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How can I be optimistic after that?


WrongIslander
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People quoting our previous draws with Brum are being ignorant or naive. In those previous draws, we've generally dominated possession, created plenty of chances but haven't been clinical enough. Yesterday, we were played off the park, they were disappointed with the draw, we were lucky to escape with it. That's the 4th game in a row this season we've been outplayed. It's worrying beyond belief, we have the scum at OT next weekend.

 

Totally agree. We got our asses kicked yesterday for most of the game. Pepe stopped us getting stuffed. None of our previous draws with birmingham were that bad.

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"Rafa's 50 worst performances" eh?

 

Funny, because I was struggling to remember ANYTHING worse than that first-half since perhaps the sorry days of Houllier's waning tenureship- that was until I remembered City three weeks ago.

 

ok Mr Memory, let me help you..Reading home and away, Wolves and Portsmouth away, Fiorentina away

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I think it's pretty tragic that there are people out there who have no time for Hodgson purely out of spite for the fans who thought it was time for Rafa to go, only weeks into the new season and it's Rafa this and Rafa-fucking-that. And it's clear a minority will actively delight in seeing him fail for that very reason. It's unbelieveably smalltime, not what Liverpool fans should be about.

 

Our raison d'etre at the moment is to simply survive and stay as close to the top of the table for as long as we can until the ownership situation is sorted. For now that's the most anyone can hope for.

 

Perfect post.

 

I've heard and read Rafa's name more in these past few weeks than in the whole time he was here.

 

OK some people loved him and some people hated him but hes gone now. Get over it.

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Thing is, his worst was bad but his best he got us to two CL finals, a few quarters, winning one and an FA cup got us our highest premier points total and 2nd place. Take those away and maybe we'd have got rid of him a lot earlier.

The real question is can Roy match a single one of those acheivements at his best? (In my mind he should better it in all fairness?)[/QUOTE]

 

Why? Why? Why?. he's got even less money than Rafa had for a start. Yesterday's performance was nothing to write home about but I've seen a lot worse under previous managers. I tens to side with section earlier post here. The amount of forumites who actually want to see Hodgeson fail to prove a point is quite sad.

 

Whoa!!! Suddenly money is a factor - When Benitez was here we were told that a "good" manager would get far better performances out of the players already here.

 

We were told to ignore "Net spend" as it had no bearing.

 

If you lot would just keep the goalposts still long enough you may be able to convince me of your argument.

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Although we were slightly behind in possession yesterday,53% to 47% for Birmingham,we actually had 8 shots on target to their 3.

 

And McLeish was made up with Birminghams negative second half performance too.

 

I thought a home side was supposed to try to win?

 

Lets not try and blame Birmingham for parking the bus,the fact is we created absolutely nothing and were utterly shite because we weren't good enough. I could go right through the team, pepe aside, and comment on how nobody stood up to be counted, but to try and blame Birmingham is a piss poor arguement.

 

And for a Liverpool manager, regardless of our current situation, who has a first eleven far superior to that of Birminghams to come out with "my expectations weren't high going into the game" deserves a fucking stark reminder that hes no longer in charge of fulham.

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That post from Section that Wig's quoted is spot on. I even said something similar to my mate yesterday when we were down the pub watching the match.

 

Hodgson was by no means my first choice for the job and I can understand people having reservations, but some of the things that I've read on these boards since yesterday have been nothing short of disgraceful. He's our manager so he has my support. Coming out with personal insults and petty snipes is not on and does nobody any good. It's pretty fucking small time; the type of thing you expect from mong supporters of small clubs on football phone-ins.

 

Apart from a spirited second half against Arsenal, we've been pretty disappointing in the League this season but calling for him to be sacked, like some on here have, is not only out of order, but it's pretty fucking scandalous as well.

 

Most knowledgeable fans around? Best supporters in the land? Don't make me laugh.

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Thing is, his worst was bad but his best he got us to two CL finals, a few quarters, winning one and an FA cup got us our highest premier points total and 2nd place. Take those away and maybe we'd have got rid of him a lot earlier.

The real question is can Roy match a single one of those acheivements at his best? (In my mind he should better it in all fairness?)[/QUOTE]

 

Why? Why? Why?. he's got even less money than Rafa had for a start. Yesterday's performance was nothing to write home about but I've seen a lot worse under previous managers. I tens to side with section earlier post here. The amount of forumites who actually want to see Hodgeson fail to prove a point is quite sad.

