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Tail between the legs time...


Staniola
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Thank god we have Roy Hodgson, Joe 'Better than Messi' Cole & Paul Konchesky to weather this storm.

 

Hugely unfair on Cole - I've never seen him described as better than Messi, and he seems to be playing within himself. And nobody expected Konchesky to be a world beater.

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Rafa is no longer here and his management is history. Whether or not he should have been removed is another question.

 

Hodgson is and was the wrong apppointment. The fact is that not only is he not doing any better he is doing a lot worse. A factual statement. Whether you wanted Rafa to stay or not doesnt change this.

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I feel we need to let this go. It's plain to see the Rafapologists were correct all along when they were telling the antirafa's how things would turn out if he was let go.

 

Come on be realistic if you were an antirafa would you really have the nads to say yes hands up I'm a clueless cunt and helped to assist in the demise of this once great club.

 

I didn't realise when I was saying stuff like top managers, broken glass, anyone can do better that I was a cuntsniff of the highest order.

I'm sorry Rafa please come back.

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I was a Rafa supporter but he's gone and honestly with all the shit he was getting off the press and also an increasing number of fans I suppose it was time for him to go (for his own well being as much as for anything else) I now really want to move forward, Rafa isnt coming back, but jeez its bloody hard when those same media hacks and fans are blaming everything about where we are now still on Rafa.

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This is a misleading statement.

 

Both Loew and Rafa essentially share the same philosophy on attacking- that is, exploit those golden moments right after the opposition loses the ball, using a quick transition from defense to attack, to score goals with incisive movement and speed. Call it counterattacking but it's more developed than that, because the rest of their strategy does not involve sitting back and waiting for the opponent to make a mistake. Rather it is more about pressing, forcing errors high up on the pitch, and possession at the back to control the tempo.

 

Really there are many similarities between Loew's and Rafa's tactical philosophies, with Rafa perhaps emphasizing possession more and Loew preaching a slightly more offensive outlook.

 

What neither of these men play is the purely possession-based, systematic tikki-takka of Spain and Barcelona, where passing is emphasized over movement, shape is generally conservative, and the ball is relentlessly pinged around the danger zones until a gap appears.

 

I don't disagree with most of what you said, except that Rafa's style not being purely possession based etc. I believe that was Rafa's goal, except that he lacked the quality. Our players were too British

 

You can see this from his Valencia days, and start watching him at Inter now.

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No it wasn't.

 

This pining for Rafa infuriates me, because it's highly likely Torres and SG would have left anyway had he stayed.

 

Secondly, he had the lost the dressing room

 

Thirdly, He was touting himself elsewhere in January so he obviously wanted to go.

 

FOURTHLY. Hodgson has had no money to spend, I know his tactics have been a disgrace, absolutely awful and his attitude has been brought into question. But lets not pretend he's had enough time to correctly implement his own tactics. Konchesky was bought for next to nothing, he played it safe...by signing someone he knows. Shame he was awful. Raul will turn out to be a quality signing IMO.

 

And Joe Cole...He's been hindered by his manager no doubt.

 

We got the replacement wrong quite clearly, but Rafa had to go and if I could I'd do it ten times over.

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I'll ignore Ant's comments because they usually follow the Evertonian philosophy of ignoring inconvenient arguments!

 

It was best for all concerned that Rafa left! Sorry, I was as gutted as most Rafapologists but it is clear to everyone how much of a poisonous atmosphere there was at the club and there was no guarantees that we would be sold, he had spent the previous season focus on fights off the pitch! That couldn't have continued, although I am far from convinced the Torres was leaving because of Rafa, he was leaving because of the owners!

 

Appointing Roy is the problem, not losing Rafa!

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No it wasn't.

 

This pining for Rafa infuriates me, because it's highly likely Torres and SG would have left anyway had he stayed.

 

Secondly, he had the lost the dressing room

 

Thirdly, He was touting himself elsewhere in January so he obviously wanted to go.

 

FOURTHLY. Hodgson has had no money to spend, I know his tactics have been a disgrace, absolutely awful and his attitude has been brought into question. But lets not pretend he's had enough time to correctly implement his own tactics. Konchesky was bought for next to nothing, he played it safe...by signing someone he knows. Shame he was awful. Raul will turn out to be a quality signing IMO.

 

And Joe Cole...He's been hindered by his manager no doubt.

 

We got the replacement wrong quite clearly, but Rafa had to go and if I could I'd do it ten times over.

 

 

 

Sums you up perfectly.

Knee jerking nob of a kid of the highest order.

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Sums you up perfectly.

Knee jerking nob of a kid of the highest order.

 

You are obsessed with me.

 

I've never actually seen you post anything of relevance, nor contribute anything in terms of a debate.

 

You just come in, slag me off, make some generic comment then walk off.

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If someone is doing a really bad job in your office, and you replace him with someone who does an even worse job. It doesn't make the decision to sack the first employee wrong.

 

The process and the final outcome to find Rafa's replacement was wrong.

 

Perfect summation.

 

Although personally I didn't think Hodgson would stink the place out this bad.

