Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[RedRazor]

Liberal? A 29 year old gets made editor of the Independent and he's a Liberal?

 

Mind you, maybe they think that there's fuck all damage he can do with a dwindling paying readership in five figures. Their sister tabloid, the 20p one, gets more readers and is also edited by a 29 year old now.

 

Both are puppets for Ledebev or whatever his name is.

Maybe he was the only under-30 they could find who could spell and would take the job for £6.90 an hour.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

All in it together are we?

 

Fuck the working man, fuck the sick, fuck the vulnerable.

 

We need to give a 5% increase to the fucking monarchy (after 16% last financial year), they now need £38m a year!

 

 

I fucking hate this country at times and honestly plan to fuck off in years to come.

 

Well the £1m renovation of Wills and Kate's home is not going to pay for itself.

 

A million quid to get your house ready for a newborn child? Fuck off!

[Anubis]

Such is the apathy in this country they're now just taking the piss to see if people will react.

[Section_31]

Such is the apathy in this country they're now just taking the piss to see if people will react.

 

i think they think it's apathy, but the frustration will vent in other ways. There's some interesting things happening on the ground floor. Unions are opening up their membership to non-workers, and you're getting a very obvious move towards centralisation among Labour councils in places like Greater Manchester where they're basically trying to create their own business, health and crime programmes because they feel they've effectively been cut adrift from central government.

 

What astounds me though is how Ed Miliband is still in post, when you look at the shit which used to go on behind Brown's back.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

i think they think it's apathy, but the frustration will vent in other ways. There's some interesting things happening on the ground floor. Unions are opening up their membership to non-workers, and you're getting a very obvious move towards centralisation among Labour councils in places like Greater Manchester where they're basically trying to create their own business, health and crime programmes because they feel they've effectively been cut adrift from central government.

 

What astounds me though is how Ed Miliband is still in post, when you look at the shit which used to go on behind Brown's back.

 

Apparently looking like Wallace makes him appealing to grannies.

 

He is like a dripping tap that drips all night and no matter how tight you turn the tap, it just doesn't stop.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

In any sensible democracy people would find Labour fairly unelectable. Fortunately for them, they operate in a country with Tories and Lib Dems. Whilst I still think Ed Miliband is an intelligent guy, the whole party needs setting fire to it and starting over.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

In any sensible democracy people would find Labour fairly unelectable. Fortunately for them, they operate in a country with Tories and Lib Dems. Whilst I still think Ed Miliband is an intelligent guy, the whole party needs setting fire to it and starting over.

 

I believe he is intelligent on paper, however as soon as he opens his mouth he lacks the ability to be engaging and someone who wants to make you get up and stand behind him in a battle.

 

A true example of when academics should not be fighting the corner for the common man.

 

We need someone who will say fuck and bugger from time to time and not be afraid to stand up and be a different type politician to the majority of ball bags we have a the moment.

 

I can't help but think the majority of politicians are now failed businessmen rather than politicians.

[Section_31]

I believe he is intelligent on paper, however as soon as he opens his mouth he lacks the ability to be engaging and someone who wants to make you get up and stand behind him in a battle.

 

A true example of when academics should not be fighting the corner for the common man.

 

We need someone who will say fuck and bugger from time to time and not be afraid to stand up and be a different type politician to the majority of ball bags we have a the moment.

 

I can't help but think the majority of politicians are now failed businessmen rather than politicians.

 

I actually think the Labour party is quite dumb in terms of how it's led and organised. There is a problem with the fact the mainstream media in this country is right wing.

 

I know for a fact Labour MPs have been instructed not to wade into the 'benefits debate' because the party feels it has 'lost the argument'. Which is bollocks, absolute bollocks, and the fact it believes that is worrying in the extreme.

 

If the party cannot win with the right wing media unless it allows itself to be perceived to be right wing, then it should be engaging with people via other means.

 

Obama helped get himsefl elected by using social networking, and I don't see why Labour can't do things like that. After the last election there was also a groundswell of support among young people, especially in light of the tuition fees protests.

 

The party should have been investing heavily in social media and internet campaigns, viral video marketing and all the rest of it - and - it should have been building a grassroots movement among young people and its original core voters.

 

Instead, it's just refusing to engage in the arguments and hoping the coalition somehow tears itself apart, and is losing all credibility.

 

Who would you be angry with most, the burglar who burgles your house? Or the copper who stands there and watches him do it?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I actually think the Labour party is quite dumb in terms of how it's led and organised. There is a problem with the fact the mainstream media in this country is right wing.

