Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[dennis tooth]

I would argue.

 

The options are too close loopholes (seriously is Philip Green really going to leave? His business is based in the UK).

 

Increase taxes (in the short term), but decrease VAT.

 

And increase NI contributions to ensure free NHS.

 

I would rather pay more in tax and NI if I knew that my friends and family had a social structure that took the worry out of daily life.

 

There is a disingenuous argument that is being put forward which suggest that the Government has to 'cut spending', which may be true at some degree. But 'Investing' is designed to bring about rewards, so investing in infrastructure and jobs is not 'spending'. This is the dishonesty that is being promoted at the moment, and sadly people are too stupid and too selfish to think long term.

 

Not going to happen with Lord Ashcroft in charge of the Tories is it? Tax/coffin dodging fuck.

[Whelan]

Not going to happen with Lord Ashcroft in charge of the Tories is it? Tax/coffin dodging fuck.

 

Nope, but in all fairness, during 13 years of Labour they did fuck all about it either!

 

Some one needs to say 'fuck it, let's see what they do'! If Vodaphone want to take their business elsewhere then we as consumers should be given the knowledge to do our business with O2 or Orange.

[dennis tooth]

Miliband nervous breakdown starts early

01-07-11

 

ED Miliband has begun his mental collapse more than three months ahead of schedule.

 

The Labour leader was filmed yesterday saying the same thing over and over again to an ITV reporter, as senior party figures confirmed that he was now in the full embrace of a total nervous breakdown.

 

A former cabinet minister said: "The googly eyes had gotten a lot wider recently but we thought he would at least make it to the end of the summer before something popped inside his noggin."

 

After the interview Mr Miliband left the building, walked past his car and made straight for a cat. After catching it, he held it above his head and said: "These strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on."

 

Eye witnesses said that as well as repeating the mantra over and over again, he seemed to be staring intently at the cat, as if he was trying to hypnotise it.

 

But the full scale of the Labour leader's breakdown was revealed when aides entered Mr Miliband's study to find the phrase 'these strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on' written thousands of times over every available surface.

 

A source said: "It was written on the walls, the floor, the ceiling and on every last scrap of paper. I then, somewhat nervously, chose a book at random off the shelf and, much as I had feared, every page had 'these strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on' written across it hundreds of times in tiny red letters.

 

"I dared not select another one."

 

The source added: "Most of the writing on the walls seems to have been done with a marker pen, but in some places he had switched to tomato ketchup or egg yolk.

 

"In one corner he had spelled it out using bits of macaroni."

[RedRazor]

They may choose to invest. Full stop. I'd not make a further inference without giving pause.

 

This does not create jobs. Most investment of the kind you are referring to takes place into what is called automation. I.E. computers or robots replacing humans and actually creates no jobs and results in laying people off.

 

Thanks for your robotic assessment though. Your services will no longer be required.

Your Luddite tendencies are showing.

 

You suggest that businesses should not invest in technologies that enable them to compete? What do you see as the longer term outcome of such a policy?

[VladimirIlyich]

I would argue.

 

The options are too close loopholes (seriously is Philip Green really going to leave? His business is based in the UK).

 

Increase taxes (in the short term), but decrease VAT.

 

And increase NI contributions to ensure free NHS.

 

I would rather pay more in tax and NI if I knew that my friends and family had a social structure that took the worry out of daily life.

 

There is a disingenuous argument that is being put forward which suggest that the Government has to 'cut spending', which may be true at some degree. But 'Investing' is designed to bring about rewards, so investing in infrastructure and jobs is not 'spending'. This is the dishonesty that is being promoted at the moment, and sadly people are too stupid and too selfish to think long term.

 

Absolutely spot on and a philosophy we obviously both share.

 

And as for businesses being given tax breaks,they will revert to type and do the same as what they have done in the past and mostly this doesnt mean creating jobs.

Maybe a few will but I dont have much faith in big business as they are the most selfish and the reason why they make so much money.

[RedRazor]

I would argue.

 

The options are too close loopholes (seriously is Philip Green really going to leave? His business is based in the UK).

 

Increase taxes (in the short term), but decrease VAT.

 

And increase NI contributions to ensure free NHS.

 

I would rather pay more in tax and NI if I knew that my friends and family had a social structure that took the worry out of daily life.

 

There is a disingenuous argument that is being put forward which suggest that the Government has to 'cut spending', which may be true at some degree. But 'Investing' is designed to bring about rewards, so investing in infrastructure and jobs is not 'spending'. This is the dishonesty that is being promoted at the moment, and sadly people are too stupid and too selfish to think long term.

Exactly my thinking on the NHS. Funding should be ring fenced (NI or something else). There should be a charter that spells out exactly what services it will supply to all of the people (irrespective of postcode) and the cost. We currently demand a Rolls Royce service but only want to pay for a bicycle.

