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What I've witnessed with alcoholics is you can't help them until they reach that point they want too help themselves, you've just got to be there when they do. It seems cliched now but the declaration someone makes when they admit they're an alcoholic is groundbreaking, I'm watching someone I know now in complete denial and there's no reasoning with her she can't be fixed until she wants to fix herself and then we will be there. Watching someone self destruct is difficult to say the least. 

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5 hours ago, lifetime fan said:

 

 

You're happy to just write someone off as a lost cause? 

 

Do you realise how many efforts it can take an alcoholic to finally stop drinking? 

 

Notwithstanding the attitude of just giving up on a fellow human being. 

He's a rich and famous man, you don't think loads of people have tried to help?

 

Clearly, he needs to help himself first and foremost but if he can't do that, then yeah he's a lost cause. 

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3 hours ago, Colt Seavers said:

Have you seen the Bobby Robson documentary on Netflix?

Apparently Robson used to pay random people to check on him and he got wise in the end and used to ask if Robson had sent them.

This happened even after Robson left England seemed to be a real bond between the two of them

Wow. That real?  

 

Gazza a was a real player. Great skill. Kinda in the Frank Worthington mould. Not sure who else to liken him to. 

 

If if you are too young and you don’t know who Frank Worthington was, then google him. You’ll be surprised just how much of an LFC type player he was and how close he was to paying for us. 

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19 minutes ago, Jennings said:

Wow. That real?  

 

Gazza a was a real player. Great skill. Kinda in the Frank Worthington mould. Not sure who else to liken him to. 

 

If if you are too young and you don’t know who Frank Worthington was, then google him. You’ll be surprised just how much of an LFC type player he was and how close he was to paying for us. 

I love this.

 

6561EF10-8ADA-4F71-A15D-320EC1102DFB.jpeg

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When he was at Everton he used to come in our local for about 2/3 weeks until word got around and loads of people were turning up with shirts to sign and wanting autograph/photos (of which he'd always oblige). He was sound, just acting like one of the lads but fucking hell, he was drinking like nothing I've seen before, half pints of vodka with every pint, pint after pint of lager, smoking like a chimney. 

 

As someone who lost a mother to alcohol addiction, I know that there is no use for help unless the person wants to help themselves, you often get false dawns when you think they're getting better but sometimes it's the smallest of trigger that sets them back off and all the support and perseverance of sometimes months gets ripped up and you're back at square one with them, maybe even square less than one as each time it seems to descend deeper than previous.

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20 hours ago, Tony Moanero said:

Football was completely different when Paul Gascoigne was playing or at least it was in this country. Many players weren’t the athletes that their modern counterparts are and there was a drink culture attached to the game. In my opinion, with all due respect, you would benefit from reading up on alcoholism and addiction, as it is not as simple as you seem to think. 

 

I’m not sure how people who have never met or spent time in his company, can say whether or not he is a wrong’un.

 

With regard to him throwing help back in people’s faces, if you have not already done so, have a read of the Jimmy Greaves article that I posted above. In my opinion, Greaves is absolutely spot on.

With all due respect mate, I don’t need to read up on it. My sister is a alcoholic and has had her kids taken off her and removed from our family, which nearly put my parents in their graves so believe me when I tell you Ive seen it all. Our family has been ripped apart by her selfish actions, too many to go into here. Alcoholics don’t give a shit, not even about their own kids. I believe any man who hits a woman is a wrongun for my own reasons also. I’m betting Gazza has had a lot more help than my sister ever has and greater opportunities to turn his life around. That’s not saying I don’t wish him well and hope he can turn his life around, but the making excuses for them never ever helps anyone, especially the alcoholic. My mother did it with my sister for years and all she was doing was being her enabler. Now my sister blames everyone but herself for her kids being taken off her when she was the one who put the drink before them. I hope gazza does get better but I’ve more sympathy for his kids tbh.

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How would you rate him as a player though Gazza?

 

I was working on the impression that he was massively overrated due to a couple of decent games at Italia 90. 

He played for a few middling clubs and never won anything of note.

 

But then I thought maybe no-one rated him that highly anyway.

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1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

How would you rate him as a player though Gazza?

