Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[Section_31]

That's quality. There are a number or sections of motorway across the country which are built by private firms, repaid over 20 years or so by public funds in big fat monthly payments. These payments are reduced if congestion reaches a certain level. In the event of that happening, though, the scheme owner will present a business case for investment for congestion reduction schemes, which have to be accepted as there's no other option than to watch congestion get worse and worse. The investment is always taken from the taxpayer of course. Utterly ridiculous.

 

The proposed new bridge between Widnes and Runcorn could actually be built by a state-owned Chinese company, being paid for by tolls by odinary (mostly poor) residents, residents who've had access to a free bridge for thirty years up until then.

 

Nothing sums up the lunacy of the new global economy. Money going directly from English people's pockets into the Chinese government's coffers - a state which will soon eclipse us all and has a grotesque human rights record - all so it can build a bridge to benefit English firms, but harm private residents.

 

Was watching a thing about Tony Benn yesterday and it showed him overseeing the Concorde project built by the British state. Can you imagine that now? Deriving that level of pride from a British state engineering achievement which wows the whole world? Even Rolls Royce is owned by the Germans. It feels like the whole country has been sold off to the shittest bidder, all the while our biggest rivals are doing the reverse of us.

[Anny Road]

Vince Cable is awfully quiet these days.

[aws]

Vince Cable is awfully quiet these days.

 

I get the impression he was happier saying "You didn't want to do that" from the sidelines.

[Anny Road]

I get the impression he was happier saying "You didn't want to do that" from the sidelines.

 

Was he and Clegg not banging on about taxing the banks who got us into this mess. Oh right that was before the election.

[lifetime fan]

Was he and Clegg not banging on about taxing the banks who got us into this mess. Oh right that was before the election.

 

To be fair, I expect Cable to be the first to fuck off the fake lib/Con's pact.

 

He is on record stating the libs should have done a deal with Labour and the nationilists before the fale libs decided to fuck everything off and grab power.

[Strontium]

Can't argue with that. I'm sure SD can though. Over to you SD.

 

 

The man who wrote that letter appears to be rather ill-informed. It seems to have escaped his attention that the taxpayer now owns most of the banks. It wasn't just a case of the taxpayer bailing them out, we got whopping great chunks of them for our troubles.

 

I am sure that when the time is right the government will divest itself of its considerable stockholding in the financial sector and recoup all that investment.

 

 

Was he and Clegg not banging on about taxing the banks who got us into this mess. Oh right that was before the election.

 

 

What makes you think there isn't going to be a bank tax?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

recoup all that investment.

 

If they get anything like that I'll strip and run 5 laps around Anfield*.

 

 

 

*false promise.

[lifetime fan]

the taxpayer now owns most of the banks. It wasn't just a case of the taxpayer bailing them out, we got whopping great chunks of them for our troubles.

 

I am sure that when the time is right the government will divest itself of its considerable stockholding in the financial sector and recoup all that investment.

 

Please point out when and where?

[dennis tooth]

The banks are only one half of the problem anyway, if we pull out of our two wars tomorrow we wouldn't have any debt. Also sack Trident, the most pointless wastage ever, Clegg's Risdale fishtank.

 

As for SD, the banks are continuing to make bad choices and will continue to overleverage our economy as it is in their interest that we fail to have any control over them, it's business as usual for them, we propped them up but we don't have any more control of them than before we bailed them out. We have very little sway and the chaps at the topp won't do anything to rock their boat, that much is clear, that's why we are the first victims not the banks.

If they wanted the take on the banks they would have done so. SD you are living in a dreamworld, stroking a picture of Nick. They'd rather continue pointless wars that make us a target for attacks both army and civi's. Camewrong was talking all high and might about 'doubling' roadside bomb teams, well David, those things cost few pence for resistance fighters to assemble, you can triple, quadruple teams on roadside bomb duties at big costs and there will always be another angry chappie who can make another, even if it is disarmed, by a crack team, it's still cost effective for the resistance, it uses up our resources while it takes them a few minutes to make another at a fraction of the cost of a roadside bomb team, any more than you can stop all rain if you have enough umbrella, you can never win, the only option is to exit, stop wasting money, pay the Iraqi's reparations now.

How can Nick Clegg, 'pay tribute' to the soldiers and then keep them out there in harms way for no good reason? He is sick in the head.

 

Take those 3 measures alone and there would be no need to cut public services and make hospitals suffer, it's clear if they do cut the public services though that they have no intention on the above 3 cuts as they do not work for the public, they work against them.