[VladimirIlyich]

Is there still a low cut off point for NI like there used to be,meaning the middle classes and wealthy only have to pay it up to a certain point?

[dennis tooth]

Your Luddite tendencies are showing.

 

You suggest that businesses should not invest in technologies that enable them to compete? What do you see as the longer term outcome of such a policy?

 

I didnt suggest that. I suggested the correlation you are infering between business investment and 'jobs' is an inversley false one.

[RedRazor]

Seems to be an upper and lower limit for employees. £817 pw and £102 pw respectively. 12% payable (up from 11% last year) between the upper and lower limit. 2% on anything over £817 pw. (up from 1% last year). Don't quote me but that is what the HMRC site suggests but it seems to be quite complex.

[Section_31]

There's an air of resignation about everything like this now isn't there? You can see them dismantling the NHS and handing it over to private backers, shitting on the poor and helping their friends as we all knew they would, but it all seems fairly inevitable. The media is partly to blame for that as it is complicit in all of this, mainly because its rank and file are comprised of people like the political class who've never been in a position to need any state help, never been poor, and who just spend their time sniggering at the hopeless and bemoaning the 'hoodie'.

 

The Labour party offers nothing, it's an absolute disgrace of an entity, and also must share the blame of this feeling of inevitability.

 

I once heard fascism described (by a socialist, to be fair) as 'the extreme reaction of the ruling class when its position of power is under threat'. And looking around at our country, at the states, at the non-democratically elected leaders and former bankers in Athens and Rome, that would be hard to dispute. At a lower level, it's also why we're permanently fed stuff about our armed forces, and how supporting them at all costs is some kind of a test of your worth (interesting too that support for the monarchy seems to be climbing).

 

A reckoning is coming, a hugely destructive one IMO. There was an appetite for a global class uprising but it's been snuffed out by an attack on democracy, as we knew it would be, which means any fight back will not be through peaceful means - it will not be done through politics, social media, certainly not through the fucking Labour party, it will be done on the streets (this is no doubt why someone was recently jailed for five years for torching a BBC van during the summer riots, I've been in court when child killers and paedophiles have been given less)

 

The unrest won't start here, Athens or Marseilles or some shit I imagine, but it'll spread like wildfire. People are in great, great distress and many don't even know it. Chaos is coming.

[RedRazor]

I didnt suggest that. I suggested the correlation you are infering between business investment and 'jobs' is an inversley false one.

 

So how do businesses create jobs if not by investing in their business?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Depends entirely on the business. Most major companies are publicly listed and are owned by a number of instituitions including the pension funds that most people will rely on in the future. They may also choose to invest in growth creating more employment opportunities or the longer term security of existing employees. Alternatively they may see it as an opportunity to pay bigger dividends to their shareholders or award the board bigger bonuses.

 

Don't think I did miss the point - I just don't see everything as blue or red.

 

Neither do I. I just understand the way that business taxation works and who it benefits the most.

[VladimirIlyich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladimirIlyich View Post

'During the Cold War, a group of Russian journalists toured the United States. On the final day of their visit, they were asked by their hosts for their impressions. 'I have to tell you,' said their spokesman, 'that we were astonished to find after reading all the newspapers and watching TV, that all the opinions on all the vital issues were by and large, the same. To get that result in our country, we imprison people, we tear out their fingernails. Here, you don't have that. What's the secret? How do you do it?'

 

 

Call me thick, but I don't get that...

 

Seriously?

[dennis tooth]

So how do businesses create jobs if not by investing in their business?

 

I dont understand your question. Do you beleive a business exists to just employ people or do you think it exists to make money?

How many potential jobs do u think were lost to supermarkets bringinging in automated checkouts and automated petrol pumps? A lot anyway.

Do you think they giv a shit as long as the money keeps coming in?

Do you think we should give them more public money to invest in them?

If a business model is correct, it shouldnt need public money, if it isnt correct then it shud be left to shrivel and die, like the banks should have been.

[Strontium]

Have you been listing to your friend Kelvin McKenzie,you Tory prick.

 

 

Who pissed on your chips, you fatherfucking tosspot. How about engaging with the point instead of just hurling abuse?

[Cardie]

Who pissed on your chips, you fatherfucking tosspot. How about engaging with the point instead of just hurling abuse?

 

What if people now think he actually fucks his father!!!

[Jose Jones]

I dont understand your question. Do you beleive a business exists to just employ people or do you think it exists to make money?

How many potential jobs do u think were lost to supermarkets bringinging in automated checkouts and automated petrol pumps? A lot anyway.

Do you think they giv a shit as long as the money keeps coming in?

Do you think we should give them more public money to invest in them?

If a business model is correct, it shouldnt need public money, if it isnt correct then it shud be left to shrivel and die, like the banks should have been.

