Cameron: "Cuts will change our way of life"

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I have a big problem with people doing a days work for anything less than minimum wage. I wouldn't do it, so I don't expect anybody else to, regardless of whether or not they're work shy little shits or not. 

[Red Phoenix]

These people are just obvious trolls basically. They're complete frauds.

 

Their aims are to divide people, create fear and anger, make sure that the rich stay rich, make sure that the bankers who created this mess don't ever get charged for any of their numerous crimes, and then I guess, finally, suck Satan's cock.

 

They'll all get their karma one day, I kind of feel sorry for them thinking about what that's going to be like.

[Section_31]

I have a big problem with people doing a days work for anything less than minimum wage. I wouldn't do it, so I don't expect anybody else to, regardless of whether or not they're work shy little shits or not. 

 

I can see both sides of the coin, I'm as liberal as you in most matters but I've also been raised on, and still live on, council estates. My extended family are all benefit fraudsters too. I've seen first hand how fucked up the welfare system can be.

 

I've seen single mothers tear an entire neighbourhood apart because of the behaviour of her kids and the people who come to their house for parties, safe in the knowledge that nobody will ever kick them out and, if they do, they'll be rehoused.

 

There is a sense of entitlement that's bled into the system, there's no doubt about that. People who have no vested interest in society, they've never owned anything, they've got no problem with smashing your car window because they don't know what it feels like to save for something and then see it destroyed.

 

The reasons for that level of poverty existing in the first place is an argument we've waded into many times, theirs a lot wrong with the way wealth is distributed in this country, but as a self contained argument, there's a lot wrong with the safety net too.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I can see both sides of the coin, I'm as liberal as you in most matters but I've also been raised on, and still live on, council estates. My extended family are all benefit fraudsters too. I've seen first hand how fucked up the welfare system can be.

 

I've seen single mothers tear an entire neighbourhood apart because of the behaviour of her kids and the people who come to their house for parties, safe in the knowledge that nobody will ever kick them out and, if they do, they'll be rehoused.

 

There is a sense of entitlement that's bled into the system, there's no doubt about that. People who have no vested interest in society, they've never owned anything, they've got no problem with smashing your car window because they don't know what it feels like to save for something and then see it destroyed.

 

The reasons for that level of poverty existing in the first place is an argument we've waded into many times, theirs a lot wrong with the way wealth is distributed in this country, but as a self contained argument, there's a lot wrong with the safety net too.

 

Absolutely. Society, or certain sections of it and the way it works, is broken, and I'd say we both know why, but my argument would be that getting people - not all of whom are leeches, of course - to do a days work for their dole money will only see the issue get worse, in my opinion. How can a country with so much fuck up so badly? We need to take a more holistic approach. Rather than the Tories punishing people for not working, we need to look at the entire system. I know you're on board with that, you've said the same thing before. I just don't think this will 1) work or 2) solve anything. It's just the Tories pandering to their cunt voters and their cunt donors. 

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

These people are just obvious trolls basically. They're complete frauds.

 

Their aims are to divide people, create fear and anger, make sure that the rich stay rich, make sure that the bankers who created this mess don't ever get charged for any of their numerous crimes, and then I guess, finally, suck Satan's cock.

 

They'll all get their karma one day, I kind of feel sorry for them thinking about what that's going to be like.

 

Yep, they are divisive, destructive cunts. I hate everything about the Tory party. I hate their cunt leaders, their cunt cabinet, their cunt members, and their cunt voters. I hate them, I hate what they stand for, and I hate the fuckers who fall into the trap of putting these lot into power. They benefit virtually nobody. 

[Tyler Durden]

If they are going to have people working for their dole what type of work will it be? If it's the likes of cutting grass and for instance, council maintenance then surely that allows them to put people paid currently to do that out of a job?

[Phoenix]

If they are going to have people working for their dole what type of work will it be? If it's the likes of cutting grass and for instance, council maintenance then surely that allows them to put people paid currently to do that out of a job?

 

More or less. Tesco will be getting slave labour instead of minimum wage.

[Section_31]

Absolutely. Society, or certain sections of it and the way it works, is broken, and I'd say we both know why, but my argument would be that getting people - not all of whom are leeches, of course - to do a days work for their dole money will only see the issue get worse, in my opinion. How can a country with so much fuck up so badly? We need to take a more holistic approach. Rather than the Tories punishing people for not working, we need to look at the entire system. I know you're on board with that, you've said the same thing before. I just don't think this will 1) work or 2) solve anything. It's just the Tories pandering to their cunt voters and their cunt donors. 

 

I agree with all that.

