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Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"


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Well employment figures are put together by an independent body. If the tories were somehow managing to 'massage' the figures, don't you think Labour would be all over it? So why aren't they?

I do believe that if a youngster, or indeed someone of any age, possesses the necessary desire and determination and makes good career decisions which take them into areas with sufficient demand for labour then they will find opportunities in abundance.

You think the unemployment figures can't be fiddled? Zero hour, part time jobs, are not included for a start. The tuc estimated the real unemployment figures at over 6mil.

 

As for "opportunities in abundance" tell that to university graduates working in call centres. Or they could always get a job in a coffee shop until something more suitable comes along..

 

Or maybe not...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-1700-people-apply-for-just-eight-jobs-at-costa-coffee-shop-8501329.html

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You think the unemployment figures can't be fiddled? Zero hour, part time jobs, are not included for a start. The tuc estimated the real unemployment figures at over 6mil.

 

As for "opportunities in abundance" tell that to university graduates working in call centres. Or they could always get a job in a coffee shop until something more suitable comes along..

 

Or maybe not...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-1700-people-apply-for-just-eight-jobs-at-costa-coffee-shop-8501329.html

 

And the amount of people that are now "self-employed". Many of which don't earn anything.

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You think the unemployment figures can't be fiddled? Zero hour, part time jobs, are not included for a start. The tuc estimated the real unemployment figures at over 6mil.

 

As for "opportunities in abundance" tell that to university graduates working in call centres. Or they could always get a job in a coffee shop until something more suitable comes along..

 

Or maybe not...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-1700-people-apply-for-just-eight-jobs-at-costa-coffee-shop-8501329.html

Like I said, if the figures are fiddled, why aren't labour all over it?

 

The students working in call centres are the ones who made bad study choices.

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Like I said, if the figures are fiddled, why aren't labour all over it?

The students working in call centres are the ones who made bad study choices.

Labour have mentioned it although they fiddle the figures themselves, both major parties do.

 

As for students making wrong career choices, that's a lot of students, If they all went into certain fields the amount of vacancies would not change one iota so the number of graduates working in call centres would also be exactly the same. It would make no difference.

 

Maybe they should all give up their courses and train to be welders.

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Labour have mentioned it although they fiddle the figures themselves, both major parties do.

 

As for students making wrong career choices, that's a lot of students, If they all went into certain fields the amount of vacancies would not change one iota so the number of graduates working in call centres would also be exactly the same. It would make no difference.

 

Maybe they should all give up their courses and train to be welders.

"A lot of students" - again, where's your source? Seems really common on this website for people to make claims on quantity without any back up.

 

Of course it would make a difference. We import no end of skilled labour. No need to do that if people made more informed choices based on where there is actual demand.

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Guest Numero Veinticinco

"A lot of students" - again, where's your source? Seems really common on this website for people to make claims on quantity without any back up.

I've said I'll be back to reply, snide git. I'm not dedicated to responding to inane, poorly thought out nonsense so it'll take me a while to carve out some time. In the mean time, you could just google. This type of thing pops up pretty readily. You're carrying on as if it's somehow a controversial claim. It isn't, it's well known and fairly obvious.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdDIzSUpLX09JNWhHMVlCeVBoTWV6cGc#gid=8

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/mar/06/recent-graduates-employmentlow-skill-jobs

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/mar/06/graduate-employment-low-skill-jobs

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Source?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2014/feb/02/living-standards-of-british-workers-analysis

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/11/fake-self-employment-unreal-jobs

 

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/shock-fall-in-number-of-employees/

 

http://watchinga4e.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/radio-5-live-investigates-self.html

 

Feel free to google some yourself as I just did.

 

I know someone who works at the Job Centre who says he's told to try and get people off JSA and on to Working Tax Credit, as the max they pay a week is £53 rather than £73. The many unemployed people I know say they are encouraged to do this.

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Anecdotally, the amount of my friends who left Uni with good degrees who had to spend a long time working shite low-paid, low-skilled jobs just to get by is ridiculous. To have them dismissed like moose breath did is insulting. To see one of my mates going from being perhaps the smartest dude I've known to working in specsavers and Tesco to avoid homelessness wasn't anything to do with his poor choices. To suggest it is riles me.

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Anecdotally, the amount of my friends who left Uni with good degrees who had to spend a long time working shite low-paid, low-skilled jobs just to get by is ridiculous. To have them dismissed like moose breath did is insulting. To see one of my mates going from being perhaps the smartest dude I've known to working in specsavers and Tesco to avoid homelessness wasn't anything to do with his poor choices. To suggest it is riles me.

