I'm Embarrassed to Admit It, I've All But Given Up on Hodgson

[The Dude Abides]

Didn't want him in the first place, and nothing I've seen form him since has filled me with any kind of confidence at all.

 

The one thing i thought he'd bring at the very least was a fresh start. But watching us, we've left off from last season, and the whole demeanour of the side is one completely lacking in confidence and belief. It's like they have all already resigned themselves to failure this season. And I'm right there with them.

 

The football is a problem too. I just think it's going to very hard for the players to gain any kind of confidence, that they can build on...playing the kind of dire, negative football Roy likes to play.

 

To sum up. UGH!!!

[Gary Mac Legend]

Dunno how any conclusion can be reached in September.

 

For many (myself included), it's not conclusions being reached. It's worries and reservations we had when Roy was confirmed, now becoming apparent at the start of the season. Remember how we began last season? We never recovered, I'm worried that if we get battered on sunday, and continue this poor form then we'll never recover.

[t1971]

For many (myself included), it's not conclusions being reached. It's worries and reservations we had when Roy was confirmed, now becoming apparent at the start of the season. Remember how we began last season? We never recovered, I'm worried that if we get battered on sunday, and continue this poor form then we'll never recover.

 

Yeah im not making my mind up after 8 games. I didnt want him from the start based on his previous 30 years management. Im not calling for him to be sacked, i dont believe anyone can come in and make us challengers now. Same reason i thought it was a waste of time sacking Rafa. Im just pissed off that we spent £8m changing managers and i dont believe we are going to get any improvement for it.

[Woo]

The issue is this. Anyone with a level head, knew at the time that sacking Benitez and replacing him with a far inferior coach was not the answer. Unfortunately, too many whoppers in our fan base, who fell in with this media line that Benitez should go, and the board capitalised and took that oppurtunity to remove a thorn in their side. Therefore, they got away with it, brought in a yes man or patsy, fans were happy cause he's english, will stick an arm around the players shoulders and ruffle their hair etc.

 

Sacking Rafa was not the answer to what exactly?

 

So if you wanted the previous manager sacked, then you're a whopper?

 

The media had fuck all to do with fans wanting the manager to go. It was the shit signings, shit football and constant politicking that fans got fed up off. Not what some nonce in the London press says from the wi-fi on his laptop in some poncey Soho coffee shop.

 

How is Hodgson a yes man or a patsy? Seriously? He's been blunt about the urgent need for new owners and critical of the current owners every single time he's been asked about them! Which is just as much as Rafa ever did, except he mainly did it with these cryptic answers to questions in press conferences.

 

Fans were happy because after six years of highs and lows, it was time for a change. A fresh start. Rafa made his position untenable due to generally performing his job to a standard that simply wasn't good enough. The fact that he was constantly trying to undermine his boss and couldn't focus on doing what he was paid to do

 

What most of you are coming to realise, and will realise is that this managerial change was without doubt a stupid move (In football terms, not for the board) that we will suffer the consequences of. Transfer funds quite clearly disappeared in the summer, but you won't hear roy complain, instead you'll get excuses such as there were no good strikers available, we have enough quality here (We clearly don't).

 

He's trying to punch well above his weight, I don't blame him, if I was offered such a job promotion, I would jump at it, regardless of how up to it I am. The issue lies now, with fans who would not offer the former manager a chance to correct his mistakes last season, but are now in a catch 22 situation where they slowly realising the mistake made in bringing this manager in. Don't tell me he's 4 games in, what are you going to say in 5 months time? Wait and see.

 

EDIT: Sacking him at any time this season is not the solution. He deserves at the very least, until May. Regardless of whether we get new owners or not. He's taken the job on, he deserves his chance, I just don't have high hopes for him.

 

We'll see at the end of the season if it was a bad footballing move. I'm still confident that this inferior coach will have a superior season than the last one. To me, that would vindicate the change in management to be the right choice (under the current owners, anyway)

 

So Rafa moaning about a lack of transfer funds would suddenly lead to more funds becoming available, would it? What Roy actually said, is that the money to spend wasn't there until very late in the transfer window (i.e. when Mascherano was sold), and that there were no viable options at that time. What was he supposed to say? N'Gog and Babel are shit so we're fucked? He has to try and instil confidence and belief in to the players at his disposal. It's what he's been brought here to do (amongst other things). I doubt the money was there at all, really, but would you rather Roy spent most of his time moaning about what's not there, or concentrated on getting the best out of what is there? He's a manager, not a politician.