 

Er Rafa spent what in his first season? I know it's all relative but let's leave that at that for a minute we were in the CL then so had a chance to win it.

Clearly we aren't this year so it's hard to compare, we finished 5th along with winning CL so that should be the very bare minimum league acceptable finish for me.

 

The problem for me was we weren't trying to win it, we were trying to draw and we didn't even control the possesion or the game. However I agree it's very early and that result alone means little a point against Brum away is not bad but we should be trying to win it and triple the point.

Time will tell of course.

 

Of course I want Roy to be a success and as I say it's not impossible I just think it's highly improbable. If you gave Roy Man City Arab money he'd still not win the league for me but ok. Roy to me is a known quantity in many ways, when Rafa came we barely knew what to expect, we wanted someone to win the league after scraping into the CL and I know many, many people wanted Rafa out after we went out the FA cup so this early judgement is nothing new, he'd have found it hard to stay in the job had the CL not come home. I like Roy but I like lots of people, when I look at his long record I don't see anything that says he has it in him.

 

Some people are OK as they have lowered their expectations, my view is that we cannot afford to do that, it is a massive, massive job to do, bigger that when Rafa came here and with a little less money to spend for sure, that's why we needed someone world class or failing that Kenny, who I still think is world class and big enough for the job, people who point to father time would think he'd gone doollaly like a retired boxer with brain damage, maybe for any other job too much time may have passed but we owed him and I reckon he's been waiting. If he failed fine but for me he deserved his chance and was ideal with him already being on the books.Each year you aren't in the CL you struggle to get back there without massive investment and even then the a lot of the best players don't want to go to somewhere without CL footy while the other guys keep spending, maybe it's hard for us to understand how hard as we've had so much success in it in the last 5 years. Not sure what Roy's highest premier league finish is, maybe someone can look it up. I don't want to pin all our hopes on a sugar daddy coming along, just get someone capable of bringing success under restraints.

Edited by dennis tooth
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the team created one chance against WBA and hardly any chances against Birmingham, so for me Hodgson is not doing well.

 

The team created 5 chances against West Brom. Not very many, but more than one. Yesterday, we had 2 players making their debuts at a notoriously hard place to win at, and we got a result. In the 2 games, we got 4 points.

 

No we haven't a 100% record as Chelsea have, but we have the same points as City/Spurs and are 2 points off 4th. It's not perfect, but it's not atrocious either.

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The fact that we have the same number of points as two of our rivals is only consolation though. City played us off the park, remember? Our perforamances so far under Hodgson have been almost uniformly dire. People can blame the ownership situation, and clearly that is a major issue, but the fact that remains that we have the players to perform much better than this. Why aren't we performing better? I think that deserves a thread of its own to be honest.

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The fact that we have the same number of points as two of our rivals is only consolation though. City played us off the park, remember? Our perforamances so far under Hodgson have been almost uniformly dire. People can blame the ownership situation, and clearly that is a major issue, but the fact that remains that we have the players to perform much better than this. Why aren't we performing better? I think that deserves a thread of its own to be honest.

 

A valid criticism of 'he's gone get over it' two seasons ago when we were trying to win the league (remember that?) was accepting shit results as the mancs and chelsea had poor results on the same day.

 

Our results are judged on us and our performance alone.

 

Yesterday was shite, lets not try to dress it up any other way.

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I must be one of very few, who actually doesn't care about our playing style. I don't care if we're negative, boring, counter attacking, Allardyce style or play like Guardiola's Barca. As long as we're effective, we win games we should comfortably, don't get dominated especially not by WBA at home. None of that is happening, we're shit, we're shit in midfield, our defence is shit, our attack is useless!? It's not the squad either, it's how we're performing as a team, which has been diabolical so far.

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We should of just thought fuck it and got Keegan in

 

To be fair, I'm sure there's been at least once with each manager since Souness I've thought that. Then the moment passes and sanity descends.

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we went there for a goalless draw and that is a fucking shocking attitude at a place like Birmingham no matter how you dress it up. Why were Maxi and Jovanovic on the pitch for 90 minutes - they were both totally inept as an attacking force. Why he didnt bring on Babel god only knows, he couldnt have been any worse and at least he could have given us some pace. Again it was evident that no one in our team can commit or beat a man it's unbelievable. It's not so much the result but the performance.

