Game thread: Mancs away

[t1971]

 

He was fuming at the end in that dugout.

 

 

 

Why didnt he go for the win? Why did he try to hold out for the draw instead of acting on our fortune of being back in the game? I hope he was furious with himself at the end in the dugout.

[vonk]

Really? He has his full backs seemingly refusing to block crosses. His substitutions are baffling ie waiting until 78mins to change it at City and Brum (and Jova for Meireles today), quotes like "I didnt have high expectations anyway" regarding Birmingham are disgraceful, his away record with 3 different clubs in this league is atrocious, we've not played 1 remotely good first half under him, we sit back way to much which has led to even the likes of West Brom dominating us for spells. Do I need to go on?

 

Theres loads of concerns and apologies if im wrong but I suspect your faith is based on a hatred of the last manager rather than actually thinking Hodgson is any good.

 

His next move should be dropping Johnson. But your point about the Meireles sub is ridiculous as the guy was gone. And what does his away record with a worst set of players have to do with it. If I have shit players I expect to have a worst than average away record in this league. Let's see what he does with better players after a couple of months, eh?

[Antynwa]

Really? He has his full backs seemingly refusing to block crosses. His substitutions are baffling ie waiting until 78mins to change it at City and Brum (and Jova for Meireles today), quotes like "I didnt have high expectations anyway" regarding Birmingham are disgraceful, his away record with 3 different clubs in this league is atrocious, we've not played 1 remotely good first half under him, we sit back way to much which has led to even the likes of West Brom dominating us for spells. Do I need to go on?

 

Theres loads of concerns and apologies if im wrong but I suspect your faith is based on a hatred of the last manager rather than actually thinking Hodgson is any good.

 

All valid points, until you remember that it is only the second month into the new season. It's only Konchesky's 2nd game for us, and Johnson has always been a shit defender.

 

What has his away record with his other clubs got to do with anything? When you consider we just lost 3-2 at Old Trafford coming back from behind to level it it's not exactly end of the world type shit now is it?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from happy at what I've seen but I'm far from spitting blood at the situation. He needs time, in-fact I'd go as far as to say he needs till Christmas to stamp his authority.

 

You say my support of Hodgson has something to do with my 'hatred' of the previous manager. Well I could easily turn that back on you and others and say the bitterness over his departure has seen the likes of you over criticise Hodgson.

 

We've had injuries, players refusing to play, Torres seemingly stuck in the middle of a time warp. Cole playing his 2nd game in the league, and Raul starting his first league game.

 

It's going to be hard, it's going to be tough, everything considered what we did and how we performed at Old Trafford isn't exactly a disgrace IMO.

[usernameunknown]

His next move should be dropping Johnson. But your point about the Meireles sub is ridiculous as the guy was gone.

 

I didnt say Meireles should have stayed on did I? Jovanovic shouldnt have come on for him.

 

Read things before flipping out.

[vonk]

Why didnt he go for the win? Why did he try to hold out for the draw instead of acting on our fortune of being back in the game? I hope he was furious with himself at the end in the dugout.

 

What makes you think he wasn't? I didn't see him taking off any strikers?

[Antynwa]

Why didnt he go for the win? Why did he try to hold out for the draw instead of acting on our fortune of being back in the game? I hope he was furious with himself at the end in the dugout.

 

That was my biggest disappointment in what Hodgson did.

 

But in all honesty, I don't think we where ever going to win that game.

[vonk]

I didnt say Meireles should have stayed on did I? Jovanovic shouldnt have come on for him.

 

Read things before flipping out.

 

So who should have? Babel, Lucas? The thing about Jova is he works his socks off and was a much better option than anyone else on the bench.

 

And all those who are knocking him for not going for the win, name one negative change he made?

[Red Phoenix]

Superb! Absolutely fantastic. Wish I could rep you...

 

Did it for you.

[t1971]

That was my biggest disappointment in what Hodgson did.

 

But in all honesty, I don't think we where ever going to win that game.

 

We had a great chance of getting the win at 2 2. If we had a go at them they would have been rattled. But we tried to ride it out for the point and that was never going to work there.

[Pidge]

I don't see what Hodgson did wrong. That's not to say he got everything spot on, and perhaps should have made a different change when he brought Raul off, but thats another matter.

 

I don't think we played as bad as people made us out to have played. I truly don't, if people look back at that match the only thing we where lacking (pfft only) was a commanding defender, and someone in the attacking third with the ability to do something special. After the first 15 minutes, and before the United goal we where quite comfortable. We didn't do anything too strenuous, but we kept the ball well, our passing was good to watch and we certainly weren't shit. Before the 1st United goal I fancied us to get a point, I really did.

