England's "Golden Generation"

[danperkins]

Just look at the original 30 man Spanish squad.

 

Every single player would get into the England first XI.

 

There are Spanish midfielders in La Segunda who would have made our squad.

I agree they have some exceptional talent, on paper their team is magnificent

[Il Fenomeno]

True enuf but to a much lesser extent, take Barca for example, Xabi,Iniesta,Villa,Pedro,Puyol,Pique all Spanish hard to pick 6 English players any where near as good as them from any Premier League team. Premier League is very ordinary without the class and guile of the foreign contingent

 

ManUtd would still have Rooney, we would still have Gerrard, Chelsea would still have Lampard

 

Barca would lose Messi & Real Madrid would lose Ronaldo, there's not much difference there.

 

The 3 English clubs would still have their best player, La Liga wouldn't.

[Guest PurpleNose]

ManUtd would still have Rooney, we would still have Gerrard, Chelsea would still have Lampard

 

Barca would lose Messi & Real Madrid would lose Ronaldo, there's not much difference there.

 

The 3 English clubs would still have their best player, La Liga wouldn't.

 

Picking out individuals doesn't paint a very representative picture of the leagues.

 

Anyway, our best player is Spanish.

 

Take out every single foreign player.

 

Barcelona still have - Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Villa, Iniesta, Bojan, Busquets and Pedro.

 

Real Madrid still have - Casillas, Arbeloa, Ramos, Raul, Guti, Albiol, Alonso and Granero.

[TheResonator]

Spain's squad is so good they talk about Torres like he's their Heskey.

 

Part of the problem with the England team is that the movement, intelligence and creativity of our players going forward is atrocious. We're so reliant on creativity and flair coming from foreign players. And it's partly because when you're a young kid and you play here skill is just bred out of you. You get absolutely crucified if you try to take a man on and lose the ball, and the players that get through to the top level are, almost without exception, the ones who have an early growth spurt and are strong and athletic from an early age.

 

That is completely evident in our national team along with the style of play in this country: very physical and very workmanlike. Even playing Sunday league you'll come up against players who clearly have a huge amount of natural ability who've never fucking made it anywhere because they weren't big enough when it mattered.

 

Just one of the many problems with our attitude to the game.

[waddy78]

Picking out individuals doesn't paint a very representative picture of the leagues.

 

Anyway, our best player is Spanish.

 

Take out every single foreign player.

 

Barcelona still have - Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Villa, Iniesta, Bojan, Busquets and Pedro.

 

Real Madrid still have - Casillas, Arbeloa, Ramos, Raul, Guti, Albiol, Alonso and Granero.

 

was going to make that point myself (you type quicker) the premier league will need to find a balance otherwise nations like spain will just get better as England stand still

[goatboy59]

Nuggets.

[RED Tezza]

England need an English manager, this is not a xenophobic outburst and to prove it I will tell you why. The English premiership is one of the two best leagues in the world because of the PACE it is played at. For about 2 minutes against Germany, England tapped into that mentality and the Germans couldn't live with it.

 

Whilst i don't wholely disagree with the point you're making this bit did intrigue me seeing as things worked out so well for the Last English manager to hold the job. In fact you could argue that the last three English managers have failed as much if not worse in one case than the foreign mangers and in fact only 2 out of the last six English managers have been in any way Half decent and even then Robson's job was constantly on the line according to the media.

 

The major problem would appear to be the Players, they don't have the mental capacity to embrace or the attributes a different system, whether that's down to the way they have been brought up and coached in this country i don't know. but i suspect that it plays a major factor in the mentality of some. as the current crop in this World cup have looked so goddamned average not too mention failing to even qualify for the last European Championships.

 

I do see what you are driving at however and I agree England should play to their strengths which is why i am amazed that Crouch only played a bit part in the tournament.

[CWD82]

I'm looking forward to seeing Fabrice Muamba swaggering around the Maracana next World Cup

[Il Fenomeno]

Picking out individuals doesn't paint a very representative picture of the leagues.

 

Anyway, our best player is Spanish.

 

Take out every single foreign player.

 

Barcelona still have - Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Villa, Iniesta, Bojan, Busquets and Pedro.

 

Real Madrid still have - Casillas, Arbeloa, Ramos, Raul, Guti, Albiol, Alonso and Granero.

 

There are a lot less clubs in Spain aswell so if you're any good in the lower leagues you're going to end up at Madrid/Barca B teams.

 

There's also the issue because they are players in B teams they will get sold for a lot cheaper than if they were youngsters in Southampton's 1st team say so there is more room to experiment and gamble with youngsters there when in England.

 

Compare these figures

 

Theo Walcott (17) - Southampton to Arsenal - £9.1m

 

Javi Martinez (17) - Osasuna B to Athletic Bilbao - £4.8m

 

Having a more competitive reserve system is the reason why they have more talented players and also their talent is much cheaper.

