Carra crap

[GJM]

So, we want the players to be vocal, but only if we agree with them? Right??

 

And any opinion on what he says off the pitch, and how performs on it are, in my mind, completely separate.

 

If only the problem with the way we are playing just now were as simple as Carragher being replaced. If fucking only.

[Soleilrouge]

Soleilrouge having another one of his regular pops at Carragher!!!

 

What a bad bellend you are and this fucking vendetta you have against him is fucking disgraceful. Fuck off you bad cunt.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reasoned response.

 

Just so you can understand it, I will spell out what I have said:

 

The guy talks too much in the media about matters which are not his responsibility

 

It is well known amongst the media that he briefed aginst rafa having lost the dressing room

 

There are recent examples of him putting himself before the team

 

His form over the last few seasons has been generally quite poor

 

In my opinion, this idea that a player is the heart and soul of a team because he throws himself about when required is seriously flawed. The game demands a little more than that.

 

We have a general problem with player power versus players taking responsibility

 

Many are blinded by this because Carra is a local lad who had two/three good seasons under rafa at centre back and because, imo, he has carefully cultivated his image in the media

 

Why so many here feel Carra can do no wrong and that to criticise him is an offence meriting horrific personal abuse is, unfortunately, not difficult to understand.

 

You may not agree with me but my opinion is honestly held and should not be discounted as a vendetta - I was at his testimonial dinner and did not even get one shot off.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Bad bellend.

[Funkasy]

Ive loved Carra over the years but i think his time has come, but often he has proved me wrong, but people are defending him saying that our back four will not work if he's not there, he's been in the team all last year and all this year so far and we are leaking goals like never before.

[goatboy59]

Wanting more is greedy, so I'd say the statement is accurate.

 

 

That's absolute crap.

 

Presumably you've also found a quote where Carragher called Rafa greedy while he himself was trying to negotiate a five year deal that doubled his own wages?

 

Because I found one the other way round.

 

And a quote where Rafa claimed he always defended his players.

 

Yet amazingly it's the player who is the backstabber!

[ritchie]

Thanks for the reasoned response.

 

Just so you can understand it, I will spell out what I have said:

 

The guy talks too much in the media about matters which are not his responsibility

 

It is well known amongst the media that he briefed aginst rafa having lost the dressing room

 

There are recent examples of him putting himself before the team

 

His form over the last few seasons has been generally quite poor

 

In my opinion, this idea that a player is the heart and soul of a team because he throws himself about when required is seriously flawed. The game demands a little more than that.

 

We have a general problem with player power versus players taking responsibility

 

Many are blinded by this because Carra is a local lad who had two/three good seasons under rafa at centre back and because, imo, he has carefully cultivated his image in the media

 

Why so many here feel Carra can do no wrong and that to criticise him is an offence meriting horrific personal abuse is, unfortunately, not difficult to understand.

 

You may not agree with me but my opinion is honestly held and should not be discounted as a vendetta - I was at his testimonial dinner and did not even get one shot off.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Bad bellend.

 

Hard to argue with any of that.

[goatboy59]

Especially the final line.

[The Dude Abides]

Had to laugh at that Winter nonsense yesterday. The scary thing is though, there would be no shortage of Liverpool fans that would welcome that decision.

[Cherry Ghost]

Dear oh dear oh dear oh dear, what is going on with this shite

[Moschops II]

I cant believe some people would rather Rafa had stayed and JC and Stevie leave.

 

Too funny.

 

And of course they've both responded to Benitez leaving with such inspired performances.

 

Maybe it would have been best for all three of them to have gone.

[JMARKH]

Fuck off back to Rawk, it's clear you belong to the Benitez cult who are all up in arms about one of our greatest servants, wanker.

[ritchie]

Fuck off back to Rawk, it's clear you belong to the Benitez cult who are all up in arms about one of our greatest servants, wanker.

 

Why do people try and play up all these forum splits, and typecast everything?

 

The way people go on, you'd assume:

 

The Liverpool Way - the anti-Rafa/anti-SOS forum.

 

RAWK - The pro-Rafa/anti TLW forum (because of the TLW anti-Rafa stance).

 

RAOTL - the pro-SOS/anti TLW forum (because of the TLW anti-SOS stance).

 

There's lads on here that don't help themselves in building up this siege mentality that gives this forum a bad name.

 

It's amazing to think we all support the same club.

[llego]

Why do people try and play up all these forum splits, and typecast everything?

 

The way people go on, you'd assume:

 

The Liverpool Way - the anti-Rafa/anti-SOS forum.

 

RAWK - The pro-Rafa/anti TLW forum (because of the TLW anti-Rafa stance).

