How can I be optimistic after that?

[mypost]

Kenny First 2 Away Games: 1 Point

Souness First 2 Away Games: 0 Points

Evans First 2 Away Games: 1 Point

Benitez First 2 Away Games: 1 Point

Hodgson First 2 Away Games: 1 Point

 

There may be a clear pattern there, but some fans still can't resist a gloat. :whatever:

[Kennys_spell]

Quite easily actually.

 

But not really - in fact ONLY when you apply loads of "If only..." "But he didn't....."and "When we...."

 

We're no worse off than we were under Rafa, in fact we're a hell of a lot better off if you look at it honestly[?QUOTE] WHAT?!?!?! Are you joking? Give me some examples of where we are "A Lot better off" please.

 

Konchesky was the best outfield player today

With performances like those put in by Johnson, Gerrard, Torres, Lucas and in particular the dross served up by Poulson it wasn't a very difficult thing to do. Being OK in a game against Birmingham doesn't represent someone who can be "very good for us" in my eyes - obviously some people are very easily pleased.

 

Cole hasn't been given a chance yet so it's unfair to judge him or Roy and he's at least the kind of creative player we need.

I Still have an open mind about him.

 

Meireles is a quality player and in 15 minutes completely changed the way we played. Roy didn't want to rush him in and given he knows more about his condition.

Then why didn't he play from the start - what 'condition' are you talking about here?

 

As Roy himself said it's just a question of treading water at the moment. Today wasn't near good enough but there's no doubt in my mind we will improve.

Seems to me to be a little bit silly to pay a total of (approx) £8 Mill to change managers and get no change.

 

I've got this mad idea for all the knee jerks on here. Breathe, give it a few months and then START to judge him.

 

How long are we to give him before pointing out things that are clearly not good enough for Liverpool FC?

[Kennys_spell]

They weren't, as has been said time and time again it was the fact they played in a team that was so good and they understood their role that made them great players, not the fact they were the most complete players in the world.

 

It is very positive that he has come in and slotted in so well and put in a good performance today in a hard debut game. All the things we've lacked at LB for a long time he provided today. He got forward smartly, he defended well and he brought others into the play. Very Finnan-esque for me and that will do me nicely if he continues to play like that and steadily improves.

 

You're a fucking nutcase pal - are you old enough to have actually seen Thompson and Neal play?

 

Those comments of yours are like a fuckin whino blurting out shite against the world!

[Best Believe It]

I'm hopeful that when Raul and Cole are bedded into the side we'll be a lot more expansive in an attacking sense. Also, Raul should be able to help us play quicker, one-touch football. However, I do feel it might take us a while to get our shape together. If we presume Raul and Poulson are our midfield two, with Gerrard off Torres, then who do we have as the other two attackers? Cole and Kuyt?

 

I'd like to see Patches start on thursday.

[Guest ian garro]

are you old enough to have actually seen Thompson and Neal play?

 

Was just thinking that. Neal was one of - if not the - greatest full-backs to ever play for us.

[MLB]

The only thing to be optimistic about is that it's hard to imagine us playing much worse. I just hope Roy lets the players off the leash a bit and we start attacking teams because it took us 70 minutes to manage that yesterday. We have quality players but they look set up to contain teams rather than beat them (ring any bells?). People aren't showing for the ball, there is no real pace or movement, it's just not good enough. To be honest, I think we would have been better off having N'Gog up front yesterday.

[Timão]

5 points from 4 games is just about average for Roy Hodgson, the real problem for me is I cant remember when a LFC team played this badly for 4 league games on the trot and not even under Souness and it never happened under Rafa

 

I totally agree that we are terrible at the moment, but Souness?

 

We were DREADFUL under Souness pretty much from 1991 to 1994. Seriously, Souness, under far more favourable circumstances than either Rafa or certainly Hodgson have had, produced some of the most dire, clueless football I have ever had the misfuortune to watch.

 

Frankly, when was the last time a Liverpool team at least TRIED to play football 'the right way' consistently?

 

There were spells in 2008/09 (basically the last 2 months of the season) but other than that we have become, at best, a functional team. When results are going well playing this way (Houllier 2000/01, Rafa) people accept it because 'results matter'. But that is it.

 

The last team to try and play football the right way consistently was Evans' team 1995-97. Ever since he blew the league in 1997 we have been indoctrinated, the whole culture of our play has changed ever since.

 

I have no expectations for this season at all. I think we will finish somewhere in the top 10, that is it. Hodgson is a caretaker manager, there until we get new owners or, rather, unless we get new owners.