 

I know for a fact Labour MPs have been instructed not to wade into the 'benefits debate' because the party feels it has 'lost the argument'. Which is bollocks, absolute bollocks, and the fact it believes that is worrying in the extreme.

 

If the party cannot win with the right wing media unless it allows itself to be perceived to be right wing, then it should be engaging with people via other means.

 

Obama helped get himself elected by using social networking, and I don't see why Labour can't do things like that. After the last election there was also a groundswell of support among young people, especially in light of the tuition fees protests.

 

The party should have been investing heavily in social media and internet campaigns, viral video marketing and all the rest of it - and - it should have been building a grassroots movement among young people and its original core voters.

 

Instead, it's just refusing to engage in the arguments and hoping the coalition somehow tears itself apart, and is losing all credibility.

 

Who would you be angry with most, the burglar who burgles your house? Or the copper who stands there and watches him do it?

 

Like DaveyCam or whatever the fuck it was called? Cameron hasn't even had to try hard to look better than Milliband. I am sure Ed is a nice fella and all that but he is not a leader. I always say my favourite quote about him from you "the modern day Neville Chamberlain" when people talk about him, as well as the Wallace and Gromit resemblance.

 

I remember you saying the other week that they had given up on the benefits argument. I find that nothing short of scandalous.

 

The problem is as I see it anyway, is that there is no hard left in Labour any more, or potentially any left wing beliefs higher up the ladder so to speak.

 

Politics these days just appears to be about pandering to the masses in image rather than substance. The fact that a lot of today's youth a growing Tories is a scary thing.

 

I see it in work everyday, i challenge these people on their views to create a debate but all you get is, "well I have to work why should they get everything for nothing, or how can they afford a car when she is a housewife?" When I asked them who they voted for in the last election and they say the Tories, I ask them why and the general response is "Gordon Brown was weird looking"

 

You then ask them about the policies that they have voted in and they don't even know any. It is fucking scary.

 

Judgemental little selfish bastards are popping up everywhere, yes I want the best for me and my own, but why shouldn't somebody else get a fair share of the pie.

 

My other half got told along with the whole office she works in that they were getting made redundant. Where I work people get paid more than me (even though I am in a technical role and a step up) and they get bonus for just doing their job. All I hear is well my bonus is being cut. I had one member of staff this morning who was moaning about it and I just said "Count yourself lucky you have a job at all as my bird has is losing hers as she is being made redundant along with 499 other people" the response I got was "Well that is not going to help me pay for my holiday in the Mauritius is it?"

 

That last statement is all you need to know to see the way that a lot of the under 30's think and act.

 

Thatchers vision never went away, as you have alluded to in the past New Labour just painted it red.

[mattyq]

The problem Labour face is the electoral geography of the country.

They have won in Scotland, the North, London and Wales without really having to do anything and face a massive uphill battle in the South West and South east.

It's only really the Midlands which is up for grabs and the psephologists have analysed everything down to the nth degree and come up with Labour's current policies designed to appeal best to the Midlands and win the election

Short term it might be for the best but long term it's disastereous

[Bobby Hundreds]

They all talk bollocks. Its like they exist purely to confuse and put on a production just to make us believe we have a say. The whole system needs changing. Electing one of two parties who then do what they please for 4 years, they then don't do what they need to or what must be done they do what will get them elected again regardless of its worth. How is someone like Cameron qualified to run a country how is osbourne qualified to be in charge of the economics of a country. Why does this system still exist. Why is there 800 lords earning a weeks wage a day sat on their arse in robes. Why does the government need to be involved in every aspect of life. It should exist as a structure in charge of regulating society. Every single area should be streamlined all these middle men a earning huge wages. Its become a massive multi headed monster every head has a different opinion and needs to consume more than there is, its time most of its heads were cut clean off.

[RedRazor]

I actually think the Labour party is quite dumb in terms of how it's led and organised. There is a problem with the fact the mainstream media in this country is right wing.

 

I know for a fact Labour MPs have been instructed not to wade into the 'benefits debate' because the party feels it has 'lost the argument'. Which is bollocks, absolute bollocks, and the fact it believes that is worrying in the extreme.

 

If the party cannot win with the right wing media unless it allows itself to be perceived to be right wing, then it should be engaging with people via other means.

