Just realised something

[Agent Smith]

If/When we get fourth this season, we haven't actually qualified for the champions league proper next season. What happens if we do a Newcastle early next season? Should GH go then, after a handful of games? Just one of those late night thoughts when you're trying to sleep but you're mind wanders a bit.

 

Bet nobody thought of that! :tease: I think I've put a new spin on the "Should GH stay or go debate". There's life in the old dog yet (referring to the debate, not me). :party:

 

Contenderrrrs rrrrready! Gladiatorrrrrs rrrrrready! Thrrrrrreee, Two, One, :whistle:

[Steve]

thats right, all 4th gets you is a cup tie play off in effect. and remember that depending on how English teams do over time, we cold lose the 4th spot to Germany or France. We;d be really fucked then.

[Dr.Filth]

thats right, all 4th gets you is a cup tie play off in effect. and remember that depending on how English teams do over time, we cold lose the 4th spot to Germany or France. We;d be really fucked then.

 

I hope that does happen. It's the only thing that will force the club to be more ambitious.

[Nunavut Patrick]

Last time we had the play-off we avoided Maccabi Haifa, I think. They fielded an ineligible player. Instead we got MyPa 47 and thumped them. It's going to make for a long season for Owen, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros and other 04 intls. Aren't uefa thinking about reverting back to the original EC with only the champions getting in?

[Barrington Womble]

the current format for this season will last for the next 2 seasons after this as this is what is contracted by TV deals. i think platini has been pushing for the change back to champions only, but i don't think the G14 (in fact and a whole heap of other clubs) are too keen on the idea.

[Guest Original202]

Last time we had the play-off we avoided Maccabi Haifa, I think. They fielded an ineligible player. Instead we got MyPa 47 and thumped them. It's going to make for a long season for Owen, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros and other 04 intls. Aren't uefa thinking about reverting back to the original EC with only the champions getting in?

Actually we played Mypa47 in the 96-97 Cup Winners Cup 1st Round.

 

When we qualified for the Champions League in 2001 we played FC Haka. ;)

 

I would love to think that UEFA would revert back to a champions and holders only qualifying system, but then the G18 Clubs would probably break away and football would become an even bigger mess :no

 

And a Newcastle situation could happen even if we got fourth place. And teams get fuck all if they get knocked out in the group stage - which we would. The money only starts to mount up in the second round. People say its a £15m jackpot. Which is false. If we qualified as champions then won it, we'd take about £20m. If we qualified through fourth place (like Milan did last year) and won it we'd get about £15m, it all depends how you qualified which determines how much of the money you should get.

[Barrington Womble]

last year when we got knocked out in the 1st group stage, we still picked up near on £9M in prize money. On top of this we had the gate money for 3 matches which will have cleared it way above £10M. It's still better than a poke in the eye imo.

[Bamo]

Of course the additional 4th place was only awarded to England on the back of our success in winning the UEFA cup in 2001.

 

So you could say that it is thanks to GH that 4th is any use at all!

 

Although the champions only format was great in its way and in its day there was always something odd about a competition to represent the elite of Europe where there were only 4 or so teams with a realistic chance of winning it and the Champions of Italy and Spain could meet the Champions of Luxembourg etc.

 

At least with the current format it is pretty open and the elite of Europe are all competing in the same competition.

 

Champions only is a bit like having the Olympic steeple chase with one Kenyan or Wimbledon with one Brit (oh we already have that!)

[Guest Original202]

last year when we got knocked out in the 1st group stage, we still picked up near on £9M in prize money. On top of this we had the gate money for 3 matches which will have cleared it way above £10M. It's still better than a poke in the eye imo.

Yeah, that was after finishing second though. Our UEFA Cup victory gave us more money than most teams get in the champions league (if you take into account gate reciepts as well).

[Tom R]

I've vented my spleen on here many times before about the current format of the "Champions" League.

 

To some it up in two words would be "Mickey Mouse".

 

I honestly rate the LDV Vans Trophy as a far, far, far better competition than this heap of sh1t. At least the LDV doesn't reward failure, cowardice and mediocrity like the CL so blatantly does.

 

Anyone think I'm wrong? Well you're wrong. ;-) I'm actually completely right.

 

For a kick off, it rewards fourth place in the league with the same prize (pending qualification obviously) as it does to the League Champions.