 

RAOTL - the pro-SOS/anti TLW forum (because of the TLW anti-SOS stance).

 

There's lads on here that don't help themselves in building up this siege mentality that gives this forum a bad name.

 

It's amazing to think we all support the same club.

 

Tribalism.

 

If we're being completely honest, it's the reason behind all of this supporting one club over another stuff as well.

[Paul]

Can I add one point to the anti-Carra rebuttals? Playing in a shite defence does not make you a shite player or even a great player in decline. Jamie Carragher, with players of a comparable quality around him at the back (and there are none at the club right now), will be a mainstay of the first team for a long while yet.

 

It defies belief to suggest that age is making him worse when his game has always been based on intelligence, organisation and leadership rather than qualities like pace or aerial ability that can desert a player as his legs get more weary with age. I mean, he's 32 for fuck's sake - hardly a pensioner, is he?

[Il Fenomeno]

That's absolute crap.

 

Presumably you've also found a quote where Carragher called Rafa greedy while he himself was trying to negotiate a five year deal that doubled his own wages?

 

Because I found one the other way round.

 

And a quote where Rafa claimed he always defended his players.

 

Yet amazingly it's the player who is the backstabber!

 

So are you saying when Carragher asked for more, he was acting in the best interests of the club?

 

It seemed like a tongue in cheek comment from Benitez, not that it will stop you twisting it until it fits your agenda of Benitez being an evil man who bullied poor little James Carragher, who didn't have anything to do with the removal of Benitez.

 

It was just a coincidence that someone called 'Senior sources' knowing the ins and outs of the dressing room started briefing the press once Benitez tried to buy Shawcross/Turner.

 

It was just by chance that Murphy came out with things such as "I will always be a fan. I keep in touch with a lot of people close to the club and many think the time has come for a new manager. I agree providing that process doesn't cripple the club financially in terms of pay-offs". He said these things without having a nudge by a certain someone in the Liverpool dressing room, did he? He knew what the terms of Benitez' contract were?

 

Another thing Danny said in the article, "It goes without saying the team have ended up relying too much on Torres, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher". Really? Out of all our players he mentions Carragher, wonder why?

 

Carragher, who has previously argued with Collymore & Durham decides it would be a fantastic idea to join their broadcast team for the world cup Radio Today.. with RCS: Carragher signs to talkSPORT, after that talkSport had a source inside the Liverpool dressing room and kept talking about how Benitez had lost the dressing room and that Gerrard would leave if Benitez wouldn't.

 

Not much people at our club have acted with class or dignity in the last 18 months, that includes Hicks, Gillett, Torres, Benitez, Carragher, Gerrard, Riera, Purslow or anyone else (Reina & Dalglish apart, maybe).

 

Whatever Benitez said or did, or however bad his results were or weren't, it doesn't mean Carragher should be immune from critcism.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, so people are well within their rights to critcise Carragher.

[The Dude Abides]

Can I add one point to the anti-Carra rebuttals? Playing in a shite defence does not make you a shite player or even a great player in decline. Jamie Carragher, with players of a comparable quality around him at the back (and there are none at the club right now), will be a mainstay of the first team for a long while yet.

 

It defies belief to suggest that age is making him worse when his game has always been based on intelligence, organisation and leadership rather than qualities like pace or aerial ability that can desert a player as his legs get more weary with age. I mean, he's 32 for fuck's sake - hardly a pensioner, is he?

 

Cheers. Gave me a right good laugh that did. He's done.

[Paul]

In my view, as a player and a fan, Carra has got more right to an opinion on most things to do with the club than most other people: not only does he love the club, but he makes his living from it too. Furthermore, he's almost certainly more likely to be better informed than most other people, as well.

 

In short (in case it wasn't clear enough), I think he's a fucking great player who talks sense and will be forever remembered as a Liverpool legend. Broadly speaking, I'm open to most opinions about our club, but I can't help but be deeply suspicious of anyone that slags Carra.

[Paul]

Cheers. Gave me a right good laugh that did. He's done.

 

In my view, as a player and a fan, Carra has got more right to an opinion on most things to do with the club than most other people: not only does he love the club, but he makes his living from it too. Furthermore, he's almost certainly more likely to be better informed than most other people, as well.

 

In short (in case it wasn't clear enough), I think he's a fucking great player who talks sense and will be forever remembered as a Liverpool legend. Broadly speaking, I'm open to most opinions about our club, but I can't help but be deeply suspicious of anyone that slags Carra.

 

Uncanny (right down to the snide tone and all).