 

Obama helped get himsefl elected by using social networking, and I don't see why Labour can't do things like that. After the last election there was also a groundswell of support among young people, especially in light of the tuition fees protests.

 

The party should have been investing heavily in social media and internet campaigns, viral video marketing and all the rest of it - and - it should have been building a grassroots movement among young people and its original core voters.

 

Instead, it's just refusing to engage in the arguments and hoping the coalition somehow tears itself apart, and is losing all credibility.

 

Who would you be angry with most, the burglar who burgles your house? Or the copper who stands there and watches him do it?

 

This is exactly the problem. We should be angry at both of them. People want to argue the toss about who is to blame when both have some culpability. Politics shouldn't be like supporting a f***ball team but, sadly, that is precisely what it appears to be for a huge proportion of the electorate.

 

As for your comment about benefits - the argument is lost. Due in no small part to the media coverage but also because the benefits system does not appear to be fair. Those people who put most in appear unable to get anything (or very little) out now their turn has come around.

[Moctezuma]

Excellent post there Skid, I'm fed up to the back teeth of my generation. So many people you talk to have so little in the way of understanding it's all about me and my own. In the below piece in the guardian (a newspaper I normally loathe due to its snide moral high horse antics) there is an interview with a young woman who sounds like Thatcher’s spawn, get on and do it yourself cos most people can't be bothered to work...

 

Generation Y: why young voters are backing the Conservatives | Politics | The Guardian

 

Amazing how the strivers vs skivers thing has been swallowed hook line and sinker.

 

For me the below article is the other end of the scale to all this:

Who wants to serve a billionaire? | Money | The Guardian

 

People really have just accepted that those at the top will get progressively richer while everyone else is left behind for the scraps. No one seems to question why or how about we try and share things out fairly or give everyone an equal crack at the whip.

We are falling back toward our pre-war society where a few swan about with obscene wealth while those at the bottom really struggle. I think part of the problem is for many they haven't seen true hardship (during the years of false credit boom) and so can't comprehend what it's like for people. My Gran used to work as a social worker in Liverpool the post war years when means testing was part of government policy, she always said that people were proud and were part of a community and felt insulted by the process of valuing their goods but were in desperate conditions. Now of course we're moving back toward that sort of thing after the statism of Atlee etc. but this time there's little to no community to prop people up as Conservative governments and non-revisionist Labour ones have let the poor take the brunt with unemployment/low wages/ introduction of tuition fees and the scraping of the EMA/ the mishandling of GPs and NHS/ plus the wave of immigration they have let occur so that the jobs market is horrendously competitive.

 

I just don't know where people like Cameron and Osborne get off do they really want to finish the welfare state for good? Have some American system "Sorry sir I know you need chemotherapy but your medical insurance can't cover it", pay for your health-education-everything under the sun. The view over their when you talk to Americans who are centralist or to the right is that people aren't unlucky or haven't had the chance to do well because of circumstance/the situation they were born into, it's all "it's cos they don't work hard enough", "he needs to network more", "their own bad decisions".

 

The Economist was positively salivating at the prospect of this current generation of Britain’s being more libertarian and economically liberal. For me it's more a reflection of political disengagement, the rise of obscene wealth being beamed through our screens (MTV's Cribs anyone?) combined with the narcissism of Facebook ("look at me kite surfing in Rio" selfie).

 

The number of lads I hear saying rubbish like "living the dream" when there talking about some friend who's rolling in it. Internally I feel not, embiteredness or desire but exasperation why would you buy a bottle of Bollinger in a club for £100+ it's just egregious ostentation, pointless and sums up the where people are trying to get to -so empty.

 

That probably wasn’t the most structured rant but you can’t help starting to think that those who want equality built upon a meritocracy are being pushed to the outskirts of the centre right grabbing debate that passes as politics in the U.K.

[lifetime fan]

The problem for Labour isn't just Ed, although he's a massive problem the fucking quim.

 

It's the whole Labour leadership, shadow cabinet and MPs. Bar a very select few there aren't any with the knowledge, nous or debating ability to demonstrate what a bunch of cunts the Tories are.

 

You had Jacqui Smith on This Week last night and Portillo tore her a new one. Now Portillo has had his image makeover and comes across as all friendly and gay but just scratch a little at the surface and he'll quickly let that mask slip.

 

But Labour are intellectually void from the top down and those that actually have ability are over looked because they look awkward in a suit, have crap teeth or have a funny accent.

 

My god he looked like a gnome but where is anyone with the intellect, debating skills and power of conviction of Robin Cook?