 

Joke.

 

It encourages once great clubs like ours to consider fourth place as a huge success. It isn't.

 

Joke.

 

Once in this so-called "competition" you can go on to lose 3 or 4 games, draw one or two and then still go on to lift the trophy.

 

That's the biggest Joke of all time... only jokes are funny.

 

The big clubs or "seeded clubs" get granted an easy passage through the group stages by not having to face each other. What a fantastic idea! I wonder which brain box was the 1st to sit down around the table and say "I know, let's remove the competition from the competition! Genius! If the big teams don't get knocked out of the competition then we can make even more money!"

 

Joke.

 

Instead of having the best teams from each country representing the continents Elite competition, what you actually get is the also rans from leagues that are total Poo & Wee in the 1st place, like France.

 

Joke.

 

I could go on with many more reasons as to why the whole shebang is nothing but a pathetic money-spinning hoax, but I think you get my point.

 

Even if we won it I wouldn't be too elated by it. I'd actually be more happy with the money we received than the tarnished trophy. And that is a fvcking joke. A very sad joke.

 

[Barrington Womble]

Yeah, that was after finishing second though. Our UEFA Cup victory gave us more money than most teams get in the champions league (if you take into account gate reciepts as well).

 

Don't think so - every team that got to the group stages got a starting bonus of 2.5M swiss francs and a match fee of 3M swiss francs (1/2M a per game). There are then points bonus's on top of that - we got 1.5M for whatever crap total we got. Basel who came through the qualifiers for 250,000 more than us. It's all on the uefa web site. Unless they've changed it for this season, it doesn't matter how you qualify.

 

http://www.uefa.com/search.htmx?srch=champions+league+prize+money

[Paul]

Tom, I take all your points about the Champions League, but you wouldn't be that made up if we won it? Bollocks. You'd be fucking ecstatic like the rest of us. Nothing beats singing "Champions of Europe" at Anfield. Nothing at all.

[Guest Original202]

Don't think so - every team that got to the group stages got a starting bonus of 2.5M swiss francs and a match fee of 3M swiss francs (1/2M a per game). There are then points bonus's on top of that - we got 1.5M for whatever crap total we got. Basel who came through the qualifiers for 250,000 more than us. It's all on the uefa web site. Unless they've changed it for this season, it doesn't matter how you qualify.

 

ARSENAL EDGE OUT MAN UTD IN EURO CASH LEAGUE

 

Thursday 26th June 2003

 

Arsenal edged out Manchester United in last year's Champions League cash stakes, despite their failure to reach the quarter-finals.

Despite earning an extra £1.7 million for reaching the last eight, United still lagged behind their English rivals when it came to the overall sum received.

The Old Trafford giants pulled in just over £14.1m from their European exploits but Arsenal netted over £14.5m due to a significantly greater `market pool' value.

 

The `market pool' earnings are calculated in part on the previous season's domestic results - when Arsenal won the title - as well as how much national TV companies pay for broadcast rights. That gave Arsenal £9.2m in contrast to United's £6.4m.

Of the Premiership's other Champions League representatives, Newcastle's run to the second group phase saw them rake in £10.8m while Liverpool's first group stage elimination cost them, with the Anfield club earning £9.1m.

In total, UEFA paid out £326.2m in `solidarity payments' to Champions League clubs, with beaten finalists Juventus getting the biggest chunk, £22.2m.

AC Milan earned £20.4m as they finished the previous season fourth in Serie A while Juve won the title.

 

 

http://msn.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,3160-1095202,00.html

[Rex]

I kind of agree with Tom as we won all 4 of ours as champions or holders which makes our own achievements even greater in my eyes. Imagine if it had been that format in the 70's and 80's. How many would we have won then!!!

 

Still all I can say is that if you enter a competition under the rules at the start and you win it within those rules, you can't hold it against the club for winning it. So if we did go onto win it after finishing 4th I would be ecstatic. You can't blame a club if they are the rules. Tom made some great points, but I would still be over the moon if we won it finishing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or whatever.

