn't start with Rafa.

[Malarkey]

People who love Rafa:

 

It was Rafa's team who won the European Cup, not Houlliers. It's Roy Hodgson's team that's failing now, not Rafa's.

 

People who hate Rafa:

 

It was Houlliers team that won the Champions League. It's Rafa's team that's failing for Hodgson, now.

 

I just don't know what to do with myself if I'm being honest.