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Whoa!!! Suddenly money is a factor - When Benitez was here we were told that a "good" manager would get far better performances out of the players already here.

 

We were told to ignore "Net spend" as it had no bearing.

 

If you lot would just keep the goalposts still long enough you may be able to convince me of your argument.

 

TBH I couldn't give a fuck what you think and I'm certainly not trying to convince you to agree with my comment. I wa sactually discussing the OP's post that he expected Hodgson to do better than Rafa's first season when I think by and large most people agree he will do well to get fourth given the shit the club's currently in.

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Whoa!!! Suddenly money is a factor - When Benitez was here we were told that a "good" manager would get far better performances out of the players already here.

 

We were told to ignore "Net spend" as it had no bearing.

 

If you lot would just keep the goalposts still long enough you may be able to convince me of your argument.

 

TBH I couldn't give a fuck what you think and I'm certainly not trying to convince you to agree with my comment. I was actually discussing the OP's post that he expected Hodgson to do better than Rafa's first season when I think by and large most people agree he will do well to get fourth given the shit the club's currently in.

Double post , sorry

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Er Rafa spent what in his first season? I know it's all relative but let's leave that at that for a minute we were in the CL then so had a chance to win it.

Clearly we aren't this year so it's hard to compare, we finished 5th along with winning CL so that should be the very bare minimum league acceptable finish for me.

 

The problem for me was we weren't trying to win it, we were trying to draw and we didn't even control the possesion or the game. However I agree it's very early and that result alone means little a point against Brum away is not bad but we should be trying to win it and triple the point.

Time will tell of course.

 

Of course I want Roy to be a success and as I say it's not impossible I just think it's highly improbable. If you gave Roy Man City Arab money he'd still not win the league for me but ok. Roy to me is a known quantity in many ways, when Rafa came we barely knew what to expect, we wanted someone to win the league after scraping into the CL and I know many, many people wanted Rafa out after we went out the FA cup so this early judgement is nothing new, he'd have found it hard to stay in the job had the CL not come home. I like Roy but I like lots of people, when I look at his long record I don't see anything that says he has it in him.

 

Some people are OK as they have lowered their expectations, my view is that we cannot afford to do that, it is a massive, massive job to do, bigger that when Rafa came here and with a little less money to spend for sure, that's why we needed someone world class or failing that Kenny, who I still think is world class and big enough for the job, people who point to father time would think he'd gone doollaly like a retired boxer with brain damage, maybe for any other job too much time may have passed but we owed him and I reckon he's been waiting. If he failed fine but for me he deserved his chance and was ideal with him already being on the books.Each year you aren't in the CL you struggle to get back there without massive investment and even then the a lot of the best players don't want to go to somewhere without CL footy while the other guys keep spending, maybe it's hard for us to understand how hard as we've had so much success in it in the last 5 years. Not sure what Roy's highest premier league finish is, maybe someone can look it up. I don't want to pin all our hopes on a sugar daddy coming along, just get someone capable of bringing success under restraints.

 

Fair do's. TBH Roy was probably not many people's first choice but he's here now. I am trying hard not to judge him because he hasn't had the best of starts YET . I think given new owners he might even be gone quicker than we think. At the end of the day he should be judged the same as our previous managers - how successful he is and how we play.

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TBH I couldn't give a fuck what you think and I'm certainly not trying to convince you to agree with my comment. I wa sactually discussing the OP's post that he expected Hodgson to do better than Rafa's first season when I think by and large most people agree he will do well to get fourth given the shit the club's currently in.

 

Just as well you weren't trying to convince me - because what you said was shite. Dennis tooth said:

 

Thing is, his worst was bad but his best he got us to two CL finals, a few quarters, winning one and an FA cup got us our highest premier points total and 2nd place. Take those away and maybe we'd have got rid of him a lot earlier.

The real question is can Roy match a single one of those acheivements at his best? (In my mind he should better it in all fairness?)

 

You replied:

 

Why? Why? Why?. he's got even less money than Rafa had for a start. Yesterday's performance was nothing to write home about but I've seen a lot worse under previous managers. I tens to side with section earlier post here. The amount of forumites who actually want to see Hodgeson fail to prove a point is quite sad.

 

No mention of his first post at all in your reply. YOU brought money into the equation - not him.

 

Like I said, try to stick to a single argument and stop moving the goalposts. That way you may be able to convince someone of your argument.

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