 

Any fan who starts making judgements four games in to a new managers reign, especially on a World Cup year, is a raving lunatic as far as I'm concerned, and an embarrassment to what was once a brilliant set of supporters. I genuinely don't mean that to sound in a 'superfan' sort of way, but to make definitive judgements in September defies any reasonable logic.

 

The end of the season is the time to judge.

 

PS: Not all of the above is directly aimed at you, GMcL. I sort of rambled on for a bit there.

[Iantn]

How is Hodgson a yes man or a patsy? Seriously?

 

I don't think this comes under those two things but I deffo think that he was brought in with at least half a thought from those making the decision that he'd take the flack if things didn't work. And therefore they wouldn't get much shite.

 

I think if the King was in charge and everything had happened as has happened then the owners and certain players would be getting more stick because there wouldn't be threads like this.

 

Also given the way this forum, and countless other places, have been when we are only 4 games into the season I think that kinda proves them right on that score.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I'm concerned at how deep he has set us up, pretty much nullifying the threat Torres poses.

 

All he needs to do is ask Rafa what he did for those last 11 games of the season when we finished second. And he'll be sorted. Just got to keep everyone happy, do that, job's a good un.

[Red Nick]

I am actually amazed there are 14 of us this early in his managerial career, I never wanted him appointed and wanted him sacked pretty soon afterwards, he is Houllier in disguee without charisma and will to win.

[Gary Mac Legend]

Sacking Rafa was not the answer to what exactly?

 

The improvement needed to get us to where we need to be, which is the top four.

 

So if you wanted the previous manager sacked, then you're a whopper?

 

Not necessarily, but many who wanted him gone were whoppers and acted like it with constant moaning, and getting on his back. Offering no support to him and the team, immaturely putting 'Rafa Out' on the end of every sentence and bollocks like that.

 

The media had fuck all to do with fans wanting the manager to go. It was the shit signings, shit football and constant politicking that fans got fed up off. Not what some nonce in the London press says from the wi-fi on his laptop in some poncey Soho coffee shop.

 

Sacking Rafa wasn't the answer to what you've just sited. Shit football, constant politicking, shit signings, it's all still here funnily enough. If you don't think all of that Rafa losing the dressing room bollocks, zonal marking, net spend, Gerrard in CM etc. etc. didn't affect the mindsets of many of our fans, then you're being naive. You're obviously mature enough to ignore those scummy rags and the shit they publish about our club, however many aren't.

 

How is Hodgson a yes man or a patsy? Seriously? He's been blunt about the urgent need for new owners and critical of the current owners every single time he's been asked about them! Which is just as much as Rafa ever did, except he mainly did it with these cryptic answers to questions in press conferences.

 

Hodgson got the job because he was willing to do whatever the board tell him to. Seriously, don't tell me you think he got his job on merit.

 

Fans were happy because after six years of highs and lows, it was time for a change. A fresh start. Rafa made his position untenable due to generally performing his job to a standard that simply wasn't good enough. The fact that he was constantly trying to undermine his boss and couldn't focus on doing what he was paid to do

 

5 years of generally highs. 1 year of lows. One poor season, yes that's right, one poor season under Rafa. That was enough for many to want him out. If Roy has a poor season this year, he'll be defended and afforded all the excuses Rafa wasn't.

 

What we did was, remove an elite manager, for political reasons (Not football) then appoint someone far inferior because he'll be easy to control by the board.

 

We'll see at the end of the season if it was a bad footballing move. I'm still confident that this inferior coach will have a superior season than the last one. To me, that would vindicate the change in management to be the right choice (under the current owners, anyway)

 

Confident we'll improve on last season based on what? Because you want to believe it, that's what you're basing it on?

 

So Rafa moaning about a lack of transfer funds would suddenly lead to more funds becoming available, would it? What Roy actually said, is that the money to spend wasn't there until very late in the transfer window (i.e. when Mascherano was sold), and that there were no viable options at that time. What was he supposed to say? N'Gog and Babel are shit so we're fucked? He has to try and instil confidence and belief in to the players at his disposal. It's what he's been brought here to do (amongst other things). I doubt the money was there at all, really, but would you rather Roy spent most of his time moaning about what's not there, or concentrated on getting the best out of what is there? He's a manager, not a politician.