 

They just made bad choices or didn't work hard enough. The system is absolutely perfect for everyone, you cunt.

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They just made bad choices or didn't work hard enough. The system is absolutely perfect for everyone, you cunt.

I know I shouldn't get annoyed by stuff people say on the internet, and normally I don't, but that actually pissed me off for a second. You know your mates? Lazy cunts who can't be arsed, they deserve what they get.

 

U wot m8

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I know I shouldn't get annoyed by stuff people say on the internet, and normally I don't, but that actually pissed me off for a second. You know your mates? Lazy cunts who can't be arsed, they deserve what they get.

 

U wot m8

 

I just can't be fucked with them. It's lovely that some people are nice to everyone, and have patience in abundance, can be accepting of all points of view etc, but personally I just think anyone with views that are even approaching Tory, and have an IQ above that of a lump of stilton, are a fucking cunt. 

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I just can't be fucked with them. It's lovely that some people are nice to everyone, and have patience in abundance, can be accepting of all points of view etc, but personally I just think anyone with views that are even approaching Tory, and have an IQ above that of a lump of stilton, are a fucking cunt.

Yeah, I get that view. In general, if I know somebody who is smart, worldly, but still subscribes to that type of politics, then they're either selfish or just a twat. Hasn't failed me yet.

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Anecdotally, the amount of my friends who left Uni with good degrees who had to spend a long time working shite low-paid, low-skilled jobs just to get by is ridiculous. To have them dismissed like moose breath did is insulting. To see one of my mates going from being perhaps the smartest dude I've known to working in specsavers and Tesco to avoid homelessness wasn't anything to do with his poor choices. To suggest it is riles me.

If he was that smart he would have chosen a career path where he knew there was enough demand to provide adequate numbers of jobs.

 

I do agree that a lot of degrees do not provide enough relevant direct entry jobs. You can blame the tories for that if you want, but we all know that it was labour who pushed the absurd idea that 50% of kids should go to uni, when it was plainly obvious that a lot of them would have been much better off doing something like learning a trade. It was labour who caused the imbalance that now leads to young people graduating in largely worthless subjects and finding themselves unable to get a relevant job. Meanwhile those smart enough to realise that if most people are getting generic academic degrees there was going to be skills shortages in trades and more vocational subjects are now reaping the rewards of their foresight.

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If he was that smart he would have chosen a career path where he knew there was enough demand to provide adequate numbers of jobs.

20 years later, he's now worth millions of pounds and pays huge amounts of tax. I'm sure he'd feel terrible that somebody questioned his career choices on the internet. However, besides that, I question the ridiculous and frankly quite myopic notion that you should simply chose a career based on current job demand. Don't be a brain surgeon, kids, but a plumber, we need loads of those. We need all sorts of people, even Alaskans with Eskimo poetry.

 

I do agree that a lot of degrees do not provide enough relevant direct entry jobs. You can blame the tories for that if you want, but we all know that it was labour who pushed the absurd idea that 50% of kids should go to uni, when it was plainly obvious that a lot of them would have been much better off doing something like learning a trade. It was labour who caused the imbalance that now leads to young people graduating in largely worthless subjects and finding themselves unable to get a relevant job. Meanwhile those smart enough to realise that if most people are getting generic academic degrees there was going to be skills shortages in trades and more vocational subjects are now reaping the rewards of their foresight.

What on earth are you rattling on about. Firstly, it's not an absurd idea that 50% of kids go to University. Secondly, since when does going into a trade you don't necessarily have any interest in or aptitude for just to exploit a Labour shortage mean you're 'smart'. There are many other considerations, like suitability and happiness and interest.

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If he was that smart he would have chosen a career path where he knew there was enough demand to provide adequate numbers of jobs.

 

I do agree that a lot of degrees do not provide enough relevant direct entry jobs. You can blame the tories for that if you want, but we all know that it was labour who pushed the absurd idea that 50% of kids should go to uni, when it was plainly obvious that a lot of them would have been much better off doing something like learning a trade. It was labour who caused the imbalance that now leads to young people graduating in largely worthless subjects and finding themselves unable to get a relevant job. Meanwhile those smart enough to realise that if most people are getting generic academic degrees there was going to be skills shortages in trades and more vocational subjects are now reaping the rewards of their foresight.