 

One of the thing which annoys me about all this shit, and the fact the training organisations employed by the government are all short termist, corrupt thieving cunts, is that adult education should be massively expanded and free.

 

At some point, and this is a tragedy, education has become viewed as a commodity, a bigger example of a bankrupt society you will never find.

 

But one of the things good quality unions always advocated, and the likes of the socialist and communist parties in Britain, was the importance of education for their members, and the arts for that matter, that's just not in the equation now at all. The onus will be getting people off the taxpayers' tit by fair means or foul, nothing more.

 

Imagine if the state bankrolled its own company and its own educational institution and just took the reins again in a major industry? It'd be fascinating. Say it took on something like BAE again, trained people en mass and started churning out major projects we could be proud of as a nation like Concorde again. It'll never happen though, B&M is the best these people can hope for I imagine.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Sad but true that Section. I have always believed and will continue to do so that this country could become self sufficient by getting back into manufacturing.

 

We were pretty ace at it back in the day.

[Strontium]

I can see both sides of the coin, I'm as liberal as you in most matters but I've also been raised on, and still live on, council estates. My extended family are all benefit fraudsters too. I've seen first hand how fucked up the welfare system can be.

Surely the best way of disarming Tory attacks on welfare claimants would be to eliminate benefit fraud, and that can only happen if people report it.

 

Seems to me that not reporting it just make it easy for the Tories to scapegoat people, doesn't it?

 

Sad but true that Section. I have always believed and will continue to do so that this country could become self sufficient by getting back into manufacturing.

 

We were pretty ace at it back in the day.

THe UK is the seventh biggest manufacturer in the world. Hardly a forgotten industry, is it.

[Stu Monty]

Surely the best way of disarming Tory attacks on welfare claimants would be to eliminate benefit fraud, and that can only happen if people report it.

 

Seems to me that not reporting it just make it easy for the Tories to scapegoat people, doesn't it?

 

 

THe UK is the seventh biggest manufacturer in the world. Hardly a forgotten industry, is it.

 

Very hypothetical, that SD. You might as well say that reporting assault will eliminate it.

 

How would higher reporting make it hard to scapegoat? Given it's a tiny percentage problem and they manage to blow it up out of all proportion why would a bit of reporting change anything?

 

Just out of interest, any idea what constitutes UK manufacturing? Is that stuff actually manufactured here or companies registered here that make products (possibly with manufacturing elsewhere)? The devil is always in the detail isn't it.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

It's not even a big problem. It's just the latest moral panic. It's a diversion from things that really matter. 

[Stu Monty]

It's very basic divide and conquer.

 

Whatever you do don't wonder why in a country of plenty the many are scraping around. Blame your neighbour, not the guy in No 10 with the tax-avoidance generated trust fund, middle-managing the charade for his seniors.

[JER]

http://newsthump.com/2013/09/30/no-one-should-get-something-for-nothing-claims-man-who-got-everything-for-nothing/

 

 

 

 

A man who inherited a multi-million pound fortune due to a twist of genetic fate has insisted that nobody should be getting money for nothing.

 

George Osborne said that the era of people getting money for not doing anything was over, and that people must work for what they are given, unless it’s vast quantities of cash from a wealthy relative.

 

Osborne told Tory conference attendees, “Just because I had all this money handed to me on a plate doesn’t mean these people should get any money handed to them on a plate.”

 

“I see how this could seem quite hypocritical to some.  But the situations are very different – I got my money due to a quirk of circumstance, whereas these people are getting theirs due to circumstances beyond their control.”

 

“See how different this is? Plus I got a LOT of money, these people are just getting a few pounds a week.”

“The situations are incomparable if you think about it for a short while.”

 

Osborne benefit reform

 

Critics have said the latest plan from the Conservatives risks taking society back to a time when the nation’s cities were filled with work houses and abject poverty.

 

“Ah, the good old days,” concluded Osborne.

[razor]

THe UK is the seventh biggest manufacturer in the world. Hardly a forgotten industry, is it.

 

Where did you get that from, SD?  I see it was 9th in 2010 (which surprised me), but has it made a recovery since then? http://www.economicsinpictures.com/2013/01/changing-top-manufacturing-countries.html

 

I think we can all see that manufacturing has declined markedly in the UK since the 70s:

Manufacturing’s share of total UK economic output has been in steady decline for many decades, from more than 30% in the early 1970s to 11% in 2011. (Parliament Briefing Paper)

[Stickman]

According to charities such as Help the Aged, Citizens Advice, Save the Children up to £16 billion are left unclaimed in benefits every year....I guess even our work shy scrounges in this country are crap at claiming money they are owed .

As opposed to around £5 billion taken in benefit fraud and £80 billion in tax avoidance.

