For those of you Roy haters...

[stringvest]

The key difference is the advent of the internet which allows the masses of ill-informed to spout shite on a whim, and a 24/7 news culture which created a vacuum that has to be filled, usually with idle or malicious speculation or badly constructed hypotheses. The majority of football chatter was conducted by people who played or attended football matches, and had a broader and deeper understanding of the game at the mud and boots level.

[birkenhead]

Face it, he not good enough for Liverpool.

 

Hes a PATSY, brought in the so the board have a easier time while they feather their net.

[usernameunknown]

Great article by Barrett. Some of the stuff thats come out of Hodgson's mouth has been absolutely shameful. The comments on Shelvey and "didnt have high expectations anyway" about Birmingham were vile.

 

Not seeing any positive signs at all that you'd expect under a new manager, just more faults, new faults and embarassing interviews. He's completely out of his depth here.

[Il Fenomeno]

The key difference is the advent of the internet which allows the masses of ill-informed to spout shite on a whim

 

Haha..

[TommyW]

The key difference is the advent of the internet which allows the masses of ill-informed to spout shite on a whim, and a 24/7 news culture which created a vacuum that has to be filled, usually with idle or malicious speculation or badly constructed hypotheses. The majority of football chatter was conducted by people who played or attended football matches, and had a broader and deeper understanding of the game at the mud and boots level.

 

so would I be ill informed or maliciously speculating if I were to suggest Roy hasnt exactly done a great job so far?

 

the results speak for themselves, as long as people arent getting personal (and I dont think they have been) criticism is fair

[VladimirIlyich]

That was 20 years ago!

 

The gap was far smaller than it was now, put it this way, Leeds were taken to the cleaners by Rangers in 92'!

 

Scotland had qualified for 5 world cups on the trot!

 

 

Scottish football was still shite back then.

They qualified for world cups mainly through their English based superstars,Souness himself was one of the reasons as a player.

 

Souness was a disaster as a manager despite being bankrolled to the hilt and was welcomed with open arms yet Roys hardly got a bean and is running the gauntlet already.

 

Thank God the internet wasnt around very much in the early 90's!

[TommyW]

Scottish football was still shite back then.

They qualified for world cups mainly through their English based superstars,Souness himself was one of the reasons as a player.

 

Souness was a disaster as a manager despite being bankrolled to the hilt and was welcomed with open arms yet Roys hardly got a bean and is running the gauntlet already.

 

Thank God the internet wasnt around very much in the early 90's!

 

ever think that fact that Souness was one of the greatest players ever to wear the shirt might have lead to people welcoming him?

[Lee909]

Unfortunately we aren't Rolls Royce at the moment, more like a classic vintage vehicle. If those sucking leeches have gone and money comes in we might attract the big names, Roy must know that if that happens any excuses will evaporate quickly, if he's turned things round by the time that (hopefully) happens he has a chance. If it doesn't happen then we'll be interviewing tramps (or Mr Dalglish)

 

Would you trust him to buy the new players needed?

He seemed to have 10ml or so to buy a striker, he bid for Carlton Cole and according to the press inquired about Zamora and Doyle.

Also payed well over the odds for Konchesky and Brad Jones and made a bid for Luke Young.

[Whelan]

Scottish football was still shite back then.

They qualified for world cups mainly through their English based superstars,Souness himself was one of the reasons as a player.

 

Souness was a disaster as a manager despite being bankrolled to the hilt and was welcomed with open arms yet Roys hardly got a bean and is running the gauntlet already.

 

Thank God the internet wasnt around very much in the early 90's!

 

First off, Kenny took a shit load of stick and was to a certain degree, subject a load of unfair criticism! The rose tinted view of Liverpool fans by Liverpool fans is clouded by sentimental bollocks. They turned on Kenny on numerous occassions.

 

Souness was a shite manager, but the S** issue clouds the reasoning, a lot wanted him gone regardless of what he won (FA cup win in his first full season), but by 93 most wanted gone, sadly Davey Moores felt different!

 

Rangers had Butcher, Woods, Steven, Hately and Stevens all England Internationals playing for them, so the argument about Scotlands English based superstarts, doesn't really hold much water, as I say they took Leeds United apart in 92, and were very close (goal difference) to reaching the European Cup final in 93.

 

However the most important factor is that Souness was not 63! His career at that stage did not show 30 years of success in poor leagues, and no success in good leagues. Roy is 63, Souness was 40! So the comparison is really a bit silly.

[VladimirIlyich]

However the most important factor is that Souness was not 63! His career at that stage did not show 30 years of success in poor leagues, and no success in good leagues. Roy is 63, Souness was 40! So the comparison is really a bit silly.