 

In the second half, a combination of good luck. shit United defending and throwing caution to the wind saw us get back to 2-2. Now maybe I'm just a pessemist. but did ANYONE fancy us to get the win after that? Looking at the face of it you could have said the momentum was with us. But we didn't have the stamina to match, had that been at Anfield I would have fancied us. But at Old Trafford, not a chance. Not with Rooney, not with Berbatov on his happy pills and not with the players they have on the bench.

 

Back to Hodgson specifically though, I don't understand peoples concerns about him, I do in the respect of him not being a big name and what not. But in terms of what he's trying to achieve. I don't. He needs time, he needs the time given to his past managers to get things right. As mentioned by others, the team was right and so was the formation.

 

When we got down to it, we where just lacking upfront. That's where we needed some more firepower, now whether thats a combination of the fact we fucked up in the transfer market again, or we have no money is a different matter.

 

Hodgson is a new manager, we're not even 2 months into the season. We've just given one of the best teams in the country a run for their money and pushed them further than we did last season at their ground, and we have pushed them further than most teams will at Old Trafford. I'm not saying it's a cause for celebration, but lets put it into perspective here.

 

We've got a new manager, still learning about his players, still trying to implement his style of play, our club is being torn apart at the top, and Fernando Torres is playing like a bag of shite. When you consider what happened today, yes it always hurts to lose to that lot. But jesus christ I have felt worse after a match.

 

It's going to be a long hard season, we're going to be frustrated, we're going to see our thin squad tested to the limit and we're going to have trials and tribulations over the next few months at board level.

 

Ant, you've peaked. This is your zenith.

[dennis tooth]

Some people need to listen to Stevie's interview after the match. OT is a tough place to go and apart from the 4-1 we were regularly treated to much worse performances than today. We were just trying to get a foothold in the first half, but we actually played well second half. Nando was at fault for the first, no-one for the second and Carra was badly done for the third. Worst player on the pitch was Glen Johnson. He was mugged every time by an old man. Have to say I thought Skrtel, Poulsen, Cole had decent games. For the whoppers who criticised the Meireles substitution, if you'd been watching football foe more than a couple of years you'd see he was out on his feet. The substitution of Maxi was a good one (he was shite) but sadly Ngog is not the right man. Babel could have made a difference??? When, in all his years at the club, has that waste of space ever made a difference.

 

Gutted at the result but those of you criticising Hodgson are well out of order. He was fuming at the end in that dugout.

 

Once again, lets bring fucking Rafa into it though. Like his teams did much better there?

 

1 Chelsea

2 Arsenal

3 Man Utd

4 Man City

 

5 Tottenham

6 Newcastle

7 Fulham

8 Aston Villa

9 Blackpool

10 West Brom

11 Sunderland

12 Birmingham

13 Bolton

14 Blackburn

15 Wolverhampton

16 Liverpool

17 Stoke

18 Wigan

19 Everton

20 West Ham

[Phoenix]

So who should have? Babel, Lucas? The thing about Jova is he works his socks off and was a much better option than anyone else on the bench.

 

And all those who are knocking him for not going for the win, name one negative change he made?

 

back to the counter attacking...sitting deep rather than going for the jugular at 2-2. it doesnt necessarily have to about the personnel but the ethos, the tactics and ambition.

[Red Phoenix]

Ok, before I go : I'm surprised at one thing. How little service Nando got. Am sick of it. People who say Nando is doing shit just no, I cannot be bothered even talking about it. He is not getting service, just like he wasn't right back when Robbie Keane was playing for us. We're a fucking mess.

 

Half our problem is supplying the strikers. And it makes me feel ill nearly every match. Maxi, Cole, Gerrard, Jova, etc. We still do not do it right.

[usernameunknown]

 

What has his away record with his other clubs got to do with anything? When you consider we just lost 3-2 at Old Trafford coming back from behind to level it it's not exactly end of the world type shit now is it?

 

 

He's shown no clue how to win away in England, thats a pretty big concern for me. Just like his overall CV. I thought managers were generally chosen based on their CV? His has some good bits and very concerning bits.

 

 

You say my support of Hodgson has something to do with my 'hatred' of the previous manager. Well I could easily turn that back on you and others and say the bitterness over his departure has seen the likes of you over criticise Hodgson.