[vib]

The fact that this bloody fourth place is likely to decide Houllier's future is nothing but a joke!! Hypothetically, we could finish only 10 points behind the winner, and go fifth. Now we could finish 30 points behind the winner and still go fourth. Point being, that we must compare ourselves with the best, not teams like charlton, newcastle and fulham. Whether we get that fourth place or not depends on how Sir Bobby robson and his men performs over the next few months, and that should be completely irrelevant to Houllier's position as LFC boss. Anyway, if we should get it, what the heck is a fourth place, and what the hell have we got to do in the champions league!

 

And yes, as it's mentioned above here, fourth place does not qualify us for the champions league, it qualifies us for the champions league qualification! And going through that is no certainty like we're playing these days!!

[Guest Original202]

What will also be forgotten is that if we get fourth place, we'll have achieved it by finishing above one other half decent team (Newcastle).

 

We aren't a great side, but the rest of the premiership is crap. So many average teams, just look at the league table and see how tight it is.

[Tom R]

Tom, I take all your points about the Champions League, but you wouldn't be that made up if we won it? Bollocks. You'd be fucking ecstatic like the rest of us. Nothing beats singing "Champions of Europe" at Anfield. Nothing at all.

Of course I'd be ecstatic. Admittedly I was on a bit of a rant when I wrote that earlier and it may have come out a bit wrong in my eagerness to get across my hatred of the whole format.

 

If we won it now, though, it would always be a tarnished trophy, you have to admit.

It could never compare to ANY past win by ANY team of the one and only European Cup, nevermind to any of our own, FOUR victories!!:sniff:

 

That's just another of the reasons that Taggart's Knighthood is nothing but a fucking horrible, filthy, dirty blemish on the game that we love.

The achievment wasn't even that great (certainly not when compared to Sir Bob's achievments!) regardless of the fact that the winners still get the same lovely big shiny trophy as they always did previously.

 

And that leads me nicely in to another thing that really, really pisses me off about the Also-Rans League. In fact this probably pisses me off more than any other thing that I hate about it; What makes UEFA think that it can systematically set out to destroy the finest football competition on earth for the sake of a few bob, and THEN still have the nerve to keep the same, timeless, beautiful trophy???!!!!

Even the League Championship trophy was changed for the formation of "The Premiership" (And you don't get me started on that as well!! That is one fucking ugly trophy kids. It looks like an Art-Deco Urn. :whistle: )

Anyway, I digress... My point is that it took far better men than that horrible cunt, Slur Exlax, and far better teams than the '99 Man United team to lift that lovely, lovely trophy in the past so, to me, it's a show of total and utter disregard and disrespect for all the past PROPER winners. Not just Liverpool, but to all past winners (and that includes Manchester United, because this is not just a dig at Ferguson and his turds!)

The Busby team were proper European Cup Winners because they won the proper European Cup and not the soap opera that we have today. I can't help but admire their achievments.

That great Busby team, like FOUR of ours;) won it with the respect of the rest of Europe. Now it's nothing but a joke. I resent most teams who win it these days and that's not the way it should be, even for them down the 62.

 

One last point. I have nere, ever referred to the CL as "The European Cup" like some still do from time to time.

It is NOT teh European Cup anymore!

To say the words "European Cup" in the same sentence as "Champions League" is, for me, (and as melodramatic as it sounds) almost like, say, shitting on a war Hero's medal.

It's nothing short of a disgrace, the whole shebang.

 

you can keep your fucking Champions League. it's shite*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Disclaimer - I would still very much like to win it.;)

[Barrington Womble]

ARSENAL EDGE OUT MAN UTD IN EURO CASH LEAGUE

 

Thursday 26th June 2003

 

Arsenal edged out Manchester United in last year's Champions League cash stakes' date=' despite their failure to reach the quarter-finals. [/left']

Despite earning an extra £1.7 million for reaching the last eight, United still lagged behind their English rivals when it came to the overall sum received.

The Old Trafford giants pulled in just over £14.1m from their European exploits but Arsenal netted over £14.5m due to a significantly greater `market pool' value.

 

The `market pool' earnings are calculated in part on the previous season's domestic results - when Arsenal won the title - as well as how much national TV companies pay for broadcast rights. That gave Arsenal £9.2m in contrast to United's £6.4m.

Of the Premiership's other Champions League representatives, Newcastle's run to the second group phase saw them rake in £10.8m while Liverpool's first group stage elimination cost them, with the Anfield club earning £9.1m.