 

Nothing will change, we will get soundly beaten next week. Just live with it, it is better that way.

 

But no comparisson to Souness, please...great player, but the worst manager (and human being) we have had in charge in modern times.

[Gary Mac Legend]

People quoting our previous draws with Brum are being ignorant or naive. In those previous draws, we've generally dominated possession, created plenty of chances but haven't been clinical enough. Yesterday, we were played off the park, they were disappointed with the draw, we were lucky to escape with it. That's the 4th game in a row this season we've been outplayed. It's worrying beyond belief, we have the scum at OT next weekend.

[Guest the boy]

Rafa always played football on the floor. He never experimented with the 'boot it long, knock it down' strategy which played to Houllier's strengths. Crouch may be a giant, but his strengths are and always have have been with the ball at his feet on the ground. At the fulcrum of Benitez' teams, last season aside, have always been tight finesse players. Aimar; Alonso. What our sides under Benitez were forever hamstrung by was lack of quality and pace in the out-wide positions. Very harsh to lump him in with Houllier and, to form so far, Hodgson.

[Timão]

Rafa always played football on the floor. He never experimented with the 'boot it long, knock it down' strategy which played to Houllier's strengths. Crouch may be a giant, but his strengths are and always have have been with the ball at his feet on the ground. At the fulcrum of Benitez' teams, last season aside, have always been tight finesse players. Aimar; Alonso. What our sides under Benitez were forever hamstrung by was lack of quality and pace in the out-wide positions. Very harsh to lump him in with Houllier and, to form so far, Hodgson.

 

Rafa's approach to games was, for me, all wrong at times. He played it on the floor more than we are doing right now, true, but not with any particular attacking intent. He was a minimalist, at times a very good one, but we rarely 'went for it'. Away from home, in particular, we were less than pretty.

 

2004/05 was terrible in the league, for instance, and I distinctly remember playing one up front away to Derby County, trying to defend a 1-0 lead.

 

All water under the bridge, my general point is that I have not seen a Liverpool team set up basically as an attacking team - as opposed to a tight team - for more than 10 years.

 

Is Benitez in general a better manager than Houllier or Hodgson? Of course he is, no argument there.

[dennis tooth]

I totally agree that we are terrible at the moment, but Souness?

 

We were DREADFUL under Souness pretty much from 1991 to 1994. Seriously, Souness, under far more favourable circumstances than either Rafa or certainly Hodgson have had, produced some of the most dire, clueless football I have ever had the misfuortune to watch.

 

Frankly, when was the last time a Liverpool team at least TRIED to play football 'the right way' consistently?

 

There were spells in 2008/09 (basically the last 2 months of the season) but other than that we have become, at best, a functional team. When results are going well playing this way (Houllier 2000/01, Rafa) people accept it because 'results matter'. But that is it.

 

The last team to try and play football the right way consistently was Evans' team 1995-97. Ever since he blew the league in 1997 we have been indoctrinated, the whole culture of our play has changed ever since.

 

I have no expectations for this season at all. I think we will finish somewhere in the top 10, that is it. Hodgson is a caretaker manager, there until we get new owners or, rather, unless we get new owners.

 

Nothing will change, we will get soundly beaten next week. Just live with it, it is better that way.

 

But no comparisson to Souness, please...great player, but the worst manager (and human being) we have had in charge in modern times.

 

Good post. Carra was right Souness did more damage than Fergimp ever could. The one chink was winning an FA Cup, something Roy has never dreamed of doing. Roy is more likeable and his teams play marginally better footy though, we really are sifting through turds for bits of silver here though.

[vanishingpoint]

That wouldn't have got into the top 50 of Rafa's worst performances.

 

"Rafa's 50 worst performances" eh?

 

Funny, because I was struggling to remember ANYTHING worse than that first-half since perhaps the sorry days of Houllier's waning tenureship- that was until I remembered City three weeks ago.

Edited September 13, 2010 by vanishingpoint

[vanishingpoint]

People quoting our previous draws with Brum are being ignorant or naive. In those previous draws, we've generally dominated possession, created plenty of chances but haven't been clinical enough. Yesterday, we were played off the park, they were disappointed with the draw, we were lucky to escape with it.

 

Post.

[dennis tooth]

Rafa always played football on the floor. He never experimented with the 'boot it long, knock it down' strategy which played to Houllier's strengths. Crouch may be a giant, but his strengths are and always have have been with the ball at his feet on the ground. At the fulcrum of Benitez' teams, last season aside, have always been tight finesse players. Aimar; Alonso. What our sides under Benitez were forever hamstrung by was lack of quality and pace in the out-wide positions. Very harsh to lump him in with Houllier and, to form so far, Hodgson.