 

As has been said before, Roy took on the job knowing full well who he was working for, what he was working under. (Makes you wonder why he took on the job then). Rafa took on the job, thinking year after year he would be able to continuously improve us and achieve all his goals here. He was mistreated by the board plain and simple, then hung out to dry by our fans. Fucking disgraceful, we hounded out our best manager since Dalglish, a man who was capable of bringing back the good times if he was given healthy conditions to work under. It's appalling, we're worse than Newcastle.

 

Any fan who starts making judgements four games in to a new managers reign, especially on a World Cup year, is a raving lunatic as far as I'm concerned, and an embarrassment to what was once a brilliant set of supporters. I genuinely don't mean that to sound in a 'superfan' sort of way, but to make definitive judgements in September defies any reasonable logic.

 

The end of the season is the time to judge.

 

PS: Not all of the above is directly aimed at you, GMcL. I sort of rambled on for a bit there.

 

 

Like I said, I've not made any conclusions. Any comment I'm making now, I'm being consistent, I had all the same reservations when Roy was confirmed back in July. Now I'm starting to see them being realised slowly but surely, alarm bells are ringing. If we get smashed on Sunday, there may be no way back.

[Irishlad]

The 3rd tag in sums this thread up. Kudos to whoever is responsible for that one.

[Hermes]

4 league games, some people should stick to playing kids football games on their computer.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Finishing 6th is in no way acceptable. If we don't finish in the top four he should be fired. Last season's team under a good manager would have had us challenging apparently so no fucking way is 6th good enough this year.

 

Top four or he should be sent out to pasture.

[chauncey]

The 'Sky generation fans' tag made me laugh because, let's not forget, without that Skyperbole we'd probably still have a very good coach in charge. 'Sky generation fans' helped fuel the Benitez bonfire and this nonsense should not be any different.

 

Except this *is* different because Roy is respected by the media and his peers - based on his nationality and past successes - hence the TORRES IS A LAZY CUNT narrative most of the nationals are currently adopting.

 

If we suffer a run of bad results (which, let's be honest, we haven't) I do not expect Hodgson to get dry-bummed in the back pages; even if we're playing shite football home and away I do not expect Hodgson to get slated by the press. Sure, he'll be crucified by 'Sky generation fans' and n00bs from the internet but I would love to lash a patent on the term 'previous regime' because that baby will get an airing and a half this season, make no mistake.

 

In media terms 'previous regime' = 'Benitez regime' when, in truth, our Fourth Estate should be slamming THE CURRENT REGIME. They all pay lip service to the 'well-publicised board problems' but that's all they will do now because we have one of those untouchable English managers.

 

Sometimes you just have to doff your cap: well played Purslow. You and the boys played a blinder - power of the press indeed.

[Sandman]

Agree with quite a bit of that chauncey.

[VladimirIlyich]

I dont like to criticise the previous manager because he was and still is a brilliant coach/manager but when he was appointed i felt we'd appointed a manager for European football and that proved to be the case with 2 champions league finals.

 

But the previous manager only finished 5th in the league and without istanbul we would have only been in the UEFA cup then.

 

The point is that he was given at least a season to change the style of play and get his message across and the current manager deserves the same.

 

To those saying i never wanted him appointed,well that argument is irrelevant because hes here and he needs our support.

The football last year was awful and with better players so its a bit early to expect much of a change in results or style and the world cup has not helped matters either.

[stringvest]

The 'Sky generation fans' tag made me laugh because, let's not forget, without that Skyperbole we'd probably still have a very good coach in charge. 'Sky generation fans' helped fuel the Benitez bonfire and this nonsense should not be any different.

 

Except this *is* different because Roy is respected by the media and his peers - based on his nationality and past successes - hence the TORRES IS A LAZY CUNT narrative most of the nationals are currently adopting.

 

If we suffer a run of bad results (which, let's be honest, we haven't) I do not expect Hodgson to get dry-bummed in the back pages; even if we're playing shite football home and away I do not expect Hodgson to get slated by the press. Sure, he'll be crucified by 'Sky generation fans' and n00bs from the internet but I would love to lash a patent on the term 'previous regime' because that baby will get an airing and a half this season, make no mistake.