Yeah, I'm sure the computer programmers who've had their jobs outsourced to India, the builders who've had their wages slashed due to an influx of migrant Labour, and the good people of Gary Indiana currently toasting bread in the ruins of a steel mill while American iPads are built in China will agree that they're all too thick to have seen which way the wind was blowing and should just swallow their medicine.

 

I'm sure most people don't get fucked over because they're lazy and stupid, or are you Louise Mensch?

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Yeah, I'm sure the computer programmers who've had their jobs outsourced to India, the builders who've had their wages slashed due to an influx of migrant Lavour, and the good people of Gary Indiana currently toasting bread in the ruins of a steel mill while Americsn iPads are build in China will agree that they're all too thick to have seen which way the wind was blowing and should just swallow their medicine.

You should have been window fitters, you fucking mugs!

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20 years later, he's now worth millions of pounds and pays huge amounts of tax. I'm sure he'd feel terrible that somebody questioned his career choices on the internet. However, besides that, I question the ridiculous and frankly quite myopic notion that you should simply chose a career based on current job demand. Don't be a brain surgeon, kids, but a plumber, we need loads of those. We need all sorts of people, even Alaskans with Eskimo poetry.

 

 

What on earth are you rattling on about. Firstly, it's not an absurd idea that 50% of kids go to University. Secondly, since when does going into a trade you don't necessarily have any interest in or aptitude for just to exploit a Labour shortage mean you're 'smart'. There are many other considerations, like suitability and happiness and interest.

Sounds like a successful guy who has taken full advantage of the opportunities afforded to him. Good on him, flying in the face of all this negativity.

 

Pushing 50% of kids through uni when not nearly 50% of jobs require a degree is lunacy.

 

Totally agree that there are other factors to consider. We're lucky to live in a country where those options are available. I'm not the one pretending that we live in a completely hopeless country where nobody has any opportunity to make a success of themselves, remember?

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I might have missed the point but if the child minder had been minding the kids then isn't that correct? He/she's earned it.

 

Why £70k?

 

No, you're right. The child minder earned it, thus it wouldn't be in the pocket of the student on loans having this theoretical income of over 20k a year mooseface suggests. 

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-finance-calculator

 

70k of debt was a figure i plumped from thin air, if they do well they could end up paying over 100k. 

 

 

It would go to her bank account for her to use to pay for childcare. Paying for childcare is what the childcare grant is for.

 

I've no idea where you've got £70k from. She would certainly have some 'debt' but it is repaid effectively as a graduate tax on earnings over £21k which means it can effectively be forgotten about. There are no possible scenarios whereby somebody takes out student loans and has to repay the 'debt' without also enjoying a good salary.

 

Keep the excuses coming, by all means, they'll just keep getting batted away.

 

So, err you got it wrong with that student having an income of over 20k a year given it's gone to the child care providers and her actual income is much less. 

 

You're batting is totally missing the ball me dear. 

 

 

I'm talking about childcare grants provided to students specifically, as we were discussing how to finance education. Yes the amount changes depending on the number of children involved.

 

So, financing that education is how easy exactly?  You're also neglecting to question whether children in poverty have been failed during the compulsory years. 

 

 

Well employment figures are put together by an independent body. If the tories were somehow managing to 'massage' the figures, don't you think Labour would be all over it? So why aren't they?

 

I do believe that if a youngster, or indeed someone of any age, possesses the necessary desire and determination and makes good career decisions which take them into areas with sufficient demand for labour then they will find opportunities in abundance.

 

 

You're entitled to your beliefs, the same way people are entitled to disagree with them, when they can back it up and you fail to back yours up, thats when you might want to question those beliefs. 

 

 

Like I said, if the figures are fiddled, why aren't labour all over it?

 

The students working in call centres are the ones who made bad study choices.

 

Really? How do you work that out, are you suggesting that they had the choice of no employment or shit employment and because they chose the latter is was a bad choice? 

 

If he was that smart he would have chosen a career path where he knew there was enough demand to provide adequate numbers of jobs.

 

I do agree that a lot of degrees do not provide enough relevant direct entry jobs. You can blame the tories for that if you want, but we all know that it was labour who pushed the absurd idea that 50% of kids should go to uni, when it was plainly obvious that a lot of them would have been much better off doing something like learning a trade. It was labour who caused the imbalance that now leads to young people graduating in largely worthless subjects and finding themselves unable to get a relevant job. Meanwhile those smart enough to realise that if most people are getting generic academic degrees there was going to be skills shortages in trades and more vocational subjects are now reaping the rewards of their foresight.