 

What we lacked yesterday and clearly not only the loss of Alonso is a 'between the lines' type player, eg Luis. Even with one though it's clear Roy would either not think of that or not play that type of player anyway.

We set up for a draw and the manager was content with what he saw, Roy was never going to change much, it just looked to me as if we were waiting to go 1-0 down but with Reina it never came to that. Mereles contribution has been hyped to fuck, all he did was run round a bit and try to get forward, he seems a decent player but people will seize onto anything given how flat we were and have been all season without someone alongside Torres or someone between the lines with the central spine we had the conclusion is that we came for a draw like some non league no hoper in an FA cup tie against a giant.

It's very early and it's just one game and while I never said Roy being successful here (By our standards not Fulhams, Birminghams or FK Gwar Nadal Viking's) was impossibe I just think it's highly muthafucking improbable.

[Eljeficito]

was happy with Raul's 15 minutes. Other than that we may really have our hands full with the blueshite in the battle for 7th. But...

 

Pepe Reina should be given the key to the city

[vanishingpoint]

Wasn't there a spell as recent as last season when we lost 8 out of 11 games from October to December

 

Erm...weren't a number of those pretty meaningless cup games, and also weren't key squad members (first among them, Gerrard and Torres) crocked?

 

It's always an idea to compare like-with-like when trying to construct a convincing argument, sunshine.

Edited September 13, 2010 by vanishingpoint

[vanishingpoint]

What will Roy consider an acceptable result?

 

Not being blanked by Ferguson and a glass of cava afterwards.

 

Chuckle.

[vanishingpoint]

What he says to sky bloody sports means nowt. I've a feeling people are just reading into it looking for holes to pick.

 

Nah, no time to do that when your work's cut out just attempting to cover the ineptness of the actual fucking performances.

[punkhunter]

Overall poor performance. We could have conceded 3 goals easily in the 1st half. Defending from crosses was woeful, and as usual we were devoid of width, pace and flair. Every time we go on the attack it seems we are one paced and predictable. And playing 2 holding midfielders in Lucas and Poulsen is just about as negative as it can get. Nando looks like he is carrying the world on his shoulders, and no wonder.....he is literally the only credible striker we have at the club.

 

On a brighter note, Raul looked impressive when he came on and we are getting ever closer to October 6th!

[zico]

I agree WrongIslander - I think our team was missing ALL creative thrust from the middle of the park with Gerrard upfront as an Emergency, Meireles benched and Cole Banned (STILL - How long ago was he Red-Carded Now?). When Meireles came on and pushed up to Gerrard's Old Position, Gerrard took up Alonso's old role? We were a different matter entirely and the prospect of Gerrard and Meireles in tandem in the middle with Cole behind Torres? Could see us go up another level AGAIN in attacking ability. We shall see.............

 

As to the rest? I'm GLAD we "Gritted it out" as it were today - Why? Well, it was the FULLY welcome return of a quality almost entirely absent Last Season for Away Games (and at City to). That quality? Was fight/spirit - call it what you will. I agree with Ngog we Trust that last year we were Far worse at Portsmouth but that was just ONE game - It was endemic throughout the WHOLE season last year - a disease that began on Day One at White Hart Lane and persisted Right through to the disgraceful showing at Hull on the Final Day - We gave some absolute Shockers of performances on Away days last season - often with nearly HALF the team "phoning in" their showings as it were - But most of all? We just Didn't FIGHT for it on FAR to many occassions - We didn't want it enough;

 

To often last season, we either surrendered (as at City) or battled for a bit as today and then just collapsed when things went wrong (as at Pompey) but Portsmouth was just one such display - Add to that List? Sunderland, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Lille, Benfica, Atletico Madrid, Fiorentina (THE worst of the lot - THAT game began the chaos IMO), Debrecen, Everton, Blackburn, Wolves and Reading to the list of games across All competitions away from home that we played Utterly gutlessly/lacking in guile/with NO fight at all in. And I Know we won/drew a couple of them but THAT was more through luck than judgement as our general standard of play in ALL those games? ranged everywhere from non-existent to diabolically bad but Nowhere was it good.