Edited June 10, 2010 by dennis tooth

[Section_31]

Vince Cable is awfully quiet these days.

 

He's stepped down as Lib Dem deputy chief to 'concentrate on his role' at the Department for Business. He'll be in the Labour shadow cabinet within a year IMO.

[lifetime fan]

He's stepped down as Lib Dem deputy chief to 'concentrate on his role' at the Department for Business. He'll be in the Labour shadow cabinet within a year IMO.

 

As a card carrying member I think he'll have to step down a lot sooner rather than later not to be tarnished with the same brush.

[Strontium]

He's stepped down as Lib Dem deputy chief to 'concentrate on his role' at the Department for Business. He'll be in the Labour shadow cabinet within a year IMO.

 

 

Wishful thinking. Vince is a lefty liberal, not a lunatic. He's as appalled by the gratuitous waste of the last lot as anyone.

[Stu Monty]

Wishful thinking. Vince is a lefty liberal, not a lunatic. He's as appalled by the gratuitous waste of the last lot as anyone.

 

And in another timeline another SD posts something brutal about the smelly tories and defends Labour to the hilt.

 

*Because in that timeline Labour got a few more votes and pallied up with his boys*

[JER]

Wishful thinking. Vince is a lefty liberal, not a lunatic. He's as appalled by the gratuitous waste of the last lot as anyone.

 

Appalled by it? He begged Gordon Brown to form a coalition.

 

The inevitable recession that's coming will be see waste on an unprecedented scale - let's see how that deficit reduces with zero economic growth.

[BatChainPuller]

 

I am sure that when the time is right the government will divest itself of its considerable stockholding in the financial sector by selling it to its friends in the City at discounted prices as they did with all the other privatised national assets. Pricewaterhouse Coopers etc will also help themselves to fat chunks of any profits.

 

 

Fixed that for you.

[Anubis]

The proposed new bridge between Widnes and Runcorn could actually be built by a state-owned Chinese company, being paid for by tolls by odinary (mostly poor) residents, residents who've had access to a free bridge for thirty years up until then.

 

 

The Prosecution would like the Court to examine Exhibit A, M'lud....

 

 

Skye Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Toll controversy

 

The first major capital project funded by the Private Finance Initiative, the bridge has been controversial since its construction was announced. In exchange for the contractors funding the bridge's construction themselves (rather than being paid to do so from the public exchequer) they were granted a licence to operate the bridge and charge travellers tolls. When the Bridge contract was first awarded, the partnership estimated it would cost around £15 million, although delays and design changes added significantly to the cost (to around £25 million, by the BBC's estimate).

 

The tolls charged by the bridge concessionaire, Skye Bridge Ltd., proved to be particularly unpopular. By 2004 a round trip cost visitors £11.40, fourteen times the round trip price charged by the Forth Road Bridge (a crossing over twice the length), a price which protesters claimed made it the most expensive road in Europe. As the Skye bridge was being constructed, several other (smaller) bridges were also being built or planned in the Hebrides, connecting smaller islands either to larger ones or to the mainland. These bridges were to be public roads without tolls, and Skye locals came to believe that the Skye bridge too was a public road on which no toll should be levied.

 

The ferry operator, Caledonian MacBrayne, had made a profit of over a million pounds per year on the route, but observers from the BofA and later the National Audit Office noted that many locals were excused the ferry fee by ferry workers, with much of the ferry's revenue coming from the heavy summertime tourist traffic. One local told the BBC that on the day following a defeat of the English football team by their German counterparts, ferry workers had let cars bearing German registration plates travel for free. In the bridge's first year of operation it recorded traffic of 612,000 vehicles, a third more than the ferry's official numbers.

 

The campaign included mass protests and a prolonged non-payment campaign, and continued as long as the tolls. A toll-collector interviewed by the BBC in 2005 said that abuse of collectors by motorists had been commonplace. Numerous toll opponents were cited for refusing to pay the toll, with around 500 being arrested and 130 subsequently convicted of non-payment. Among those charged was Clodagh Mackenzie, an elderly lady from whom the land necessary for the bridge's arrival in Skye had been compulsorily purchased; the charges against her were subsequently dropped without explanation. Of those convicted, only the first, the SKAT Secretary Andy Anderson, received a (brief) prison term. Those charged with non-payment had to make the 140 mile round trip to Dingwall sheriff court, again crossing the bridge and where again many refused to pay, incurring a further criminal charge. Robbie the Pict argued that the legal paperwork for the tolls was incomplete, and that consequently the tolls themselves were illegal. In particular he said that the "assignation statement", a licence to charge a toll, had never been given. Interviewed later by the BBC Fiscal Davind Hingston in Dingwall refuted this claim, but admitted that he himself had been denied access to many government documents on the case, on the grounds of commercial confidentiality. Hingston told the BBC "As a fiscal I was stuck with that evidence but as a private individual I found it stunning" [1], leading to renewed calls that the convictions of the toll protesters should be quashed - to this the Crown Office reiterated that appeals on these grounds had already been rejected by the courts.