[redfromtubebar]

Without reading all of the thread, and on the original point, I feel a little uncomfortable with the amount of power Carragher and Gerrard seem to have at the club.

 

Particuarly, and I'm sure I will be slaughtered for it because he's been a magnificent player for us, but Carra's best days are already behind him and he shouldn't be receiving a 3 year deal at this stage considering his form over the past 18 months. Ideally, for me, he'd be the third choice centre back to Agger + 1 new signing but I guess that's besides the point.

[ngogswilly]

Its all spiralled totally out of fucking control with this one.

 

As for the all the stuff about him briefing the press etc.. etc..

Its all total conjecture and pie in the sky assumption shit at the minute.

Nobody can prove anything so to criticize him for things like that is seriously unfair.

 

As for the playing stuff hes a club legend and still capable of leading our defence. But in my opinion some people need to accept he will need to be replaced within 2-4 years. I'm sure theres people on here who reckon he'll be able to play till hes 40 but that is beyond unlikely. And whilst at times hes been surronded by shite this season and last, he has also on more than one occasion been seriously shit himself.

But I dont see the point in having at go at one person when Johnson has been dung, Skrtel has been dung, every left back we've played has been dung etc... etc...

 

The whole defence needs fixing not just carra.

[Mr T]

Can I add one point to the anti-Carra rebuttals? Playing in a shite defence does not make you a shite player or even a great player in decline. Jamie Carragher, with players of a comparable quality around him at the back (and there are none at the club right now), will be a mainstay of the first team for a long while yet.

 

It defies belief to suggest that age is making him worse when his game has always been based on intelligence, organisation and leadership rather than qualities like pace or aerial ability that can desert a player as his legs get more weary with age. I mean, he's 32 for fuck's sake - hardly a pensioner, is he?

 

Not last ditch challenges then? Jumping for the ball and chasing after it are pretty fundamental qualities for a centre back. Even if these aren't his primary qualities a marginal reduction in his physical level will still be exposed in this league.

 

That's why Carragher has been embarrassed time and again over the last 2 years. Looks like you've got a blind spot when it comes to him.

[Paul]

Not last ditch challenges then? Jumping for the ball and chasing after it are pretty fundamental qualities for a centre back. Even if these aren't his primary qualities a marginal reduction in his physical level will still be exposed in this league.

 

That's why Carragher has been embarrassed time and again over the last 2 years. Looks like you've got a blind spot when it comes to him.

 

Or else you think the likes of Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Johnson, Agger, Insua and Aurelio are at his level? Or that the lack of a great partnership in front of him should have no effect on how he plays? Maybe the blindspot is in people who think defending is an individual effort, rather than a fundamentally collective one.

 

I remember the fact that he was playing next to the liability that was Igor Biscan being overlooked too when so many fans took delight in telling us how he'd been humiliated by Henry. And I remember the stick he used to get at Anfield when he first fully established himself in the side as a full back. I thought he was a quality player then and I think he's a quality player now and I know he's proved it time after time after time again.

[on the ed son]

well said...

[WrongIslander]

I really hate to do this but reality must prevail

 

Turner

Shawcross

Cahill

Terry (even though he is massively overrated and a complete tool)

Alex

Vidic

Ferdinand

Vermaelen

Jagielka

Upson

King (when he can stay fit)

Kompany

Toure

Hangeland

Bramble (yes freaking Bramble)

Dunne

Evans

Mensah

 

 

All these defenders are now better than Carragher.

 

Before people respond as I can imagine what it will be like but Bramble has been brilliant since he linked up with Bruce and got a bit of confidence back in his play.

[Spy Bee]

MF > FF

[Mr T]

Or else you think the likes of Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Johnson, Agger, Insua and Aurelio are at his level? Or that the lack of a great partnership in front of him should have no effect on how he plays? Maybe the blindspot is in people who think defending is an individual effort, rather than a fundamentally collective one.

 

I remember the fact that he was playing next to the liability that was Igor Biscan being overlooked too when so many fans took delight in telling us how he'd been humiliated by Henry. And I remember the stick he used to get at Anfield when he first fully established himself in the side as a full back. I thought he was a quality player then and I think he's a quality player now and I know he's proved it time after time after time again.

 

You're shifting the goal posts now I'm afraid. You claimed that Carragher's game is only weakly linked to his physical condition which is clearly nonsense.

 

It sounds like Carragher is a long time favourite of yours.. fair enough I'm sure he is too many. Just don't let that cloud your judgement of his performances. If he's not performing consistently then his position in the team warrants debate just like every other player. To place him on a pedestal could be extremely damaging to the team in the long run even if it is done with the best of intentions.