 

At least today? We TRIED to establish a pattern of play late on with Meireles on and Gerrard back a bit and we FOUGHT for the right to play in the middle. Nothing LIKE the gutless surrender at City or any of the Dismal Collapses listed above and more Reminiscent IMO of 2005-2006's early period where we were seen as awful to by the media, Footy fans and the world at large after drawing 0 - 0 with Spurs and Boro', 2-2 with Brum' Beating Sunderland and Blackburn 1 - 0 each and getting utterly Spanked 1 -4 by Chelsea in our first 8 or so games. We weren't that different at the start of THAT year to this (other than the small matter of being European Champions!!!) and then? The new players began to fit in, the Banned player (Crouch in that case) clicked along with the whole team and? We won our next TEN league games in a row without conceding a goal for the first 8 of those. I'm not saying we'll do the same now but? It just goes to show what happens if you give the manager TIME to work his magic with the team...............................

 

PS If you thought that start to 2005-2006 sounded bad? What of Rafa's FIRST season with defeats to Man U, Bolton, Brum' and Chelsea in the first 10 or so matches, along with a defeat in Greece every BIT as bad as the Fiorentina disaster at the Stade Aretemio Franchi which IMO? Kicked off this utterly Awful and destabilising (year-long now) series of Results ON the pitch for the Club. In the end? Well put it this way, I don't think that man Rafa' from a shockingly bad time back then results-wise did to badly for us in the end though no?

 

Bottom Line? Give Roy Time!!!! He needs more than a little with the shambles he's inherited and even more to shape HIS team and way of playing - Probably a year at Least to get us stable again and fighting for results? Is the way ALL successful teams begin recoveries from disasters like the year We have just had. It's a long, Long road back to where we WERE only 16 short months ago in May 2009 but? At least we have now taken the first step - The FIGHT alone today from our side told me that if nothing else..................

 

PPS VERY glad to see Reina back to form as well - HE saved us a point today, make no mistake - Might go Some way to making up for the 2 he threw away against Arsenal and? Let's hope he got ALL his season's worth of errors out of the way with his National Side mid-week. Something tells me we might need him on-song this year..........

 

I hope that happens, but I do think that woy's approach is more like Rafa's (Lucas and Masch), only now with the inferior duo of Lucas and Poulsen.....

 

If we start any of the next 5 games with Gerrard and Meireles in central midfield I will be shocked.... That would mean we show some attacking intent? Can't have that....

[WrongIslander]

I hope that happens, but I do think that woy's approach is more like Rafa's (Lucas and Masch), only now with the inferior duo of Lucas and Poulsen.....

 

If we start any of the next 5 games with Gerrard and Meireles in central midfield I will be shocked.... That would mean we show some attacking intent? Can't have that....

 

Yeah Meireles was clearly bought as a back up...

[Paco]

Woy started with Poulsen and Lucas.................

 

They're not good in the air, they're not strong enough, I see no reason to play them against any team really.

 

He should have started with Meireles, ok so he is new and maybe a bit risky or whatever excuse you want to make for the manager. But still, he could have started with Gerrard in midfield together with Poulsen or Lucas, dont really care who and played pacheco, babel or Ngog instead of one of our midfield duo of muppets.

 

Criticism well deserved in my opinion.

 

Expect us to play Torres-Cole-Meireles-Poulsen-Maxi-Gerrard against the mancs, which will be a completely different team going forward. If he sticks to Lucas and Poulsen there is no excuse

 

I don't think he had any choice than to start with Lucas and Poulsen. he clearly didn't think meireles was ready so it wasn't a huge surprise. if it had've been at home he may have started him.

 

The sooner the lad starts the better because we aren't getting the ball to Gerrard and Torres quick enough at the minute.

 

also where is he gonna play? is he gonna be off torres or is cole gonna play there. I think he looked good off Torres when he came on. I think on sunday I'd go with a front 6 of:

 

-----------------Poulsen----------Gerrard--------------------

 

 

Cole----------------------Meireles------------------Jovanovic

 

 

--------------------------Torres-----------------------------

[WrongIslander]

Swop Jovi for Babel and I agree.

[VladimirIlyich]

Although we were slightly behind in possession yesterday,53% to 47% for Birmingham,we actually had 8 shots on target to their 3.

 

And McLeish was made up with Birminghams negative second half performance too.

 

I thought a home side was supposed to try to win?

[Redexile]

Thing is, his worst was bad but his best he got us to two CL finals, a few quarters, winning one and an FA cup got us our highest premier points total and 2nd place. Take those away and maybe we'd have got rid of him a lot earlier.

The real question is can Roy match a single one of those acheivements at his best? (In my mind he should better it in all fairness?)[/QUOTE]

 

Why? Why? Why?. he's got even less money than Rafa had for a start. Yesterday's performance was nothing to write home about but I've seen a lot worse under previous managers. I tens to side with section earlier post here. The amount of forumites who actually want to see Hodgeson fail to prove a point is quite sad.