 

In media terms 'previous regime' = 'Benitez regime' when, in truth, our Fourth Estate should be slamming THE CURRENT REGIME. They all pay lip service to the 'well-publicised board problems' but that's all they will do now because we have one of those untouchable English managers.

 

Sometimes you just have to doff your cap: well played Purslow. You and the boys played a blinder - power of the press indeed.

 

Madness. Benitez had to go. Not because he's alienated the press, but because he's done a rank bad job last season and had pissed half the playing staff off. We wouldn't have a world class player left (apart from Reina) had he stayed. We'd be all over the floor.

 

Benitez's antics actually distracted the press from the ownership issue. At least it gets reported now, rather than his constant whining about other clubs interest in him. Hodgson has already gone public on the need for new owners.

[Kennys_spell]

Faith or no faith...he should be given at a least a season.

 

It just scares me that after a season we might be so far behind from where we were two seasons ago. At that stage, it's a downward spiral.

 

I don't get the "He must be given at least a season/he deserves a chance/We'll support him because he's our manager" approach.

 

He was put in place by people I don't trust - simple as that. None of those people have the interests of our club at heart and they even went as far as dismissing Kenny Dalglish and his football credentials publicly to get Hodgson in place. I just don't trust their motives.

 

Given the above, and Hodgson's record over 30 years in management (which as far as I am concerned is underwhelming to say the least), the people that were in the frame before Hodgson was given the job (Pellgrini, Dalglish, Deschamp) and the way the team has been set up from the start I really don't see anything that would give anyone hope that he will somehow miraculously change his managment ethos and style to deliver us the Premiership Title.

 

All of this at a cost of approx £8 Mill to get him in place.

 

Sorry - I just don't get it.

[silverlining]

The problem as i see it comes when you don't rate him to begin with. That's key for me. If that's the case and you are then subjected to the dogshit thats been served up so far then obviously you're not going to cut him much slack, the overriding sentiment is going to be let's rectify this mistake before too much damage is done. I realise i'm probably being a tad unfair on him but i just don't rate him. It isn't about judging him after 8 games or whatever, as much as some people would have you believe that it is.

 

That's fair enough

[silverlining]

The 'Sky generation fans' tag made me laugh because, let's not forget, without that Skyperbole we'd probably still have a very good coach in charge. 'Sky generation fans' helped fuel the Benitez bonfire and this nonsense should not be any different.

 

Except this *is* different because Roy is respected by the media and his peers - based on his nationality and past successes - hence the TORRES IS A LAZY CUNT narrative most of the nationals are currently adopting.

 

If we suffer a run of bad results (which, let's be honest, we haven't) I do not expect Hodgson to get dry-bummed in the back pages; even if we're playing shite football home and away I do not expect Hodgson to get slated by the press. Sure, he'll be crucified by 'Sky generation fans' and n00bs from the internet but I would love to lash a patent on the term 'previous regime' because that baby will get an airing and a half this season, make no mistake.

 

In media terms 'previous regime' = 'Benitez regime' when, in truth, our Fourth Estate should be slamming THE CURRENT REGIME. They all pay lip service to the 'well-publicised board problems' but that's all they will do now because we have one of those untouchable English managers.

 

Sometimes you just have to doff your cap: well played Purslow. You and the boys played a blinder - power of the press indeed.

 

Untouchable?

 

Are you trying to say that if we're, I dunno, 12th at Xmas, Uncle Woy won't get a shoeing from the press?

 

Because - and I hate to break this to you and ruin your well-crafted conspiracy theories - he fucking well will.

[Woo]

The improvement needed to get us to where we need to be, which is the top four.

 

Well we can only see if that's true at the end of the season. But I'm more confident now that we will, than I was at the end of last season when Rafa was still here.

 

Not necessarily, but many who wanted him gone were whoppers and acted like it with constant moaning, and getting on his back. Offering no support to him and the team, immaturely putting 'Rafa Out' on the end of every sentence and bollocks like that.

 

I think you're being incredibly harsh there. It was a small minority who acted like the above. Offered no support to him and the team in what way? There was constant moaning because we were simply awful. The only support that really counts is at the match, and he/they still got that (to an extent, I suppose, as from what I heard the atmosphere was awful at times). Criticising them on the internet is hardly offering no support, it's just a way to vent your frustration really.

