Hodgeson hate

[Dicko]

It's far too early for all this shite.

 

Some of the posts on here and other places are vindictive, there's almost a tangible glee about Monday's result.

Maybe they're the same people who came out of Wigan in March, or the Pompey disgrace, or any number of debacles last season, shrugged and went "well, shit happens sometimes", maybe they're not, but we can take a decent guess.

 

Now we've got people pretending we never lost in an embarrassing way under Rafa. Bollocks.

 

I can't think of one person who wasn't more than pissed off at them results.

Or even worse resigned to them.

I think a lot of the bitterness stems from the fact that we had it rammed down our throats that we could attract anyone. Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating and we couldn't apart from Pellegrini (my choice) so we ended up with Hodgson, a man who frankly has no business being at Liverpool. It was a purely populist choice, although who it was populist with is open to debate, I'm thinking more Henry Winter than the average Liverpool fan.

 

Still it was definitely the worst away performance in 40 years.:whistle:

[JMARKH]

Maybe now some of the Rafa haters will finally see the benefit of what he did, and what he was doing with our club.

 

Under immense scrutiny, hatred and a hint of racism from the media, the board and a section of clueless supporters, Rafa continually made us a difficult team to beat. Despite the net spend being ridiculously low for the last 3 years, for a club of Liverpool's stature, he was placed under incredible pressure to bring Liverpool a Premier League title - at a time when clubs like Villa, Spurs, City and even Sunderland were vastly outspending us.

 

The blame was put squarely on Rafa's head.

 

HOW IDIOTIC.

 

Rafa Benitez is a personal hero if mine, having giving me one of the best nights of my life in Istanbul. Even when we were getting beat or looked down and out in ANY match after that night, a Benitez team always filled me with HOPE and BELIEF. Under Rafa - anything was possible.

 

So...what does the board do? They continually undermined him throughout their ill fated reign, not allowing him to concentrate on footballing matters.

 

Then...a man who was brought in soley to find 'investment' - a certain Mr Purslow finds it in himself to sack one of the best managers in Europe over personal differences and 1 bad season in 6 years. What gives him the right to do so. Nothing, the man is a stooge. Just like Ayre, just like Broughton.

 

A stooge indeed...which brings me on to the next in a long line of stooges to grace us since the Americans took over...Roy Hodgson. Nice guy though he is, Roy Hodgson is nothing but a patsy and a yes man to this regime. At Liverpool we always support the manager, but I cannot and will not support a man who has been brought in by two cancers and their boardroom tumours.

 

Hodgson is an avergae journeyman manager with no hint that he is good enough to manage Liverpool Football Club. Two failed UEFA Cup finals do not make a good manager, no matter how nice he is or how good Sky Sports tell us he is. Look at last night - 4-4-2. 4-4-2!?!? What was he thinking - totally crazy. If he continues with this, we will be down there...no matter how much we win against WBA in the next game. The signings of Poulsen and Brad Jones further emphasise the lack of quality the manager brings - these players are Fulham signings at best. Letting Aquilani go is another major lapse in judgement. We have become a joke, something we never were under Rafa, despite the media telling us we were because he didn't like to play their little games.

 

Sadly, Hodgson is here to stay, and until the owners have gone, so are the poor results and mediocre signings. But of course, it's not Hodgson's fault, it's all Rafa's - zonal marking? Still conceded from a corner last night, didn't we? Taking Torres off? Yep, Rafa's fault? Losing 3-0 against Man City - would never happen under Rafa. EVER.[/QUOTE]

 

Like losing 6 - 3 at home to Arsenal reserves and 3 - 0 to Everton? pathetic results in comparison to the City one. Rafa was a failure in the league and whether Roy does bad or good Benitez deserved to be sacked, and the more the cry babies whinge about it then the more glad I am that he was sacked because last year was a fuckin disgrace.

[Whelan]

As is your flat out refusal to accept that two games does not equate to 6 years in any way, shape or form.