 

Labour are fucked and it's their own fault for not having the bollicks to say 'Yes we bloody well are different from the Tories and this is why...' Labour have moved further and further to the right and are then shocked when they're not as good at it as the naturally right wing Tories.

 

Stupid cunts. I'm ashamed to admit I was a card carrying paid up member of that group of cuckolds.

[lifetime fan]

The problem for Labour isn't just Ed, although he's a massive problem the fucking quim.

 

It's the whole Labour leadership, shadow cabinet and MPs. Bar a very select few there aren't any with the knowledge, nous or debating ability to demonstrate what a bunch of cunts the Tories are.

 

You had Jacqui Smith on This Week last night and Portillo tore her a new one. Now Portillo has had his image makeover and comes across as all friendly and gay but just scratch a little at the surface and he'll quickly let that mask slip.

 

But Labour are intellectually void from the top down and those that actually have ability are over looked because they look awkward in a suit, have crap teeth or have a funny accent.

 

My god he looked like a gnome but where is anyone with the intellect, debating skills and power of conviction of Robin Cook?

 

Labour are fucked and it's their own fault for not having the bollicks to say 'Yes we bloody well are different from the Tories and this is why...' Labour have moved further and further to the right and are then shocked when they're not as good at it as the naturally right wing Tories.

 

Stupid cunts. I'm ashamed to admit I was a card carrying paid up member of that group of cuckolds.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

The problem for Labour isn't just Ed, although he's a massive problem the fucking quim.

 

It's the whole Labour leadership, shadow cabinet and MPs. Bar a very select few there aren't any with the knowledge, nous or debating ability to demonstrate what a bunch of cunts the Tories are.

 

You had Jacqui Smith on This Week last night and Portillo tore her a new one. Now Portillo has had his image makeover and comes across as all friendly and gay but just scratch a little at the surface and he'll quickly let that mask slip.

 

But Labour are intellectually void from the top down and those that actually have ability are over looked because they look awkward in a suit, have crap teeth or have a funny accent.

 

My god he looked like a gnome but where is anyone with the intellect, debating skills and power of conviction of Robin Cook?

 

Labour are fucked and it's their own fault for not having the bollicks to say 'Yes we bloody well are different from the Tories and this is why...' Labour have moved further and further to the right and are then shocked when they're not as good at it as the naturally right wing Tories.

 

Stupid cunts. I'm ashamed to admit I was a card carrying paid up member of that group of cuckolds.

 

My Uncle met Robin Cook about 9 months before he died and said that in 2 hours Robin Cook had restored his faith in MP's and said he was in awe just being in his presence.

[lifetime fan]

Pissing phone. Double post can a mod delete the second one please.

[Champ]

My Uncle met Robin Cook about 9 months before he died and said that in 2 hours Robin Cook had restored his faith in MP's and said he was in awe just being in his presence.

 

And John Smith

 

And Labour, so much more than the Tories, needs its MPs to have a background in real work and real life, not simply career politicians

[Anubis]

Robin Cook's resignation from cabinet speech before the Iraq invasion was immense. Claire Short sold him down the river by falling into line like a frightened schoolgirl, the shithouse.

[RedRazor]

Excellent post there Skid, I'm fed up to the back teeth of my generation. So many people you talk to have so little in the way of understanding it's all about me and my own. In the below piece in the guardian (a newspaper I normally loathe due to its snide moral high horse antics) there is an interview with a young woman who sounds like Thatcher’s spawn, get on and do it yourself cos most people can't be bothered to work...

 

Generation Y: why young voters are backing the Conservatives | Politics | The Guardian

 

Amazing how the strivers vs skivers thing has been swallowed hook line and sinker.

 

For me the below article is the other end of the scale to all this:

Who wants to serve a billionaire? | Money | The Guardian

 

People really have just accepted that those at the top will get progressively richer while everyone else is left behind for the scraps. No one seems to question why or how about we try and share things out fairly or give everyone an equal crack at the whip.

We are falling back toward our pre-war society where a few swan about with obscene wealth while those at the bottom really struggle. I think part of the problem is for many they haven't seen true hardship (during the years of false credit boom) and so can't comprehend what it's like for people. My Gran used to work as a social worker in Liverpool the post war years when means testing was part of government policy, she always said that people were proud and were part of a community and felt insulted by the process of valuing their goods but were in desperate conditions. Now of course we're moving back toward that sort of thing after the statism of Atlee etc. but this time there's little to no community to prop people up as Conservative governments and non-revisionist Labour ones have let the poor take the brunt with unemployment/low wages/ introduction of tuition fees and the scraping of the EMA/ the mishandling of GPs and NHS/ plus the wave of immigration they have let occur so that the jobs market is horrendously competitive.