 

Sacking Rafa wasn't the answer to what you've just sited. Shit football, constant politicking, shit signings, it's all still here funnily enough. If you don't think all of that Rafa losing the dressing room bollocks, zonal marking, net spend, Gerrard in CM etc. etc. didn't affect the mindsets of many of our fans, then you're being naive. You're obviously mature enough to ignore those scummy rags and the shit they publish about our club, however many aren't.

 

Again, we can only judge whether the football and the signings are shit after an extended period of time. It's not been a great start on the football front, but it's still very early days. As for the politicking, I've not seen the manager get involved in any of that, which is nice, as he's doing what he gets very handsomely paid for: concentrating on the team.

 

As for the media part, if you're daft enough to be misled by propaganda and agenda driven drivel in the media, then you're an idiot (obviously not saying you are, and I don't think many on here think that way, but every fan base will have their mindless, 'Sky' generation if you will).

 

Hodgson got the job because he was willing to do whatever the board tell him to. Seriously, don't tell me you think he got his job on merit.

 

I think some of it was on merit. He showed at Fulham that he can work on a tight budget and get the best out of what he has to work with. Of course under normal circumstances that wouldn't solely be enough to merit getting the Liverpool job, but I can certainly see why the board wanted him.

 

If he wants to work in cohesion with the board then that's his choice. I was sick of the constant fighting between the manager and the hierachy (of course in many parts, Rafa was right to stand up to them when they broke promises, spoke to Klinsmann etc), and given the situation we're in, where hopefully the owners are soon to be gone and have less control over things as they did a few years ago, then I don't see as much of a problem with Roy working with the likes of Purslow & Co as I would have this time last year.

 

5 years of generally highs. 1 year of lows. One poor season, yes that's right, one poor season under Rafa. That was enough for many to want him out. If Roy has a poor season this year, he'll be defended and afforded all the excuses Rafa wasn't.

 

What we did was, remove an elite manager, for political reasons (Not football) then appoint someone far inferior because he'll be easy to control by the board.

 

Personally I think it was more than one poor season, but you're entitled to your opinion, mate. I think the warning signs were there before Athens, and there have been more and more doubts creeping in over the following seasons until I generally just lost faith that Rafa could take us forward. The Rafa debate has been done to death, and I don't really want to drag it back up again.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I wanted him gone mainly for football reasons. I don't doubt for a second there were political motives behind the boards decision, but if he was performing his job well enough then they wouldn't have been in a position to sack him without uproar from the fans. Again, I fail to see how Roy is easier to control. He concentrates on what he has to work with, which is what Rafa should have done, especially considering he brought all but two of the players in his squad to the club himself. Do you mean because Roy isn't briefing the press against the owners, or giving out cryptic answers to questions regarding ownership? I guess it all depends how you interpret things, which is fine, but I think you're doing Roy a great disservice here with little evidence to back it up.

 

Confident we'll improve on last season based on what? Because you want to believe it, that's what you're basing it on?

 

Obviously I want to believe it, but I'm confident we'll improve upon last season due to a few reasons:

 

- I think a lot of the senior players lost faith in the manager, and their performances will improve (not that I condone some of the lethargic, uninterested performances they put in at times last season).

 

- I think Roy has already identified and addressed certain weaknesses within the side. I think Konchesky will prove to be a solid, shrewd signing and instantly improve what was a problem position for us last year. I think Meireles will give us a better option in midfield than Aquilani did (although I'd have kept Aquilani), and I think Poulsen is a better player than Lucas. Also Joe Cole will give us some much needed creativity.

 

- I think Roy will get more out of the squad as a whole than Rafa did last season. Not solely because he's English, or a good man manager, but because I think he can draw on his vast experience and knowledge to improve things.

 

As has been said before, Roy took on the job knowing full well who he was working for, what he was working under. (Makes you wonder why he took on the job then). Rafa took on the job, thinking year after year he would be able to continuously improve us and achieve all his goals here. He was mistreated by the board plain and simple, then hung out to dry by our fans. Fucking disgraceful, we hounded out our best manager since Dalglish, a man who was capable of bringing back the good times if he was given healthy conditions to work under. It's appalling, we're worse than Newcastle.

 

Again, all about opinions. I think Roy was thinking that at his age, he may not ever get the chance to work at a club as big as this again. Maybe he thought that if he could keep us competitive and see out the ownership saga, he would have a chance to build his own dynasty at the club under a new hierachy. Can certainly see why he took the job anyway.