 

Our away records in the first 4-5 months of the previous 4 managers are horrendous, they've always used home form as a foundation on which to build up some momentum further down the line. I think Rafa had 4 away wins all season in 04/05, plus Deportivo Leverkusen and Millwall Watford in the cups?

 

Humiliation was not a rarity, despite respectable scorelines; Burnley was 0-1 remember. The Southampton game after it was arguably the worst I've ever seen Liverpool play, and the Brum one shortly after it not much better. I can recall Hansen's call of "worst Liverpool team for 40 years" being (100% correctly) denounced by Reds for hysterical claptrap.

 

Criticism of Monday is perfectly acceptable, I've done it myself. The hand-rubbing and 'confirmation' of Hodgson's so-called uselessness is not.

 

As you will see, if you bothered your arse to read what I said, rather than assume (Another trait of of 'your lot') you will see I have not criticised Roy in any way shape or form!

 

I have criticised monday night, but not Roy. Read the thread!

 

So, less of that shite please. Otherwise I might have to start accusing you of the same falsehoods that you so obviously dislike.

[goatboy59]

You have been more than spirited in defending the rights of others to mouth off about the manager after two games, citing it as karma for others criticism of Rafa over a far longer period.

 

Unknot your knickers.

 

Your lot, ha!

[zigackly]

I think a lot of the bitterness stems from the fact that we had it rammed down our throats that we could attract anyone. Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating and we couldn't apart from Pellegrini (my choice) so we ended up with Hodgson, a man who frankly has no business being at Liverpool. It was a purely populist choice, although who it was populist with is open to debate, I'm thinking more Henry Winter than the average Liverpool fan.

 

Just out of interest Dicko, how many candidates do you honestly think we approached outside of Hodgson? I get the strong feeling he was the only name under consideration from Purslow and that Pellegrini was a case of an attempted last minute intervention from Kenny which was ignored. Clearly after coming seventh and with the job only ever likely to be a temporary one with the club up for sale, no top manager was going to leave their current job for us, but I can't help wondering how widely the net was really cast.

 

Obviously I had completely lost faith in Rafa and thought we needed a change. I still think that. I didn't see one single indication last season that he knew how to turn our form and morale around, but there was (and still is) a chance that a new man could.

 

I didn't want Hodgson, but now we have him he must be given time or it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Whelan]

Hodgson is not absolved of any blame last night! He was at fault, and nagging doubts were not waylayed.

 

But, put it into context! It was City away, City who have spent 250 million whose expectations seem to be less than ours!

 

Roy should get this team challenging, and I am refusing to give him the leeway to meander through the season with midtable expectations. But he should be our manager for the next three seasons.

 

Supporting your team does not mean ignoring failings, and any constructive criticism should be welcomed, it is the petulant shite that should be fucked off.

 

For instance!

 

I couldn't be more clearer really, there are no parameters, simply a feeling that he might not be able to deliver what his main objective is i.e. win the league!

 

Finishing outside the top four after three years is a decent suggestion that he cannot do that job.

 

If we finish 5th this season, and win a trophy he gets another season, if next year we finish just outside the top four but again win a trophy, he gets another season, the followin season again we finish 5th without a dent then clearly he needs to go.

 

If you want to win the league without spending big money, then you need patience and a long term goal.

 

Arsenal have been twatted by City twice in the past two seasons at the Emirates, City will do that to a few top teams this season.

 

This time yesterday, everything was ticketyboo, morale was up, Hodgson was a steadying influence, one defeat and moral is down, the club is fucked, Hodgson is out of his depth, it is fucking pathetic.

 

You are fucking grown men acting like pubescent teenage girls, want, want, want, want!

 

You have been more than spirited in defending the rights of others to mouth off about the manager after two games, citing it as karma for others criticism of Rafa over a far longer period.

 

Unknot your knickers.

 

Your lot, ha!