[Horus]

[Guest PurpleNose]

There are a lot less clubs in Spain aswell so if you're any good in the lower leagues you're going to end up at Madrid/Barca B teams.

 

There's also the issue because they are players in B teams they will get sold for a lot cheaper than if they were youngsters in Southampton's 1st team say so there is more room to experiment and gamble with youngsters there when in England.

 

Compare these figures

 

Theo Walcott (17) - Southampton to Arsenal - £9.1m

 

Javi Martinez (17) - Osasuna B to Athletic Bilbao - £4.8m

 

Having a more competitive reserve system is the reason why they have more talented players and also their talent is much cheaper.

 

You're going to have to expand on your first point. Its doesn't make much sense. Especially as lots of these players have come through the academies. They're from the city of their club, and have been at the club since they were a child. Why can't they end up at Villarreal or Sevilla? Both clubs have excellent second teams.

 

Our Reserve leagues are shite, should be scrapped, and we should copy Spain. I'm not sure that its an entirely valid excuse for not producing decent footballers though.

 

The market largely dictates prices. If clubs are stupid enough to pay £10m for Theo Walcott then thats what he'll go for. That was a very odd signing, especially for a club that actually does scout well abroad, and has taken advantage of much lower prices for quality players than here.

 

Its all excuses. If a club is run well, with a patient chairman, willing to put a long term plan in place to produce good local players, then it can happen. Get in some foreign coaches if need be (like we have with Rodolfo) to teach kids football properly.

 

The fact is that our clubs can't be arsed. They care about making as much money as possible, fuck everything else. We end up actually taking a bigger risk as we wildly try to speculate to accumulate.

[gkmacca]

It's amazing to think Ron Greenwood was the last man at the FA to really show any imagination. He set up a line of succession and co-ordinated the various levels tactically and technically. Now we just see everything staked on finding a manager to do it all. Trevor Brooking is the only person behind the scenes who seems to realise what needs to be done, and they ignore him.

[Lee909]

No.

 

But then no amount of quality 17-22 year olds would fill me with any confidence much will change.

 

Our entire attitude to football needs to change. Our methods of coaching. Our values. Everything. Absolutely fucking everything.

 

What you rhink theres somthing wrong with the Fat Sam book of 4-4-2 coaching.thread last night

 

Step 1 Big strong lads-no room for skill

step 2 Bypass the midfield with a nice traditional long ball to the big man for a flick on.

 

Posted my thoughts on another thread last night

England are always 10 to 15 years behind the new systems being used.

Look at Utd relative success over the last couple of years in Europe,Fergie stole the systems that Mourinho and Benitez were using-playing 1 up top and supporting midfielders and then he started getting success again after years of 4-4-2 and playing with pace. the English game and Premier league style of Passing-Tackling-and pace of the game have held the national sides back for a long time.

Look at our best clubs in europe over the past 5-10 years. liverpool/chelski and the scum. All have midfielders who controlled the pace of the game and broke up play,they all played on the counter with 1 lone striker and others floating in behind. Liverpool were controlle by Alonso and Momo then Masch cling the ballplayer down. Drogba has been one of the best lone men around and had the ability to control the game.

[Captain]

I don't know where the phrase comes from, but there is no golden generation.

[Lee909]

Barca without foriegners

 

------------------------Valdes

--?-------------Puyol---------Pique-----

 

--------------Xavi-------Busquets

 

--------------------Iniesta

Bojan--------------Villa----------------Pedro

 

Pinto

Fabregas soon

Sergio

Jeffren

 

thats all from the youth accademy bar Villa

[Guest PurpleNose]

Muniesa could play as the third centre back.

[MLB]

England have a pool of players good enough to get to at least the semi finals of the World Cup.

[Guest PurpleNose]

ITV now.

 

Discussing this topic.

 

Townsend talking utter shite.

 

Southgate talking sense.

[cuppatea]

Here's the "golden generation" according to wikipedia:

 

* Michael Owen

* Steven Gerrard

* Frank Lampard

* David Beckham

* Rio Ferdinand

* Paul Scholes

* Wayne Rooney

* John Terry

* Ashley Cole

* Sol Campbell

* Joe Cole

* Owen Hargreaves

 

They've all been big players for big teams. Apart from our lads they've all won multiple league titles. Apart from Owen they've all played in Champions League finals. Between them they've represented Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Bayern Munich and collected a boat load of medals (both team and individual) along the way.

 

That's a lot of top class players for any country to produce at once.

[gkmacca]

That's a lot of top class players for any country to produce at once.

 

Is it? I'm not being facetious, I'm just not sure - has any comparative study been done? What about Moore, Charlton and Co? Or Keegan's generation? Or Digger's? I'm not sure there's much difference numerically. Just a hell of a difference in terms of hype.