 

I think the way Rafa's departure was handled was a fucking shambles, and he certainly deserved to be treated better than that by the board. Think he also took the blunt of the fans frustrations towards the club in general, which again was wrong, but again, I think it's certainly up for debate as to whether he was capable of bringing back the glory days after the way things went. Don't think he would have even if he stayed this season and we got new owners next month. Think he became too embroiled in the politics and the off the field matters, that he lost sight of what was important.

 

Like I said, I've not made any conclusions. Any comment I'm making now, I'm being consistent, I had all the same reservations when Roy was confirmed back in July. Now I'm starting to see them being realised slowly but surely, alarm bells are ringing. If we get smashed on Sunday, there may be no way back.

 

Like I said, mate, not all of it was aimed at you, and I realise you're not making any real judgements as of yet, rather voicing your (valid) concerns. I too share a lot of your reservations, but I think (like you) that he needs (and deserves) to be given a fair chance, as all managers who come to this club are given (and they come here when we're a hell of a lot more stable as a club).

 

I think the opposite, I think after Sunday's game (if we get anything out of it, it will be both a bonus and a big confidence boost), we have a good run of fixtures, in which we can hopefully go on a winning run, and with our big players and new signings getting closer to full fitness, and develop a better understanding of what the new manager wants from them, hopefully the performances and results improve ten fold. We've been given a shit start, pretty sure the most difficult one in our Premier League history, and things can only get better. Well, hopefully.

[Woo]

I don't get the "He must be given at least a season/he deserves a chance/We'll support him because he's our manager" approach.

 

He was put in place by people I don't trust - simple as that. None of those people have the interests of our club at heart and they even went as far as dismissing Kenny Dalglish and his football credentials publicly to get Hodgson in place. I just don't trust their motives.

 

Given the above, and Hodgson's record over 30 years in management (which as far as I am concerned is underwhelming to say the least), the people that were in the frame before Hodgson was given the job (Pellgrini, Dalglish, Deschamp) and the way the team has been set up from the start I really don't see anything that would give anyone hope that he will somehow miraculously change his managment ethos and style to deliver us the Premiership Title.

 

All of this at a cost of approx £8 Mill to get him in place.

 

Sorry - I just don't get it.

 

Because he's at the club, so like we've given those before him, we should give him time to prove us wrong. It's the way we normally do things at this club.

 

Or do you not believe in giving people chances to prove their worth?

 

Maybe you're just supporting the wrong team.

[Sandman]

Good posting by Gary Mac and Woo. Both making valid arguments and neither calling the other a cunt.

 

Good stuff.

[Unrighteous]

You're a prime example of who I was describing.

 

No it wasn't the only move, we could have a European Cup, 2x La Liga, UEFA and FA Cup winning manager. Who is now at the best team in Europe.

 

Someone who is too intelligent to be bedazzled by manager's former achievements and pays attention to the staggering crash in performance? I know.

 

And he's fucking gone. Get over it. He isn't coming back. Thankfully, that is a fact.

[Woo]

Good posting by Gary Mac and Woo. Both making valid arguments and neither calling the other a cunt.

 

Good stuff.

 

Thanks mate. I've generally had a bit of a snobbish attitude towards the FF and barely posted on here since the MF started, but then realised it's a bit cuntish of me given that it was the FF that first brought me to this place, so it's only right that despite the constant bickering and arguing, I still attempt to add something to it.

[TheBitch]

Good posting by Gary Mac and Woo. Both making valid arguments and neither calling the other a cunt.

 

Good stuff.

 

 

Alot of meffs on here would do well to take note of how a forum works well. It involves good debate without the need to resort to childish name calling/bickering.

[Whelan]

Because he's at the club, so like we've given those before him, we should give him time to prove us wrong. It's the way we normally do things at this club.

 

Or do you not believe in giving people chances to prove their worth?

 

Maybe you're just supporting the wrong team.

 

The previous managers were not given time to prove us wrong though! They were given time because we were not sure what we had, two of them had not managed in the premiership aso we gave them time to adjust.

 

We know more or less what Roy is going to give us! And that is the crux of the problem at the moment. We are not basing our judgements on what he could do, but on what he has done, that is the problem.