 

So you are a free market man then Dennis?

[dennis tooth]

It.doesnt matter if your going to do capitalism, do it properly.

Not much worse than corporate welfare. Lets then see free market fail, shrivel and die off by following its own rules, its ionly fair its given a. Hance to do so.

[Jose Jones]

It.doesnt matter if your going to do capitalism, do it properly.

Not much worse than corporate welfare. Lets then see free market fail, shrivel and die off by following its own rules, its ionly fair its given a. Hance to do so.

 

That's a bit bonkers though isn't it?

Capitalism constrained by strong regulation and social structures and respect for people has worked reasonably well, and certainly you could make a fairly convincing argument that it's worked better than any other social system.

What you need to get going is the strong regulation and social structures and respect shit. Not just fuck things worse to make a point. Otherwise you might be the Tea Party.

[Whelan]

Capitalism deployed in america is different to that which is used in Northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia and you get a different social structure as a response.

The American economic model is losing its lustre. It is all very well arguing the case for trickle down economics when you are in the midst of a financial boom, but when you have great cities like Detroit abandoned, high unemployment, people living in 3rd world conditions, and a middle class losing homes, jobs and pensions then you start losing the argument.

[Jose Jones]

Capitalism deployed in america is different to that which is used in Northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia and you get a different social structure as a response.

The American economic model is losing its lustre. It is all very well arguing the case for trickle down economics when you are in the midst of a financial boom, but when you have great cities like Detroit abandoned, high unemployment, people living in 3rd world conditions, and a middle class losing homes, jobs and pensions then you start losing the argument.

 

Agreed. I'm all for nice capitalism.

There is a long history of proof how it works better, but for some reason people don't take much notice. Even the most recent example of lack of regulation and unmitigated greed fucking things up was only a few years ago, but seems to be have been ignored completely when it comes to sorting things out.

[dennis tooth]

I will try to demonstrate why I disagree with your point later jose, got to go out now tho

[Whelan]

Agreed. I'm all for nice capitalism.

There is a long history of proof how it works better, but for some reason people don't take much notice. Even the most recent example of lack of regulation and unmitigated greed fucking things up was only a few years ago, but seems to be have been ignored completely when it comes to sorting things out.

 

My personal belief is that the most damaging aspect of Thaterism was the destruction of social capitalism. If you destroy communities, you remove the sense of a community and the sense of being part of something bigger. Social housing was removed forcing people to move away from their families and friends, and the rise of suburbs simply meant that people didn't see themselves as part of a community.

 

Once you remove that, you see selfishness grow and people start looking inward. England (not Scotland or Wales) seems to be a selfish country, particularly away from the major cities. It seems to be anathema to people to suggest a slight rise in taxes could keep services in place and people in jobs, and maybe the i5 can wait.

[Section_31]

It all depends on what you see as being 'the point' of capitalism, of economics, of money, of business. For me, it should be to keep as many people employed as possible so they can survive, live, support their children. It's like an eco system, just the way nature's framework was navigated by man to feed and clothe himself, the economic model should be used for the same thing. But it doesn't, it exists to maximise profits at any costs - usually for short term gain to boost a share price, leading to poor decision making in the long term, the destruction of the environment and a model where people are an expense that must be removed from the equation.

 

I feel many people don't quite grasp the lunacy of an economic model that doesn't include people except as consumers.

[dennis tooth]

System No Longer Works, Confirms UN

24-04-08

 

THE socio-economic system which has governed much of the globe for over a century finally stopped working at around 9pm last night, the United Nations has confirmed.

 

UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon made the announcement as retail giant Wal-Mart stopped Americans from buying rice and the cost of butter in British supermarkets reached 94p.

 

With poor people in fertile countries rioting because they could not afford to eat the food they had just grown, the UN chief said it was time for him to hide in a cupboard.

 

He added: "As of this moment, free markets, capitalism and the rule of law are - oh, how should I put this? - fucked into a cocked hat.

 

"We're planting crops for fuel instead of food in order to make it cheaper to drive to the shops where we then buy food that is much more expensive because we've planted crops for fuel instead of food. You can see where I'm going with this, right?

 

"Meanwhile, the banks are borrowing money from taxpayers so that they can then lend the same money back to the taxpayers at a higer rate of interest than they borrowed it from them in the first place. Seriously, is it just me?

 

"Anyway, point is, we're a bit stumped. The communist one doesn't work either - in fact it's probably even worse, and you just end up queuing to buy matches and soap and huddling around oil drums, swigging home made vodka and smoking pathetic, little fags made out of hedge clippings.

 

"So, if anyone does have any spare systems lying around that they're not using, please do email me at spankymoon69@unitednations.com."

 

Wayne Hayes, a shopper from Gloucester, said: "I don't know nothing about systems, all I know is I just paid 94p for some butter. What the fuck is that about?"