 

Not sure how comparing 2 Liverpool managers can be silly.

Just lately this whole forum seems to be about comparing the current manager to the previous one and the previous one to the one before that.

 

As for the Souness being welcomed because he was a great player thats fair enough but being a great player doesnt guarantee being a great manager,as we have seen over the past decade or so.

 

I just believe that currently some supporters see us as far better than we are,unfortunately i dont and fully understand the difficult job our manager has and Im prepared to give him time.

[Il Fenomeno]

I just believe that currently some supporters see us as far better than we are,unfortunately i dont and fully understand the difficult job our manager has and Im prepared to give him time.

 

We 'sacked' the manager last season because we had a champions league squad which should finish in the top 4 easily, we've had an even worse start to this season, why are we moving a goalposts now?

 

Last season it was 'The manager isn't getting enough out of the players' now it's 'We aren't that good and we shouldn't expect that much'.

 

Even if you say wedon't have a very good squad, we should still be beating Northampton at home.

[TommyW]

As for the Souness being welcomed because he was a great player thats fair enough but being a great player doesnt guarantee being a great manager,as we have seen over the past decade or so.

 

clearly, but he was one of our great players, hence the welcome. The fact he turned out to be useless is by the by, we didnt have crystal balls then

 

Had Roy been an ex Liverpool legend he'd have got a warmer welcome (might not like it but its a fact of life) it doesnt mean he wont prove to be a better manager than Souness though

[Whelan]

Not sure how comparing 2 Liverpool managers can be silly.

Just lately this whole forum seems to be about comparing the current manager to the previous one and the previous one to the one before that.

 

I just believe that currently some supporters see us as far better than we are,unfortunately i dont and fully understand the difficult job our manager has and Im prepared to give him time.

 

You compared the welcome and attitude towards Souness arrival to Hodgsons, they are completely different situations which is why it is silly!

 

You cannot use a 40 year old, former player, who had turned Rangers into one of the best teams in Europea (they were!) to a 63 year old who has never showed anything approaching the necessary level to turn us into Champions.

 

I have said it before, this is the first time in my lifetime that we have appointed a manager from another premiership team, and therefore appointed a manager who we have an idea of what he will bring to the table.

 

Would we welcome Allardyce with the same attitude? Or would we look at what he has previously done and say, fuck that!

[VladimirIlyich]

Rangers under Souness only got near a final because it was group stages all the way to semis,i think. But that is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

We were probably a top 5 or 6 team last season at best and that still applies to this season IMO.

 

I was disappointed with Benitez off field antics last season as much as on it and know that he was looking for a way out if things went pear shaped,as they did, so i knew we werent going to be able to either keep him or afford a big name replacement therefore i believe the current manager was the calibre of replacement we were always going to get.

[stringvest]

so would I be ill informed or maliciously speculating if I were to suggest Roy hasnt exactly done a great job so far?

 

the results speak for themselves, as long as people arent getting personal (and I dont think they have been) criticism is fair

 

Roy hasn't done a great job so far, I think you'd find a consensus there. Where those who have a bit of knowledge about the game differ from the screeching things on here and other such sites is that they understand that it takes time to bed new players in, to impart the management philosophy across the whole squad, to assess the capability of each player in the squad in match conditions, and to establish which players can play where in the preferred system(s).

 

But Tommy, if you don't think people have been getting personal, you're reading a completely different forum. Some of the disgraceful and frankly worrying comments on here are as personal as it is possible to get.

[stringvest]

We 'sacked' the manager last season because we had a champions league squad which should finish in the top 4 easily, we've had an even worse start to this season, why are we moving a goalposts now?

 

Last season it was 'The manager isn't getting enough out of the players' now it's 'We aren't that good and we shouldn't expect that much'.

 

Even if you say wedon't have a very good squad, we should still be beating Northampton at home.

 

We're not moving the goalposts, We're saying have a little patience. Until Hodgson, I've never known any match-going supporter calling for a Liverpool managers head after half a dozen league games. Most knowledgeable fans indeed.

[Whelan]

Rangers under Souness only got near a final because it was group stages all the way to semis,i think. But that is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

We were probably a top 5 or 6 team last season at best and that still applies to this season IMO.

 

I was disappointed with Benitez off field antics last season as much as on it and know that he was looking for a way out if things went pear shaped,

as they did, so i knew we werent going to be able to either keep him or afford a big name replacement therefore i believe the current manager was the calibre of replacement we were always going to get.

 

Sorry but that bit in bold is revisionist, and wrong! The criticism aimed at Rafa was because he failed to get the team into the champions league places, which was the minimum requirement for him.