 

 

Erm not quite. Me in early May :

 

"So desperate for a new manager yet he wont go (to Juve at least) and we cant afford to sack him. Limbo."

 

"I'd like him to resign or take the Juventus job though."

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/2251651-post61.html

 

I badly wanted him to go, I badly didnt want this guy hired.

[Squabblefest]

Disapponting.

 

An drearily average Manchester United team with an unplayable forward against a team struggling for form and only beginning to take shape under a new manager. That the result for them was never the foregone conclusion it could have been was mostly down to Gerrard and a sparkling second half performance from an £11 mil signing still getting used to his team-mates.

 

A first half performance of crippling self-conciousness, anxiety strewn passing and an inability to second guess a team-mates position gave United the initiative and again our lack of offensive passing just invited the opposition to come at us. And so our disappointing record at OT continues.

 

Roy does seems to be learning though. The Poulsen/Lucas experiment was mercifully aborted. Jovanovic was dropped, Gerrard was played deeper and looked better than he has in the last few games but some familiar problems remained. Too big a gulf between attack and midfield, defending hopelessly deep for the first half and refusing to take the initiative and play on instinct until forced to do so. Those things are only so familiar because they've been seen far too often, and not just this season either.

 

Once again, a worrying amount of players were below par. Maxi struggled, which came as a surprise after such an impressive performance midweek. Konchesky played himself into trouble half a dozen more times than is allowable at OT and Cole was largely peripheral as well. In a side still waiting to gel, four or five players struggling to impose themselves means there's trouble ahead. And so it proved.

 

Plus points? There are none. We've just lost to Man United and the pain will be with us for days. Nowhere near as long as for them after the 4-1 defeat, (and Fergusons trenchant criticsm of Rafa at the weekend can only be seen in light of the humilating defeat Benitez inflicted on him, no doubt he'll be a lot nicer about Roy now the three points are safe), but the pain will linger all the same.

 

This shouldn't overshadow a decent second half performance though.

It shouldn't overshadow the fact that Miereles and Poulsen look a better bet to get us points than Lucas and Masch last season, that Torres will come through this shocking loss of form, (it's sometimes forgotten that he's still comparatively young and has suffered some terrible injuries recently. The lad's entitled to a blip in my opinion). It shouldn't overshadow the fact that Cole remains the best signing we've made in years or that any new manager coming to a club as chaotic as ours, with the fixture list we've had would probably have struggled just as much as Roy, if not more.

 

We've been beaten and it hurts and rightly so. These type of performances are to be expected in a managers first few months at the club and that shouldn't be forgotten.

 

But, we were infinitely better today than against Man City though, in the same way that we were infinitely better against a decent Steaua team than against Robotniki as well. Despite it all, we still seem to be heading in the right direction and when this pain fades it should be a bit clearer.

 

It's going to take a fucking while though, I'm off to get pissed.

[Pidge]

We had a great chance of getting the win at 2 2. If we had a go at them they would have been rattled. But we tried to ride it out for the point and that was never going to work there.

 

In the aftermath of our second goal we DID have a couple of chances, Roy did not stand up and tell us to drop back as soon as we scored. If Meireles found the other side of the post with his header or if Evans had not quite reached the ball when Torres had run in behind him again we could have gone ahead. We were pushed back because Utd are a good team and found the extra gear to stop our momentum, press us and push us back.

[Antynwa]

He's shown no clue how to win away in England, thats a pretty big concern for me. Just like his overall CV. I thought managers were generally chosen based on their CV? His has some good bits and very concerning bits.

 

 

 

Erm not quite. Me in early May :

 

"So desperate for a new manager yet he wont go (to Juve at least) and we cant afford to sack him. Limbo."

 

"I'd like him to resign or take the Juventus job though."

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/2251651-post61.html

 

I badly wanted him to go, I badly didnt want this guy hired.

 

 

I stand corrected

[Mathewbet1]

The sad fact is we are 10 points behind Chelsea after 5 games. Read that again. Has to be some kind of record for us that.

[rafarubbish]

united deserved the 3points, thought konchesky did ok tbh they werent alot he could do with the goal or indeed when nani and oshea were 2 against 1 down the right, cole did ok but expected more, poulsen isnt going to offer much more than lucas with some worrying back passes and a bit too cool in possesion at times, meireles impressed me alot and think he will prove to be our best signing in midfield since alonso, its frustating to see 3 goals conceded from a corner and 2 crosses and think the biggest problem between carragher,skrytel and agger is one is as bad as the other at the moment, glen johnson is awful at right back, always out of position and never really threatened going forward, maxi offered very little as well, alot of hard work ahead for roy and his staff if there seriously going to mount a challenge for fourth

[Pidge]

Disapponting.