 

The bridge, and the toll protest, became a continuing political issue. Following the 1997 General Election, the Labour-run Scottish Office introduced a scheme whereby tolls for locals were subsidised (the scheme cost a total of £7 million). Following the creation of the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish Labour Party joined in coalition with the Scottish Liberal Democrats, who had made the Skye Bridge toll abolition one of their priorities. With responsibility for Scotland's road network transferred from Westminster to the Scottish Executive, increased political pressure was placed on the toll's future. On 3 June 2004, Jim Wallace, the Enterprise Minister in the Scottish Executive announced that he hoped the bridge would be bought out, and tolls abolished, by the end of 2004.[2] In line with this, on 21 December 2004, Scottish Transport Minister Nicol Stephen announced that the bridge had been purchased for approximately £27 million, and toll collection immediately ceased.[3] During the preceding decade £33.3 million in tolls had been collected. Figures obtained by the BBC under freedom of information laws showed the consortium's operating costs on the bridge during this period had been only £3.5 million.

 

The topic is explored extensively in George Monbiot's book Captive State in which he examines the merits and demerits of the Private Finance Initiative.

 

 

Captive State is well worth a read. Especially on this issue.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

The Prosecution would like the Court to examine Exhibit A, M'lud....

 

 

Skye Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Toll controversy

 

The first major capital project funded by the Private Finance Initiative, the bridge has been controversial since its construction was announced. In exchange for the contractors funding the bridge's construction themselves (rather than being paid to do so from the public exchequer) they were granted a licence to operate the bridge and charge travellers tolls. When the Bridge contract was first awarded, the partnership estimated it would cost around £15 million, although delays and design changes added significantly to the cost (to around £25 million, by the BBC's estimate).

 

The tolls charged by the bridge concessionaire, Skye Bridge Ltd., proved to be particularly unpopular. By 2004 a round trip cost visitors £11.40, fourteen times the round trip price charged by the Forth Road Bridge (a crossing over twice the length), a price which protesters claimed made it the most expensive road in Europe. As the Skye bridge was being constructed, several other (smaller) bridges were also being built or planned in the Hebrides, connecting smaller islands either to larger ones or to the mainland. These bridges were to be public roads without tolls, and Skye locals came to believe that the Skye bridge too was a public road on which no toll should be levied.

 

The ferry operator, Caledonian MacBrayne, had made a profit of over a million pounds per year on the route, but observers from the BofA and later the National Audit Office noted that many locals were excused the ferry fee by ferry workers, with much of the ferry's revenue coming from the heavy summertime tourist traffic. One local told the BBC that on the day following a defeat of the English football team by their German counterparts, ferry workers had let cars bearing German registration plates travel for free. In the bridge's first year of operation it recorded traffic of 612,000 vehicles, a third more than the ferry's official numbers.

 

The campaign included mass protests and a prolonged non-payment campaign, and continued as long as the tolls. A toll-collector interviewed by the BBC in 2005 said that abuse of collectors by motorists had been commonplace. Numerous toll opponents were cited for refusing to pay the toll, with around 500 being arrested and 130 subsequently convicted of non-payment. Among those charged was Clodagh Mackenzie, an elderly lady from whom the land necessary for the bridge's arrival in Skye had been compulsorily purchased; the charges against her were subsequently dropped without explanation. Of those convicted, only the first, the SKAT Secretary Andy Anderson, received a (brief) prison term. Those charged with non-payment had to make the 140 mile round trip to Dingwall sheriff court, again crossing the bridge and where again many refused to pay, incurring a further criminal charge. Robbie the Pict argued that the legal paperwork for the tolls was incomplete, and that consequently the tolls themselves were illegal. In particular he said that the "assignation statement", a licence to charge a toll, had never been given. Interviewed later by the BBC Fiscal Davind Hingston in Dingwall refuted this claim, but admitted that he himself had been denied access to many government documents on the case, on the grounds of commercial confidentiality. Hingston told the BBC "As a fiscal I was stuck with that evidence but as a private individual I found it stunning" [1], leading to renewed calls that the convictions of the toll protesters should be quashed - to this the Crown Office reiterated that appeals on these grounds had already been rejected by the courts.