In total, UEFA paid out £326.2m in `solidarity payments' to Champions League clubs, with beaten finalists Juventus getting the biggest chunk, £22.2m.

AC Milan earned £20.4m as they finished the previous season fourth in Serie A while Juve won the title.

 

 

http://msn.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,3160-1095202,00.html

 

but man u got a bigger market pool than us - and we finished 2nd to there 3rd.

[Stu Monty]

Tom, for all the downsides of thenew format it means that the best team in europe that season are most likely to win it. You can finish 4th in your domestic league and under theold format you could be the greatest team the world has ever seen in the following season but you still wouldn't be crowned european champions, as you wouldn't be in it.

 

Factor into the equasion the undoubted and proven bribery of referee's in the old format and Real's "magnificent" haul when they started it and won it for the first 5 years or something stupid while it was still taking off.

 

Becuase of the wealth gap in football the old format would provide a much duller more predictable competition.

 

Who outside Arsenal, Bayern, Milan and Depor (i think they won thier league?) would have a chance?

[Tom R]

"Tom, for all the downsides of thenew format it means that the best team in europe that season are most likely to win it. You can finish 4th in your domestic league and under theold format you could be the greatest team the world has ever seen in the following season but you still wouldn't be crowned european champions, as you wouldn't be in it."

 

Eh??? What kind of logic is that?O_o

How on earth does the best team most likely win when the team that wins can lose three or four games and get beaten in the final by team that is undefeated?

 

"you could be the greatest team the world has ever seen in the following season but you still wouldn't be crowned european champions, as you wouldn't be in it."

 

Too fvcking right! because you shouldn't be in it!! That's like saying that if we play amazing for the remainder of this season that we should be allowed to continue in the FA Cup!!

 

The "Champions" League is nothing but a farce.

[Original202]

Spread the wealth.

 

Would be great to see more Eastern European teams being able to qualify, but instead the champions of the eastern leagues are knocked out in the qualifying stages.

 

Can you see Steaua Bucharest ever winning the competition again? If teams like Steaua were able to qualify, they'd benefit from the prize money, ok they might not be able to sign Zidane or anything, but the money would help them improve nonetheless, and it would also help football in their country.

 

But clubs like them will get poorer while the big English, Spanish, Italian and German sides get richer.

[goatboy59]

2 points dropped to Wolves

3 to Portsmouth (and one cup exit to their Reserves)

2 to Bolton (and one cup exit)

5 to Spurs

2 to Everton

2 to Man City

3 to Southampton

2 to Boro

 

and "we'll be okay when all our players return" has turned out to be yet another myth

 

you all seem to making an almighty assumption that 4th is merely there for the taking.

 

Can we wait till we win another league game before we start calculating CL wealth?

[Stu Monty]

Tom,

 

In the old system, the year after blackburn won the league they would have been our ownly reprasentatives, and were quite frankly the biggest pile of piss i've ever seen in europe. The best side in europe one year might not have neccesarily won the league the previous season. For example when Bayern and Man Utd met in the final and neither had won the league the year before.

 

Having four teams from the major leagues means it is a lot more likely that the best side in the continent actually wins the trophy in a said season.

?

[Hermes]

Manchester United were only in the Champions League in 1999 because they allowed the 2nd team into it. Before that it was only the champions who qualified. Not like the mancs to benefit is it?

[Tom R]

Tom,

 

In the old system, the year after blackburn won the league they would have been our ownly reprasentatives, and were quite frankly the biggest pile of piss i've ever seen in europe. The best side in europe one year might not have neccesarily won the league the previous season. For example when Bayern and Man Utd met in the final and neither had won the league the year before.

 

Having four teams from the major leagues means it is a lot more likely that the best side in the continent actually wins the trophy in a said season.

?

I can see your thinking (sort of) but to win a trophy, any trophy, then you must be the best team in the competition to win it. ie. you must not get beat from round one right through to the final hence proving that you are the best team of the tournament.

In the CL, though, the best team doesn't win because the team that wins can have been beaten several times on the way to the final! So, not only are they not really the best team in Europe, but they might not have even been the best in the competition!

C'mon fella. Tell me you can see that, please mate!:thumbsup:

 

Sing it with me brother, "The Champions League is full of shite!":blah :thumbdown

 

:smile: