What happened with Torres and Carra?

[Whelan]

Nah, not really. He didn't get Rafa sacked; he isn't to blame for lack of team spirit in the whole squad and Torres won't leave because of him.

 

Do you think he should be first choice though Ted, and if not, how do you think he would react?

 

Personally I think he should not be first choice for every match, and would like to see him playing less, but I don't get the feeling he would appreciate this too much, and he is such an influence on the club, it is difficult to reign his displeasure in.

[Ted]

Do you think he should be first choice though Ted, and if not, how do you think he would react?

 

Personally I think he should not be first choice for every match, and would like to see him playing less, but I don't get the feeling he would appreciate this too much, and he is such an influence on the club, it is difficult to reign his displeasure in.

 

I do, but only because there is no one I'd trust to replace and do a good job of it.

 

It's not exactly Carragher's fault that the turnover of centre backs in his time here has been so high and of such poor quality, is it?

 

 

Hasn't he said in the past that if someone came in who took his place and did so on merit - i.e was better than him - he'd have no problem?

 

I think he'd have cause for questioning the wisdom of dropping him for someone like Skrtel or The Greek.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Nah, not really. He didn't get Rafa sacked; he isn't to blame for lack of team spirit in the whole squad and Torres won't leave because of him.

 

Only a lunatic would solely point the finger at Carra for all of the above.

 

You see it that way, others don't therefore it becomes reasonable debate. It becomes unreasonable when it starts with people just wading in with size whatevers.

 

Jamie is one of my favourite players, but sometimes he may do things on the pitch or I have heard things from very credible sources that I don't like. Doesn't mean it can't be debated.

[Guest ian garro]

I hope he has had fucking words witn Nando cos he needs to pull his finger out.

 

That's fair comment. Who's telling JC to get his finger out though - because there's no question he needs it at the mo. There arent really any excuses any more.

[Ted]

Fair enough.

[the paddock]

Jamie 'too big for his boots' Carragher

[Whelan]

I do, but only because there is no one I'd trust to replace and do a good job of it.

 

It's not exactly Carragher's fault that the turnover of centre backs in his time here has been so high and of such poor quality, is it?

 

 

Hasn't he said in the past that if someone came in who took his place and did so on merit - i.e was better than him - he'd have no problem?

 

I think he'd have cause for questioning the wisdom of dropping him for someone like Skrtel or The Greek.

 

Can't disagree with that, I would like to see Kelly play their alongside Agger, both have pace and both are good footballers.

 

I do think a centre half will force him onto the bench, won't be the worst thing in the world, sell Skrtel and the Greek and have Carragher and Kelly as backup.

 

I have my worries on whether Carragher will accept a squad role in the same way that the Salford Smack Rat did, I would love him to, but I have my doubts about that.

[Ted]

I'm at the end of my tether with Agger. We've only had one season out of him where he's remained relatively injury free and held down a place in the side.

 

I also think he's massively regressed since that season (06/07) and not been able to capture any sort of form for a consitent amount of time.

 

If I were going to go for a decent young centre half now, it'd probably be someone like Gary Cahill or Simon Kjaer. I think to not be looking at someone now would be foolish as, despite my absolute willingness to defend him - it's clear Carra is on the way down.

[WaltonRed]

JC looks less like the old JC because of the style of play and the players in front of him.

 

Drop JC and put any number of the players you'd sign at CB and they'd look the same.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Jamie 'too big for his boots' Carragher

 

Surely his feet stopped growing when he was 18?

[Antynwa]

I'm at the end of my tether with Agger. We've only had one season out of him where he's remained relatively injury free and held down a place in the side.

 

I also think he's massively regressed since that season (06/07) and not been able to capture any sort of form for a consitent amount of time.

 

If I were going to go for a decent young centre half now, it'd probably be someone like Gary Cahill or Simon Kjaer. I think to not be looking at someone now would be foolish as, despite my absolute willingness to defend him - it's clear Carra is on the way down.

 

Daniel Agger is fucking shit.

 

1. He scores a half decent goal every season

2. He's absolutely atrocious defensively

3. He's only rated highly because half of our fans are from fucking Denmark.

 

Carragher gets so much undue shit it's unreal. For years the lad has sweated blood for this club, he's a massive legend. He's the fan on the pitch, he's the only one who I can truly say has this clubs best interests at hand.

 

Don't get me wrong, the man is not invincible, he's clearly going to get worse with age. But fuck me, the man is 33, he's doing more running than the likes of Sami did in his later years, and he's trying organise a bunch of defenders with a fucking pea for a brain.

[Guest ian garro]

JC looks less like the old JC because of the style of play and the players in front of him.

 

Drop JC and put any number of the players you'd sign at CB and they'd look the same.

 

So his own standard hasnt dropped then ?

 

I think he had a 'mare last season, and he's started this one in a similar vein. He wasnt the only one of course, but he is the only one who it's frowned upon to criticise. We've had "it's Johnson", "it's Skrtel" and more recently "it's the midfield/style of play".

 

I think his form has dipped massively since big Sami left.

[Whelan]

Daniel Agger is fucking shit.

 

1. He scores a half decent goal every season

2. He's absolutely atrocious defensively

3. He's only rated highly because half of our fans are from fucking Denmark.

 

Carragher gets so much undue shit it's unreal. For years the lad has sweated blood for this club, he's a massive legend. He's the fan on the pitch, he's the only one who I can truly say has this clubs best interests at hand.

 

Don't get me wrong, the man is not invincible, he's clearly going to get worse with age. But fuck me, the man is 33, he's doing more running than the likes of Sami did in his later years, and he's trying organise a bunch of defenders with a fucking pea for a brain.

 

Do you have to maintain a certain quota of mind numbingly stupid comments that you have to make, each day?

 

I mean, by all means, carry on ignoring the irony of you dismissing Danish people for their support of a Danish player, whilst supporting a fellow scouser despite the obvious failings!

 

Agger, as with Carragher is still the best pairing that we have! And the same arguments are relevant to both, I personally think he is a bit gay and would swap him for someone like Kjaar or Metzelder, but equally I think Carragher needs to be replaced now, and I am not that confident this won't cause trouble.

[Antynwa]

Do you have to maintain a certain quota of mind numbingly stupid comments that you have to make, each day?

 

I mean, by all means, carry on ignoring the irony of you dismissing Danish people for their support of a Danish player, whilst supporting a fellow scouser despite the obvious failings!

 

Agger, as with Carragher is still the best pairing that we have! And the same arguments are relevant to both, I personally think he is a bit gay and would swap him for someone like Kjaar or Metzelder, but equally I think Carragher needs to be replaced now, and I am not that confident this won't cause trouble.

 

Carragher needs to take a back seat, but he can't. Agger and Skrtel IMO are nowhere near good enough to take his mantle.

 

Carragher isn't a tactical player, the man's qualities come from brute force, leadership and a good timing of a challenge. He isn't a very technical player. He is limited. But fuck me alongside Hyypia he's been one of the best defenders this club as ever had.

 

Fucking hero.

 

What did an Italian paper say about him once? If he was Italian we'd build dynasties around him?

[Whelan]

Carragher needs to take a back seat, but he can't. Agger and Skrtel IMO are nowhere near good enough to take his mantle.

 

Carragher isn't a tactical player, the man's qualities come from brute force, leadership and a good timing of a challenge. He isn't a very technical player. He is limited. But fuck me alongside Hyypia he's been one of the best defenders this club as ever had.

 

Fucking hero.

 

What did an Italian paper say about him once? If he was Italian we'd build dynasties around him?

 

Well nobody is suggesting that Agger supplants Carragher, but as things stand a fully fit Daniel Agger arguably contributes more than 33 year old Jamie Carragher, whose distribution is becoming tiresome!

 

And a young player like Cahil, or even Shawcross would naturally take Carraghers place rather than Aggers.

 

But still, you are confusing the player and whether or not it is right for that player to have such influence, and subsequently whether that influence is healthy?

 

Put it this way, Hodgson's treatment of Torres has been a disgrace, but not one word has been said about Johnson, Cole, Carragher or Gerrard who have been equally culpable this season.

[Antynwa]

Well nobody is suggesting that Agger supplants Carragher, but as things stand a fully fit Daniel Agger arguably contributes more than 33 year old Jamie Carragher, whose distribution is becoming tiresome!

 

And a young player like Cahil, or even Shawcross would naturally take Carraghers place rather than Aggers.

 

But still, you are confusing the player and whether or not it is right for that player to have such influence, and subsequently whether that influence is healthy?

 

Put it this way, Hodgson's treatment of Torres has been a disgrace, but not one word has been said about Johnson, Cole, Carragher or Gerrard who have been equally culpable this season.

 

I don't see what bad influence Carragher is having. He's a leader, he's a quality player. He's the bedrock of our defence. If you're referring to any potential impact he had upon the sacking of Benitez. I think it's very noble of him to actually stand up and make a point. He has the best interests of this club at heart, of that I have no doubt. He could walk out of here tomorrow, sit on the bench in sunny Milan (Infact fuck that) Or Madrid, play second fiddle and see out his later years in sunshine. But no he's at Liverpool, he's fighting for the club and doing his damn best to get us out of the shit.