 

I just don't know where people like Cameron and Osborne get off do they really want to finish the welfare state for good? Have some American system "Sorry sir I know you need chemotherapy but your medical insurance can't cover it", pay for your health-education-everything under the sun. The view over their when you talk to Americans who are centralist or to the right is that people aren't unlucky or haven't had the chance to do well because of circumstance/the situation they were born into, it's all "it's cos they don't work hard enough", "he needs to network more", "their own bad decisions".

 

The Economist was positively salivating at the prospect of this current generation of Britain’s being more libertarian and economically liberal. For me it's more a reflection of political disengagement, the rise of obscene wealth being beamed through our screens (MTV's Cribs anyone?) combined with the narcissism of Facebook ("look at me kite surfing in Rio" selfie).

 

The number of lads I hear saying rubbish like "living the dream" when there talking about some friend who's rolling in it. Internally I feel not, embiteredness or desire but exasperation why would you buy a bottle of Bollinger in a club for £100+ it's just egregious ostentation, pointless and sums up the where people are trying to get to -so empty.

 

That probably wasn’t the most structured rant but you can’t help starting to think that those who want equality built upon a meritocracy are being pushed to the outskirts of the centre right grabbing debate that passes as politics in the U.K.

I don't accept the premise that people don't care or that they are selfish and are only interested in what they can get out of the system for themselves. Take a look back at every major charity drive and you will see that the people of this country are all too willing to put their hand in their pocket to help out people in dire circumstances.

 

The problem is that there is a line that everyone has that they will not cross and that is when helping someone else is to their own detriment. I don't think that this is any different in this generation to any that have gone before.

 

The problem is that the amount of money people are being asked to contribute to domestic welfare via taxation and national insurance is doing exactly that.

[lifetime fan]

Robin Cook's resignation from cabinet speech before the Iraq invasion was immense. Claire Short sold him down the river by falling into line like a frightened schoolgirl, the shithouse.

 

 

[YOUTUBE]I0f8NBlmwwE[/YOUTUBE]

[lifetime fan]

And John Smith

 

And Labour, so much more than the Tories, needs its MPs to have a background in real work and real life, not simply career politicians

 

 

What could have been...

[Gym Beglin]

Freud: Cheat and I’ll slash more

Lord Freud has threatened to withdraw hundreds of millions of pounds from councils if they get soft on those affected by the ‘bedroom tax’. He has issued an ultimatum to local authorities who reclassify rooms to help tenants escape the levy. He said: “Where it is found that a local authority has redesignated rooms, without reasonable grounds and without reducing rents, my department would consider restricting or not paying their housing benefit subsidy.”

Sunday People p8, Mirror

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Local Government trying to help people out, but Central Government stepping on their throats and demanding the full amount.

 

 

And then, to further make you smile, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (Ipsa) are saying that MP's should be paid 10% more.

Now, let's not lose sight of the high probability that Members of IPSA are morally bankrupt and doing this for friends in high places.

 

This is the convenient evidence supplied to show that our MP's are malnourished compared with other countries:

 

Salary

 

UK - £66,396

French Deputy - £72,861

Irish TD - £79,250

US Congressman - £114,375

Australian MP - £114,489

 

However, there is no indication of pension arrangements, nor 'perks' or sheer numbers of each, and the power they wield, or the number of people they represent.

 

We're in danger of always trying to evidence that something is 'right' or 'correct' because 'America do it'. If anything, this should be a damn good reason not to do something. By the way, this is the Tory's key argument in the HS2 train debate, that America and Japan are building them therefore it's something we NEED to do. Like somehow it's relevant to us...?

[lifetime fan]

HS2 is a con, you can fly quicker, cheaper and more safely.

[melons]

I'm sure i said this would happen about a year ago in this very thread...

 

BBC News - Impact of housing benefit changes 'worse than feared'

 

Rent arrears are also on the increase - as they are in other parts of the country.

 

East Ayrshire Council says its arrears have increased by 340% following the benefit cut.

 

Increases in arrears have been reported in Dundee, Bolton, Manchester, Cambridge, Leeds, London, north and south Wales