 

I was working on the impression that he was massively overrated due to a couple of decent games at Italia 90. 

He played for a few middling clubs and never won anything of note.

 

But then I thought maybe no-one rated him that highly anyway.

In terms of natural talent he was one of the best. The way he could surge past opponents on either foot made him virtually unplayable.

 

He could have been as good as he wanted to be, notwithstanding injuries and bad luck.

 

Gazza in his youth was a force of nature.

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23 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

You are absolutely correct there To,but was his childhood that bad? I don't remember hearing too much about it.

I’ve absolutely no idea, mate. My brother and I had pretty much an identical childhood, with brilliant, loving parents, who always treated us equally.  My brother has never really been interested in drinking and rarely partakes, whereas I’m an alcoholic, albeit one who hasn’t had a drink since spring 2014.

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2 hours ago, Angie81 said:

With all due respect mate, I don’t need to read up on it. My sister is a alcoholic and has had her kids taken off her and removed from our family, which nearly put my parents in their graves so believe me when I tell you Ive seen it all. Our family has been ripped apart by her selfish actions, too many to go into here. Alcoholics don’t give a shit, not even about their own kids. I believe any man who hits a woman is a wrongun for my own reasons also. I’m betting Gazza has had a lot more help than my sister ever has and greater opportunities to turn his life around. That’s not saying I don’t wish him well and hope he can turn his life around, but the making excuses for them never ever helps anyone, especially the alcoholic. My mother did it with my sister for years and all she was doing was being her enabler. Now my sister blames everyone but herself for her kids being taken off her when she was the one who put the drink before them. I hope gazza does get better but I’ve more sympathy for his kids tbh.

 

You don’t give up on an I’ll person. 

 

You take steps to protect others but I just can’t understand giving up on a person who is ill. 

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8 hours ago, lifetime fan said:

 

You don’t give up on an I’ll person. 

 

You take steps to protect others but I just can’t understand giving up on a person who is ill. 

I suppose its a bit different where kids are involved. I would say though,that if there was any chance of a close family member losing their kids then I'd try everything to keep the kids in the family, including taking them in myself. Fortunately I've never had to experience this problem and hope I never will.

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4 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I suppose its a bit different where kids are involved. I would say though,that if there was any chance of a close family member losing their kids then I'd try everything to keep the kids in the family, including taking them in myself. Fortunately I've never had to experience this problem and hope I never will.

 

Yeah, you put the kids first. Take them away from the parent if necessary. 

 

You just don't write off an ill person in my opinion. 

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29 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:

 

Yeah, you put the kids first. Take them away from the parent if necessary. 

 

You just don't write off an ill person in my opinion. 

Yeah,your professional experience trumps any of mine. Kids would be my priority but with adults it must be difficult until they realise the full extent of their problem and really want to change it.

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I'm sorry but there comes a time when you absolutely have to write off an ill person i.e raging alcoholic. When they will not respond to countless efforts of help, will not help themselves in any way at all and cause danger to everyone around them. 

 

I've mentioned before on the GF only forced help has a chance

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1 minute ago, A Red said:

I'm sorry but there comes a time when you absolutely have to write off an ill person i.e raging alcoholic. When they will not respond to countless efforts of help, will not help themselves in any way at all and cause danger to everyone around them. 

 

I've mentioned before on the GF only forced help has a chance

Wouldn't forced help just make them more resistant?

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18 minutes ago, A Red said:

I'm sorry but there comes a time when you absolutely have to write off an ill person i.e raging alcoholic. When they will not respond to countless efforts of help, will not help themselves in any way at all and cause danger to everyone around them. 

 

I've mentioned before on the GF only forced help has a chance

 

I know your experience mate but disagree. 

 

You never know the time it WILL work. 

 

That doesn’t mean you don't take children away or leave the relationship if necessary. But as a society we should never give up on anyone. 

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Gazza should have signed for Liverpool instead of Spurs. We were interested in him for a while. He would have been fairly disciplined for a while under Kenny Dalglish but probably would have turned into Oliver Reed hanging round with Neil Ruddock later on. At least he'd be licking tramps armpits on Soccer AM for bantz rather than being on the verge of death.

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