 

I have a 2:1 in Health and Social Care, I spent the summer working for minimum wage. My bad. You're just a poor excuse for a human being.  

 

There was nothing wrong with the idea of 50% of the population having a university education, it benefits society in more ways than just the financial aspect. However, if that is how you alone measure a productive society I'm afraid you're belief system is more than a little absurd. 

 

The jobs market, nothing to do with the global economic system? 

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Sounds like a successful guy who has taken full advantage of the opportunities afforded to him.

He did take advantage of all the opportunities afford to him. He knew somebody he met in University and they used their privileged upbringings, an interest free loan from the friend's father, and contacts they knew from University, to build a business that offered absolutely nothing to society, or to anybody other than financial institutions looking to make a quick buck, other than one guy deciding to pay tax because the safety net was there when he needed it. Unfortunately not everybody has that opportunity. Still, it had fuck all to do with his education, which was excellent.

 

Pushing 50% of kids through uni when not nearly 50% of jobs require a degree is lunacy.

No, it isn't. Not unless you're building a society for today with no regard for tomorrow.

 

Totally agree that there are other factors to consider. We're lucky to live in a country where those options are available. I'm not the one pretending that we live in a completely hopeless country where nobody has any opportunity to make a success of themselves, remember?

Who is doing that? That's a serious question, who is pretending we live in a completely hopeless country where nobody has any opportunity to make a success of themselves?

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No, you're right. The child minder earned it, thus it wouldn't be in the pocket of the student on loans having this theoretical income of over 20k a year mooseface suggests.

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-finance-calculator

 

70k of debt was a figure i plumped from thin air, if they do well they could end up paying over 100k.

 

 

 

So, err you got it wrong with that student having an income of over 20k a year given it's gone to the child care providers and her actual income is much less.

 

You're batting is totally missing the ball me dear.

 

 

 

So, financing that education is how easy exactly? You're also neglecting to question whether children in poverty have been failed during the compulsory years.

 

 

 

 

You're entitled to your beliefs, the same way people are entitled to disagree with them, when they can back it up and you fail to back yours up, thats when you might want to question those beliefs.

 

 

 

Really? How do you work that out, are you suggesting that they had the choice of no employment or shit employment and because they chose the latter is was a bad choice?

 

 

I have a 2:1 in Health and Social Care, I spent the summer working for minimum wage. My bad. You're just a poor excuse for a human being.

 

There was nothing wrong with the idea of 50% of the population having a university education, it benefits society in more ways than just the financial aspect. However, if that is how you alone measure a productive society I'm afraid you're belief system is more than a little absurd.

 

The jobs market, nothing to do with the global economic system?

So you only count income as income if it doesn't have to be spent on something? Lol wow, that's a new one. You were saying that going into education as a single mother was impossible due to childcare costs, I pointed out that if you go into education as a single mother you get childcare paid for through childcare grants. Simple as that. You can also get tuition fees paid for and maintenance loans and grants plus extras for certain situations, then potential for bursaries, awards and so on. I know people who left low paid full time work to go back to uni and ended up considerably better off as a full time student not working at all than they were before. Plenty of money is available for people of all ages and situations who want to improve their prospects.

 

You've not said much else here. On the 50% of kids going to uni thing, how has that worked out then? You lot all seem pretty keen to get across how bad things are out there, why is that the case then if labour's children were all supposed to be such well rounded and capable people having each been given a degree for ticking boxes?

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So you only count income as income if it doesn't have to be spent on something? Lol wow, that's a new one. You were saying that going into education as a single mother was impossible due to childcare costs, I pointed out that if you go into education as a single mother you get childcare paid for through childcare grants. Simple as that. You can also get tuition fees paid for and maintenance loans and grants plus extras for certain situations, then potential for bursaries, awards and so on. I know people who left low paid full time work to go back to uni and ended up considerably better off as a full time student not working at all than they were before. Plenty of money is available for people of all ages and situations who want to improve their prospects.

 

You've not said much else here. On the 50% of kids going to uni thing, how has that worked out then? You lot all seem pretty keen to get across how bad things are out there, why is that the case then if labour's children were all supposed to be such well rounded and capable people having each been given a degree for ticking boxes?

 

Why are you assuming that we all support every single policy of the Labour party?

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