 

The bridge, and the toll protest, became a continuing political issue. Following the 1997 General Election, the Labour-run Scottish Office introduced a scheme whereby tolls for locals were subsidised (the scheme cost a total of £7 million). Following the creation of the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish Labour Party joined in coalition with the Scottish Liberal Democrats, who had made the Skye Bridge toll abolition one of their priorities. With responsibility for Scotland's road network transferred from Westminster to the Scottish Executive, increased political pressure was placed on the toll's future. On 3 June 2004, Jim Wallace, the Enterprise Minister in the Scottish Executive announced that he hoped the bridge would be bought out, and tolls abolished, by the end of 2004.[2] In line with this, on 21 December 2004, Scottish Transport Minister Nicol Stephen announced that the bridge had been purchased for approximately £27 million, and toll collection immediately ceased.[3] During the preceding decade £33.3 million in tolls had been collected. Figures obtained by the BBC under freedom of information laws showed the consortium's operating costs on the bridge during this period had been only £3.5 million.

 

The topic is explored extensively in George Monbiot's book Captive State in which he examines the merits and demerits of the Private Finance Initiative.

 

 

Captive State is well worth a read. Especially on this issue.

 

Sad bitter gits.

[Strontium]

And in another timeline another SD posts something brutal about the smelly tories and defends Labour to the hilt.

 

*Because in that timeline Labour got a few more votes and pallied up with his boys*

 

 

Er, if we'd have gone into coalition with Labour, it still wouldn't have changed the fact that the previous Labour administration had pissed billions of pounds away. And going into coalition with the Tories doesn't mean that I don't still think they have a bit of a whiff about them.

 

I think the idea that I would be saying the complete opposite of what I'm saying now had coalition circumstances been different is a complete fiction.

 

Whatever happens in the future w/r/t alliances and the like, I confidently state that Labour will still be wastrels and the Tories will still be a bit nasty.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Er, if we'd have gone into coalition with Labour, it still wouldn't have changed the fact that the previous Labour administration had pissed billions of pounds away. And going into coalition with the Tories doesn't mean that I don't still think they have a bit of a whiff about them.

 

I think the idea that I would be saying the complete opposite of what I'm saying now had coalition circumstances been different is a complete fiction.

Whatever happens in the future w/r/t alliances and the like, I confidently state that Labour will still be wastrels and the Tories will still be a bit nasty.

 

Doubt there will be any coalitions involving the Lib/Dems for a long time after you sold your souls to the devil. So you can sit on the sidelines and snipe away until your heart is content. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[dennis tooth]

The Prosecution would like the Court to examine Exhibit A, M'lud....

 

 

Skye Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Toll controversy

 

The topic is explored extensively in George Monbiot's book Captive State in which he examines the merits and demerits of the Private Finance Initiative.

 

 

Captive State is well worth a read. Especially on this issue.

 

Yeah ace book, well documented them rip offs.

[Monkeywool]

The Government make me sick. Everything is rotten to the core in this country where the mega rich dictate everything and the people at the lower end of the spectrum are forced to live in abject poverty.

[Strontium]

The Government make me sick. Everything is rotten to the core in this country where the mega rich dictate everything and the people at the lower end of the spectrum are forced to live in abject poverty.

 

 

Yes, it's terrible the way that the gap between rich and poor widened under the last Labour government. I say let's narrow it :thumbup:

[Strontium]

Doubt there will be any coalitions involving the Lib/Dems for a long time after you sold your souls to the devil. So you can sit on the sidelines and snipe away until your heart is content. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

 

As long as 5 years in coalition helps society to dispense with the kind of juvenile political tribalism which you are displaying there, I'll live with it.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

As long as 5 years in coalition helps society to dispense with the kind of juvenile political tribalism which you are displaying there, I'll live with it.

 

You and your 'political tribalism'. It doesn't 'alf make me wince coming from you.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yes, it's terrible the way that the gap between rich and poor widened under the last Labour government. I say let's narrow it :thumbup:

 

Yeah, that's what the cuts are going to do! That's what the Conservatives are after! They'd like nothing more than everybody to be earning all the same wage and have a classless society. It's the raison fuckin' d'etre.