 

Suggesting he was sacked because of his 'off the field' behaviour is misleading and quite frankly, a lie! You are changing tact, to suit your current argument about Roy. And that is before I have even started on our board.

 

Roy should be under the same scrutiny and have the same expectations as all the previous managers, Evans, Houllier and Rafa were expected to be successful.

 

Never mind focussing on criticising Roy after five games, equally wrong is those who are looking at the expectations after 5 games!

[TommyW]

But Tommy, if you don't think people have been getting personal, you're reading a completely different forum. Some of the disgraceful and frankly worrying comments on here are as personal as it is possible to get.

 

fair enough, I havent seen anything on here to rival the abuse 'he who shall not be named' got last year, I havent seen anyone call him a c*nt, or anyone suggest Roy is deliberately putting teams out to lose so he'll get a pay off, for the most part its been appraisals of his performance so far and his career to date... which is fair game for me

 

and I havent actually seen anyone say he should be sacked though I do confess I dont read every thread

[Dicko]

fair enough, I havent seen anything on here to rival the abuse 'he who shall not be named' got last year, I havent seen anyone call him a c*nt, or anyone suggest Roy is deliberately putting teams out to lose so he'll get a pay off, for the most part its been appraisals of his performance so far and his career to date... which is fair game for me

 

and I havent actually seen anyone say he should be sacked though I do confess I dont read every thread

 

Hodgson is a c*nt who is deliberately putting out teams to lose so he'll get a payoff.

 

And he obviously should be sacked.

 

Seriously though although I don't want him here, we can at least treat him with a modicum of respect, the fact that people couldn't afford that to the previous manager by the end doesn't mean others should feel justified in behaving the same way to his successor.

 

This is not having a go at you btw.

[AL66GOLF]

Hodgson is a c*nt who is deliberately putting out teams to lose so he'll get a payoff.

And he obviously should be sacked.

 

Do you really believe that or are you on a wind up?

I hope for your sake its the latter.

Edited September 24, 2010 by AL66GOLF
sp

[23CARRAGOLD]

Do you really believe that or are you on a wind up?

I hope for your sake its the latter.

 

Irony is lost on you pal isn't it. :whistle:

[TommyW]

Seriously though although I don't want him here, we can at least treat him with a modicum of respect, the fact that people couldn't afford that to the previous manager by the end doesn't mean others should feel justified in behaving the same way to his successor.

 

wholeheartedly agree

[stringvest]

fair enough, I havent seen anything on here to rival the abuse 'he who shall not be named' got last year, I havent seen anyone call him a c*nt, or anyone suggest Roy is deliberately putting teams out to lose so he'll get a pay off, for the most part its been appraisals of his performance so far and his career to date... which is fair game for me

 

and I havent actually seen anyone say he should be sacked though I do confess I dont read every thread

 

I think you'll find he's been called a c*nt plenty of times, and lots of posts suggesting or demanding he should be sacked, though I don't think anyone's accused him of trying to lose on purpose to win himself a payoff. Not yet anyway.

 

I'm far from impressed with what we've seen so far, who wouldn't be, but I do believe he needs the chance to be able to put his ideas into action. If he gets that opportunity, then he will (quite rightly) stand or fall on the results.

[diego]

The key difference is the advent of the internet which allows the masses of ill-informed to spout shite on a whim, and a 24/7 news culture which created a vacuum that has to be filled, usually with idle or malicious speculation or badly constructed hypotheses. /QUOTE]

 

Oh the irony from you - the sneering, vacuous propagator of lies, insults and diverse other forms of personal attacks against Rafa, most of the players and supporters who don't agree with you. The only aspect of the club you seem to support is the business side - administration and ownership. But you could do that by joining the Chamber of Commerce and leave LFC alone.

[Dicko]

fair enough, I havent seen anything on here to rival the abuse 'he who shall not be named' got last year, I havent seen anyone call him a c*nt, or anyone suggest Roy is deliberately putting teams out to lose so he'll get a pay off, for the most part its been appraisals of his performance so far and his career to date... which is fair game for me

 

and I havent actually seen anyone say he should be sacked though I do confess I dont read every thread

 

Hodgson is a c*nt who is deliberately putting out teams to lose so he'll get a payoff.

 

And he obviously should be sacked.

 

Seriously though although I don't want him here, we can at least treat him with a modicum of respect, the fact that people couldn't afford that to the previous manager by the end doesn't mean others should feel justified in behaving the same way to his successor.

 

This is not having a go at you btw.

 

Do you really believe that or are you on a wind up?

I hope for your sake its the latter.

Whoosh.