 

Yeah, you are right!

 

Been overly critical of Roy and as you can clearly see, I have been guilty of defending the rights of the fans to jump on him and slag the manager cos he ain't Rafa!

 

Sorry but, 'You lot' have been screaming like bitches for the past two years, and now you want to stick a natty sweater on and sing 'We are the World', well tough shit, maybe the problem isn't Roy, Rafa, the Owners, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres, Suso, Bable or Agger maybe the problem is the petulant shower of pricks that we have following this team who are now crying foul becuase, nobody wants to listen to them lecture about being a fan.

 

Stu Monty is right, those who turned on Rafa first will be the first to turn on Roy, and that is what is so funny when you read them proclaiming Unity and Support now!

 

And your fanzine was shit, so neurgh!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wasn't, but I want to get into the spirit of the coming years, where everything must be black and white!

[goatboy59]

Got me bang to rights there, it was!

 

Think the problem is that you and I are talking about that lot and that lot, so much so that it is becoming like 'us' and 'them'. We're not part of either side.

 

I don't wear sweaters, natty or otherwise. I do know however that 2 games is not 6 seasons. I had to pass my eleven plus to become that good at mathematics.

 

I am always happily chilled about any new manager's status for about 6 months or even a year, as it simply isn't fair to expect him to wave a magic wand and cure all the ills that were there (otherwise he wouldn't have got the job in the first place). Unless it becomes absolutely dire and dangerous to our existence in the top flight, in which case a change would have to be discussed at least.

 

If others want to start shrieking so soon like little girls (NOT YOU OKAY!!!!) that's up to them, but it doesn't stop them being complete cocks for doing so.

[Kevin D]

There's more to it than a simple Rafa vs. Roy thing though. Benitez had a very distinct philosophy, that a lot of people bought into, it was modern and cerebral. There's a lot of people that are willing to let Rafa go, but they won't let the philosophy go. And certainly not for a good old fashioned 442, get stuck in lads. Benitez's way was different to what were people were used to, so once assimilated, its no great surprise that people see everything through that prism. That's not supporting Rafa over Roy, it's just how people are conditioned to see things now. If Hodgson wins games, the prism will rotate a bit and we'll see it all a bit differently.

 

To put it all down some deliberately divisive motivation is to miss a significant point and to be, ultimately, divisive (not saying you are, but there is that sense around the interweb).

 

Very good point. I think it's also responsible for some of the contempt, at times sneering, the lesser, and usually British, managers get on here.

 

TBH I don't fear it, I hope for it. It's a horrible cliche but I'm all for "steadying the ship" and a measured evolution. Stop fucking with tactics that the players aren't used to; or positions they need to adapt to; get them focused, motivated and gently transition them from what they've been doing day in day out for 6 years to where he wants them to be.

 

There's too much at stake to have Joe Cole learning the #10 role on the job, or to mess with N'Gog by spending three years training him into a clone of TOrres and then asking him to play alongside him!

 

Obviously it be silly to generalise, as one mans version of something is not the same as anothers, but the regression to conservative/defensive football ultimately destroyed our season. It happened in Houllier's last season, too. The manager retreats into a safety first philosophy - which always starts out as " steadying the ship" because of a few goals being conceded - and becomes unable/unwilling to fathom or adopt more attacking football.

 

We were at our most effective in the past twenty years towards the end of the 08/09 season - had Mascherano been fit for the CL first leg and had we not pawed at Hull etc, we'd have been looking at an incredible season - which is the blueprint for how any manager should try and set us up. I do wonder if you've already clocked that Hodgson isn't that type of manager and have tailored your hopes accordingly?

 

We're agreed on the last paragraph.

[Best Believe It]

I don't get the Rafa vs Roy comparison; I supported Rafa as manager and I support Roy. My misgivings about Roy have nothing to do with the former manager.