 

FWIW I don't know if Carragher had an influence, or if he even expressed his dismay with Rafa.

 

I guarantee you if he wasn't there, our defence would collapse. Johnson has no positional sense. Agger just isn't a very good player and Skrtel blows hot and cold. Even Rafa said that you need a player like Carra to bust a few heads. Torres doesn't need his head busting, it needs it booted up and down the pitch because his attitude stinks.

 

Not to mention the likes of Kelly need a mentor, and Aurelio is constantly injured, and Konchesky is shit.

[Whelan]

.

Torres doesn't need his head busting, it needs it booted up and down the pitch because his attitude stinks.

 

I think we will have to disagree about his influence, I don't necessarily disagree with you, I just don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility that his influence can be negative.

 

But just to pull you up on this statement, his attitude is no different in anyway to Gerrards last season!

 

But unlike Gerrard, and in particular 2004, when his attitude stunk! Torres is being undermined on a weekly basis by increasingly divisive comments from the current manager! I can show you a shitty comment made this Sunday! He is clearly unhappy at Hodgson and, Hodgsons behaviour is clearly unhealthy for the club.

 

If Carragher was a leader, and did have the best interest of the club at heart he would be a. Back Torres publicly and b. Privately have a word with Roy!

[Funkasy]

why the hell do you keep calling Carragher our leader at the back when we are leaking 2-3 goals in each match ? if that's a defensive leader i really want a new one.

[TheHowieLama]

But fuck me alongside Hyypia he's been one of the best defenders this club as ever had.

 

 

So was Henchoz, tbh all this says more about Hyppia than it does about Carragher.

[zackop10]

i completely disagree with those posters who say carra could warm the bench of madrid and milan, because i do not think they will take him he is not good enough, bolton and stoke, blackburn or blackpool then yes thats guaranteed....

[Randy Marsh]

Daniel Agger is fucking shit.

 

1. He scores a half decent goal every season

2. He's absolutely atrocious defensively

3. He's only rated highly because half of our fans are from fucking Denmark.

 

 

That really is a monumentally shit post. The bit in bold makes you sound like a blueshite wum.

 

Agger is a footballer being asked to play Hodgson Hoof Ball. He won't, and that's why he's been bombed out.

 

Put Agger in a footballing side and he is a superb asset. The problem is, we havn't been a footballing side for 14months. He isn't "atrocious defensively" at all. When he gets fed up of being left on the bench because he refuses to twat the ball Peter Kay style at every opportunity, let's just wait and see the queue of top clubs which will form to take him on board.

[redrosetints]

True that. I'm surprised he didn't get stick for refusing to play there under Rafa. I know he's a legend and all that, but no one is bigger than e club.

 

Anyone know about this Jim Boardman tweet that said Carra wouldnt sign a new deal with us as long "that c***" was managing us. (last year)[/quote

It wouldn't surprise me if Carra didn't get on with Torres, the ITK local lads have started to round on Torres as they did on Rafa before. TomRs thread of a month ago proves that. What i've never understood is why his briefing against the last manager were not frowned on just as the previous afield mole, Ince was rightly, shown the door. It's not like Carras performances have been any good in the last 18 months

[dennis tooth]

Torres doesn't need his head busting, it needs it booted up and down the pitch because his attitude stinks.

 

Your stupid. How can you say Torres attitude stinks with a straight face?

 

He needs the ball to be able to do much about our situation and he ran his bollocks off at the weekend. Do you think he should beat 10 men all on his own and smash it in he top corner every time he gets the ball?

[ritchie]

Anyone know about this Jim Boardman tweet that said Carra wouldnt sign a new deal with us as long "that c***" was managing us. (last year)[/quote

It wouldn't surprise me if Carra didn't get on with Torres, the ITK local lads have started to round on Torres as they did on Rafa before. TomRs thread of a month ago proves that. What i've never understood is why his briefing against the last manager were not frowned on just as the previous afield mole, Ince was rightly, shown the door. It's not like Carras performances have been any good in the last 18 months

 

Exactly. No-one can answer that. The fact is they accept it because they wanted Rafa out, but look at where we are now with Hodgson in charge.

 

We're stuck with Carragher now till 2013 because no-one else will pay him the wages we are. So if the next manager leaves him out, then we're wasting big wages.

[ngogswilly]

 

Exactly. No-one can answer that. The fact is they accept it because they wanted Rafa out, but look at where we are now with Hodgson in charge.

 

We're stuck with Carragher now till 2013 because no-one else will pay him the wages we are. So if the next manager leaves him out, then we're wasting big wages.

 

Not at all. Plenty of people wanted Rafa out but disagreed entirely with how it was handled through the media and the underhanded shit. Me being one of them.