 

An drearily average Manchester United team with an unplayable forward against a team struggling for form and only beginning to take shape under a new manager. That the result for them was never the foregone conclusion it could have been was mostly down to Gerrard and a sparkling second half performance from an £11 mil signing still getting used to his team-mates.

 

A first half performance of crippling self-conciousness, anxiety strewn passing and an inability to second guess a team-mates position gave United the initiative and again our lack of offensive passing just invited the opposition to come at us. And so our disappointing record at OT continues.

 

Roy does seems to be learning though. The Poulsen/Lucas experiment was mercifully aborted. Jovanovic was dropped, Gerrard was played deeper and looked better than he has in the last few games but some familiar problems remained. Too big a gulf between attack and midfield, defending hopelessly deep for the first half and refusing to take the initiative and play on instinct until forced to do so. Those things are only so familiar because they've been seen far too often, and not just this season either.

 

Once again, a worrying amount of players were below par. Maxi struggled, which came as a surprise after such an impressive performance midweek. Konchesky played himself into trouble half a dozen more times than is allowable at OT and Cole was largely peripheral as well. In a side still waiting to gel, four or five players struggling to impose themselves means there's trouble ahead. And so it proved.

 

Plus points? There are none. We've just lost to Man United and the pain will be with us for days. Nowhere near as long as for them after the 4-1 defeat, (and Fergusons trenchant criticsm of Rafa at the weekend can only be seen in light of the humilating defeat Benitez inflicted on him, no doubt he'll be a lot nicer about Roy now the three points are safe), but the pain will linger all the same.

 

This shouldn't overshadow a decent second half performance though.

It shouldn't overshadow the fact that Miereles and Poulsen look a better bet to get us points than Lucas and Masch last season, that Torres will come through this shocking loss of form, (it's sometimes forgotten that he's still comparatively young and has suffered some terrible injuries recently. The lad's entitled to a blip in my opinion). It shouldn't overshadow the fact that Cole remains the best signing we've made in years or that any new manager coming to a club as chaotic as ours, with the fixture list we've had would probably have struggled just as much as Roy, if not more.

 

We've been beaten and it hurts and rightly so. These type of performances are to be expected in a managers first few months at the club and that shouldn't be forgotten.

 

But, we were infinitely better today than against Man City though, in the same way that we were infinitely better against a decent Steaua team than against Robotniki as well. Despite it all, we still seem to be heading in the right direction and when this pain fades it should be a bit clearer.

 

It's going to take a fucking while though, I'm off to get pissed.

 

Is that perspective? Surely not.

[Juan Galonso]

1 Chelsea

2 Arsenal

3 Man Utd

4 Man City

 

5 Tottenham

6 Newcastle

7 Fulham

8 Aston Villa

9 Blackpool

10 West Brom

11 Sunderland

12 Birmingham

13 Bolton

14 Blackburn

15 Wolverhampton

16 Liverpool

17 Stoke

18 Wigan

19 Everton

20 West Ham

 

Played 5.

[t1971]

Ok, before I go : I'm surprised at one thing. How little service Nando got. Am sick of it. People who say Nando is doing shit just no, I cannot be bothered even talking about it. He is not getting service, just like he wasn't right back when Robbie Keane was playing for us. We're a fucking mess.

 

Half our problem is supplying the strikers. And it makes me feel ill nearly every match. Maxi, Cole, Gerrard, Jova, etc. We still do not do it right.

 

Tried his hardest today but he is being given nothing to work with. Same at Birmingham. we are not making the best use out of him. I had him 3rd for MOM today. Won the 2 set pieces we scored from. Carried the ball well a few times. Looked like he gave a fuck.

[Josef Svejk]

4-0 would have been a more accurately reflection of that match. We were shocking. Gerrard and Pepe aside, woeful.

 

Carragher was possibly the worst of the lot. But I suppose it isn't politically correct to say that around here...

[Brownie]

The league table means very little at the moment. I always say that you shouldn't look at it until after 10 games. Is it acceptable for us to be 10 points behind Chelsea already? Of course not, but when you compare the opening fixtures, it's like chalk and cheese. Also, we're clearly not chasing the title this season, we're after fourth place.

[Red Phoenix]

We should judge ourselves on who we are, not on the performances against our rivals. But we should play every game as if we were playing our rivals.