 

I like the Hodge - he's a decent intelligent human being who has a great deal of experience. However, I do worry about the following things:

 

I see him as a regressive traditionalist, rather than a progressive, expansive manager that I think any top club needs. Evidence of this would be his use of 442, a formation I feel to be too rigid and too tactically outdated.

 

He's been employed with a steady the ship mandate, which means he has accepted he's going to be screwed around by the owners.

 

However, I do think he's a very good man manager and, seeing as we're going to have morale problems until we change owners at the very least, that's hugely important.

[Dicko]

Just out of interest Dicko, how many candidates do you honestly think we approached outside of Hodgson? I get the strong feeling he was the only name under consideration from Purslow and that Pellegrini was a case of an attempted last minute intervention from Kenny which was ignored. Clearly after coming seventh and with the job only ever likely to be a temporary one with the club up for sale, no top manager was going to leave their current job for us, but I can't help wondering how widely the net was really cast.

 

Obviously I had completely lost faith in Rafa and thought we needed a change. I still think that. I didn't see one single indication last season that he knew how to turn our form and morale around, but there was (and still is) a chance that a new man could.

 

I didn't want Hodgson, but now we have him he must be given time or it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

I think Hodgson was always Purslow's number one choice.

 

As for who else they approached, well Kenny had a meeting with Pellegrini at Heathrow. And when the fears of England crashing out in the group stages and the very real possibility of England sacking Capello, that apparently spooked Cecil enough to make enquiries to Marseille about Deschamps and Galatasaray for Rijkaard.

 

Of course Hodgson should be given time I'm just not convinced that he'll ever be good enough, but rather than bang on about how poor a choice he is I'd rather say nothing, hence why I haven't been posting much.

 

But the worst thing about the whole decision process apart from Broughton humiliating Kenny was the fact that it was such a blatantly populist decision. If Hodgson had not guided Fulham to the Europa League final he wouldn't have been near this job. It all has a faint stench of Newcastle if you ask me. And if there's one thing those Geordie blerts are experts in it's how not to appoint managers.

[zigackly]

I see him as a regressive traditionalist, rather than a progressive, expansive manager that I think any top club needs. Evidence of this would be his use of 442, a formation I feel to be too rigid and too tactically outdated.

 

He's used it once in four games after two players he wanted to select in midfield were unavailable. Benitez used it on occasion too.

 

Repeat after me: TOO. EARLY. TO. SAY.

[Best Believe It]

He's used it once in four games after two players he wanted to select in midfield were unavailable. Benitez used it on occasion too.

 

I meant at Fulham and previously. I'm not judging whether he is a success or not, just explaining my misgivings.

[zigackly]

I meant at Fulham and previously. I'm not judging whether he is a success or not, just explaining my misgivings.

 

That's fair enough I suppose, but I think he's wily enough not to come in with a completely new broom and the evidence seems to point that way. I have noticed an element of people waiting until the one game he uses a 4-4-2 and then using it as a stick to beat him with.

 

My personal preference on Monday night would have been to use Maxi behind Torres instead of Ngog alongside him, but we are kidding ourselves if we think the result would have been different, as City were in the mood and we simply were not.

 

Our team just went through an entire season with their heads down. What makes people think that ANY manager would just wave a magic wand and it would all be better? I would not expect a vast improvement before Christmas, but maybe we will be able to do enough in the latter half of the season to scrape into the top four as we really should have done last season when it was there on a plate for us.

[BatChainPuller]

Hodgson is going to be faced with the same problems Benitez was. He will come up short like Benitez did. No manager will succeed at Liverpool, especially in its current state. Sacking Benitez was ridiculous for that reason alone.

 

Hodgson doesn't stand a chance. It's not his fault either. I fear the fans will turn on him very quickly and it will be very messy. Much more so than it was with Rafa. Benitez took all sorts of stick, but that was largely tempered by a begruding respect for what he'd achieved. Hodgson doesn't have that luxury. Good luck, Roy, and take out the flack jacket, the bullets are already flying.