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No it wasn't.

 

This pining for Rafa infuriates me, because it's highly likely Torres and SG would have left anyway had he stayed.

 

Secondly, he had the lost the dressing room

 

Thirdly, He was touting himself elsewhere in January so he obviously wanted to go.

 

FOURTHLY. Hodgson has had no money to spend, I know his tactics have been a disgrace, absolutely awful and his attitude has been brought into question. But lets not pretend he's had enough time to correctly implement his own tactics. Konchesky was bought for next to nothing, he played it safe...by signing someone he knows. Shame he was awful. Raul will turn out to be a quality signing IMO.

 

And Joe Cole...He's been hindered by his manager no doubt.

 

We got the replacement wrong quite clearly, but Rafa had to go and if I could I'd do it ten times over.

 

What are his "own tactics" that he hasn't had time (four months!!! and he can't set up a team to be organised, with 35 years management experience!!) to implement correctly....?

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I never wanted Rafa to go. I thought we owed it to him to give him one more season. I certainly never thought we were in any position to be appointing another manager of his calibre. I said so on here til I was blue in the face. But I got shouted down plenty by whoppers spitting feathers about how it didn't matter who we got in, we're Liverpool FC we'll find someone, anyone would be better than this cunt.

 

Well now look.

 

I would give anything to have him back. Fuck Gerrard. Fuck Carra. If they had a problem with him THEY should have been the ones to leave.

 

THIS - all day long.

 

There were many people on here suggesting that we should get rid of the owners first THEN give Benites a year to see if he could turn it around.

 

We were all assured that Benitez was the real problem.

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No it wasn't.

 

This pining for Rafa infuriates me, because it's highly likely Torres and SG would have left anyway had he stayed.

 

Secondly, he had the lost the dressing room

 

Thirdly, He was touting himself elsewhere in January so he obviously wanted to go.

 

FOURTHLY. Hodgson has had no money to spend, I know his tactics have been a disgrace, absolutely awful and his attitude has been brought into question. But lets not pretend he's had enough time to correctly implement his own tactics. Konchesky was bought for next to nothing, he played it safe...by signing someone he knows. Shame he was awful. Raul will turn out to be a quality signing IMO.

 

And Joe Cole...He's been hindered by his manager no doubt.

 

We got the replacement wrong quite clearly, but Rafa had to go and if I could I'd do it ten times over.

 

Are you still jabbering Clown?

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It's sounding more and more like rafa was stitched up by a selection of people at the club, including some players. Those people got what they wanted and the result is where we are now.

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I said in a different thread that he has already put his stamp on this team and anyone who thinks its going to get any better has their head in the sand or up their own arse. 35 years he's played this way and it took him a very short time to convert us into his style. I used to think souness was our worst manager ever but this mong makes souness look like a combination of guardiola, cryuff, bob and kenny rolled into 1. Hodgson OUT NOW!!

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yes, we all know the story, but the context is entirely different.

 

You mean Entirely different in the sense of:

 

 

There was no board-room unrest because he was over-demanding?

 

That there weren't players who were alienated because he was over-demanding or pointed out they were less important than the team?

 

That with each season he didn't take risks by overhauling the system of play?

 

That he didn't estrange himself from sections of the fan base by bowing to their whims?

 

You mean that kind of entirely different?

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I don't disagree with most of what you said, except that Rafa's style not being purely possession based etc. I believe that was Rafa's goal, except that he lacked the quality. Our players were too British

 

You can see this from his Valencia days, and start watching him at Inter now.

 

I think the essential difference is Rafa prefers to keep possession in the defense and deep midfield, while Barca/Spain systematically work it around the front areas.

 

Then again, as you said, that could be a difference of quality in players. However, I remember reading about Rafa's beliefs in the Sacchi methods and one of the essential tenets was the incisive, efficient attack (immediately following a turnover) made of intelligent movement and 2-3 passes.

 

Which perfectly describes the best Gerrard-Torres moments (v Mancs 1-4), Sacchi-influenced Milan in Istanbul (before halftime), or Loew's Germany (v England, Argentina this past WC).

 

And which is not a hallmark of Spain or Barca's tikki-takka.

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Perfect summation.

 

Although personally I didn't think Hodgson would stink the place out this bad.

 

Thats 2 people who have probably never worked a day in their their life (in an office or in a position where decisions like these are made) or are still in school?? Apologies if I am wrong!!!

 

Let me explain.....

If you have someone in your office who is really bad at his work,

 

Option 1: You fire his ass and get in someone who is BETTER OR

Option 2: If you cannot get someone better, you get the current staff to share the responsibility until some one better can be found.

 

Obviously Option 2 is not possible in a football club, where the "someone" is the Manager, so the only solution is to wait until things get really bad and you promote someone from within or you manage to get someone better from the outside. Its not rocket science you know....To continue to justify this is beyond mental Rafa should have been given this season to change things around.

 

What was done last season was purely out of spite or for personal issues at the board level between Rafa and CP. No other way to explain it. All this about losing the dressing room etc is just bullcrap

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