 

As usual with the Tories and especially George Gideon Oliver Osborne it's so easy to go after the weakest in society and blame them for the countries ills.

As with most bullies once they have made a scapegoat out of them they will move onto another target.

[KopOut]

Cut cut cut, and at the same time, Cameron wants to subsidise first home buyers?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Cut cut cut, and at the same time, Cameron wants to subsidise first home buyers?

It's not really subsidising though is it. It's a short term loan.

 

Subsidising would mean they wouldn't have to pay it back.

[Moctezuma]

I enjoyed this new political dictionary:

 

http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/blog_comments/wearings_political_dictionary_red_ed_edition

 

This I particularly enjoy:

 

‘Fiscal responsibility’ - government's responsibility to bond traders to balance the state's budget on the backs of the poor.

[Scooby Dudek]

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/mythbuster-welfare-reform/

 

The latest Department for Work and Pensions estimates show that in 2011/12 just 0.7 per cent of benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud, including a 2.8 per cent fraud rate for jobseeker’s allowance and a mere 0.3 per cent for incapacity benefits. Even if we put together fraud with ‘customer error’ – people who are not entitled to benefits but not deliberately defrauding the state – the rate of false claims is 3.4 per cent for JSA and 1.2 per cent for incapacity benefit.

 

If we could just get it down to 2.6% they would never mention it.

 

Also;

 

The academics Paul Gregg and Lindsay MacMillan looked at the Labour Force Survey, the large-scale survey of households from which we get most of our statistics about who’s in work. In households with two or more generations of working age, there were only 0.3 per cent where neither generation had ever worked. In a third of these, the member of the younger generation had been out of work for less than a year.

When they looked at longer-term data, they found that only 1 per cent of sons in the families they tracked had never worked by the time they were 29. What’s more, while sons whose fathers had experienced unemployment were more likely to be unemployed, this only applied where there were few jobs in the local labour market. So ‘inter-generational worklessness’ is much more likely to be explained by a lack of jobs than a lack of a ‘work ethic’.

[lifetime fan]

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/mythbuster-welfare-reform/

 

The latest Department for Work and Pensions estimates show that in 2011/12 just 0.7 per cent of benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud, including a 2.8 per cent fraud rate for jobseeker’s allowance and a mere 0.3 per cent for incapacity benefits. Even if we put together fraud with ‘customer error’ – people who are not entitled to benefits but not deliberately defrauding the state – the rate of false claims is 3.4 per cent for JSA and 1.2 per cent for incapacity benefit.

 

If we could just get it down to 2.6% they would never mention it.

 

Also;

 

The academics Paul Gregg and Lindsay MacMillan looked at the Labour Force Survey, the large-scale survey of households from which we get most of our statistics about who’s in work. In households with two or more generations of working age, there were only 0.3 per cent where neither generation had ever worked. In a third of these, the member of the younger generation had been out of work for less than a year.

 

When they looked at longer-term data, they found that only 1 per cent of sons in the families they tracked had never worked by the time they were 29. What’s more, while sons whose fathers had experienced unemployment were more likely to be unemployed, this only applied where there were few jobs in the local labour market. So ‘inter-generational worklessness’ is much more likely to be explained by a lack of jobs than a lack of a ‘work ethic’.

 

 

And you can fuck off with your reasonong and logic.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Duncan smith talking of ending the something for nothing culture. Will they fuck off MPs expenses. They can do what everyone else does and use their wages to buy things like food. God I fucking hate conservatives, could it be any clearer they genuinely think the vast majority of people exist purely to serve them and their needs.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Labour can do one too. Weak opposition. Any party with balls would be coming out to condemn Iain Duncan Smith's speech today, with his "mandatory attendance centres" for the unemployed. A despicable, ideologically driven, hate filled, demonising policy proposal.

 

And what do we get? Dianne Abbott exposing Eric Pickles' departmental biscuit bill?

 

Spin, spin, spin. Oh, do fuck off!

[Rico1304]

Duncan smith talking of ending the something for nothing culture. Will they fuck off MPs expenses. They can do what everyone else does and use their wages to buy things like food. God I fucking hate conservatives, could it be any clearer they genuinely think the vast majority of people exist purely to serve them and their needs.

I think it's the other way round, we need to increase MP wages so clever, talented but 'normal' people see it as a career path. At the moment the money isn't great iif you consider they could get fucked off after 4 years so you get previliged twats who couldn't make it in the real world.

 

I'd do the same for teachers too, attract the best people to the job.

[stringvest]

True, this. It's a very risky business if you're not in the fortunate position of having substantial family wealth to fall back on. 60, or even 90k is a joke.