 

Agree with all that, out of rep unfortunately.

[goatboy59]

But the worst thing about the whole decision process apart from Broughton humiliating Kenny was the fact that it was such a blatantly populist decision.

 

Populist decision was Kenny, surely?

[zigackly]

No manager will succeed at Liverpool, especially in its current state.

 

I can accept this by the way, but it's incredibly important not to fail (by which I mean slipping out of contention for the top four).

 

Hence why I don't agree with this part:

 

Sacking Benitez was ridiculous for that reason alone.

 

It wasn't ridiculous at all. The team's morale and form had absolutely imploded to the point where last season bears serious comparison with any of the bad seasons we've seen since we last won the title.

 

If I thought for a minute Rafa could have turned it around then I would have gritted my teeth and backed him staying here but he showed no signs whatsoever of a revival when he had his squad fit, and his dissatisfaction had become one of the insidious poisons at the club.

[William_Ulsterman]

from 90% of you its the typical knee jerk reaction, its so fucking predictble. I liked Rafa he served the club well but was glad to see him go as his tactics, team choice and substitutions were abysmal last season reflected in our position in the league so thats not in dispute (regardless of the ownership situation).

 

I equally like Roy but for fuck sake give the man a chance, your blind if you cant see the odds were stacked against him last week especially when one of key player refuses to pull on the shirt. We are playing them at home as a weakened side and do i have to point out they had 80 million on the bench alone?.

 

So FUCK Mascherano, and FUCK all the Haters out there. I'm off back to the MF as your stinking this place out.

[smilezzz]

Populist decision was Kenny, surely?

 

nope, Kenny was popular with the fans, Roy was popular with what was more important... the media

[lifetime fan]

Surely people hate Roy as manager of our club rather than hating the guy himself?

[JaminKibbler]

It all feels abit too depressing to be a liverpool fan.

[KopOut]

Before he arrived I said he was an average manager, who would only produce average results with an average team. I stand by the statement. His appointment was typical of an administration that continually seeks to fragment this great club, pitting fan against fan and only adding to the overwhelming feeling of frustration and anger that has been the undercurrent since the beginning of the American tenure.

 

I wanted Kenny at the helm and I'm not ashamed to say it. Whatever chance of unity, hope and excitement toward the new season I felt was dashed when the club snubbed him and refused his offer.

 

As for Joe Cole, it's been suggested that his 'luck' will improve.

 

It wasn't bad luck that he missed a penalty, it was poor skill. it wasn't bad luck that he got caught speeding: it was poor judgement behind the wheel and it wasn't bad luck that he got sent off: it was a bad tackle. I wouldn't ecpect much more from a has-been on a freebie.

[zigackly]

Surely people hate Roy as manager of our club rather than hating the guy himself?

 

Those people should ask themselves what they expect to get out of a public show of unhappiness at this early stage in his career. Surely very few of us wanted him here?

[goatboy59]

nope, Kenny was popular with the fans, Roy was popular with what was more important... the media

 

We'll see how long that lasts.

 

In terms of smokescreens and getting away with bad results and dodgy transfer budgets, I would have said appointing Kenny was the perfect one for that.

 

Kenny's kudos with Reds vs Hodgson's kudos with media. Seriously, which do you think will last the longest if we were getting battered every week?

[TheStigIsOurs]

some fair comments, some stupid comments, some shite spelling and certainly some controversial comments but surely amongst all this tosh, the most important question is this:

 

would you shag Miley Cirus?

[goatboy59]

It wasn't bad luck that he missed a penalty, it was poor skill. it wasn't bad luck that he got caught speeding: it was poor judgement behind the wheel and it wasn't bad luck that he got sent off: it was a bad tackle. I wouldn't ecpect much more from a has-been on a freebie.

 

Three things that have happened to Steven Gerrard, surely?

 

The clutching at straws on here is fucking pathetic.