F.A.O Forum bellends

[sir roger]

I have noticed that the name-calling and personal abuse tends to come from the people who still backed Rafa more than from the other side of the fence.

 

Not saying it was all one-sided but definitely the majority of fans who were in support of Rafa frowned on any criticism and let themselves down with petty abuse. Even on a few threads over the past few days since he was sacked it still carries on.

 

The title of the thread is obviously meant to be provocative & is not helpful with wounds still a bit raw.

 

I disagree with your first paragraph however, and feel it is quite naive of the people who have vilified Benitez for a long time, often in very offensive terms, to expect other forumites to accept their immediate transformation into St Francis Of Assissi as soon as he goes.

[Delmar]

Venting about the current manager of the team is topical. Now he's gone? Not so much.

 

It's just arguing for arguing's sake. If people really want to get away from all the infighting then they'll take a step back and get on with looking to the future.

 

There's nothing to achieve from venting about something which is history.

 

History? How many days today? It will pass, you could also take a step back by not complaining about it.

[zigackly]

I thought it was a very good article with one or two minor flaws, but I don't see why it had to be posted three times and I very much don't like the confrontational attitude with which it was posted, so some negging has occurred.

 

As for all the bitter squabbling in the subsequent thread, I can only say INRAT.

[torahboy]

 

 

 

Yet the dove, lost in its heartlifting reverie, had forgotten that nature's forces create polarity - differences in geological features as marked and balanced as the extremes in animals. The temperate and peace loving disposition of the white bird opposed by the aggressive, preying instinct of the falcon that swooped from nowhere and..........terrrrrwwwwwaaaaattttttt!

[Brownie]

History? How many days today? It will pass, you could also take a step back by not complaining about it.

 

I'm only complaining about the thread title; pointless. The rest is just boring and I haven't even read it.

[billybonzo]

Neg away homo's.

[njackets]

Rafa Benitez leaves Liverpool as a legend so could critics please stop rewriting history?

 

Right to the end the professional pundits failed to understand why so many Liverpudlians stayed loyal to Rafa Benitez.

 

As 500 fans marched on Anfield after his departure, chanting the Spaniard’s name, heads shook at a footballing sub-species bracketed somewhere between romantic die-hards and mawkish morons.

 

To the “expert” eye, these deluded fools had been conned by Benitez’s cunning and blinded to his failings by the glory of Istanbul and the criminal incompetence of the American owners.

 

Liverpool fans they said, once among the most knowledgeable in the world, had clearly lost touch with the modern reality, and were now a sad throwback to the days when sideburned men kicked orange balls.

 

Well, I’d argue one of the saddest aspects of modern football is too many pundits, including ex-players, have not paid to watch a game since those orange ball days. And they’ve lost touch with the fan.

 

I’m not saying Benitez had to stay. The results and the football last year were shocking, he’s been a major player in Anfield’s destructive civil war, and the number of fans disillusioned with his style and methods was growing.

 

But to paint his six-year reign as an unmitigated disaster, sustained only by the over-sentimentalising of Istanbul, is analysis at its most skewed and cringeful. By 2004 Liverpool had been relegated to the status of European also-rans. Benitez made the club a genuine world force again.

 

It wasn’t just that 2005 Champions League win (which is shamelessly downplayed as a fluke despite beating Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea and Carlo Ancelotti’s AC Milan). Or reaching the 2007 Champions League final and the 2008 semi-final. It wasn’t even UEFA elevating Liverpool to Europe’s top-seeded club due to results under Benitez.

 

It was beating Real Madrid and Inter Milan at the Bernabeu and San Siro (which the Reds had never before done) and Barcelona at the Nou Camp. Magical victories at the very top of world football, which restored long-overdue respect to Liverpudlian hearts.

 

Ah say the experts, but he didn’t win the league. True. But he got closer than any Liverpool boss in the past 20 years. A season ago he was a whisker away, taking the highest number of points by a runner-up in a 38-game season and the club’s best points haul since 1988.

 

And he did so despite having the 5th highest wage bill in the league, the 5th costliest squad, the 5th biggest stadium capacity and a net annual transfer spend of £15million. Which should have made experts ask why Liverpool were ever considered a nailed-on top four side under Benitez, especially when the boardroom was mired in anarchy.

 

Ah, they say, but he’d long lost the players and the board. So why have Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Daniel Agger, Dirk Kuyt and Pepe Reina signed new long-term contracts within the past year? Why last August did managing director Christian Purslow do interviews purring over Benitez and how he was integral to the club’s future?

 

Ah, the experts say, but that was before he let Xabi Alonso go, which everyone could see was a calamity. These would be the same experts who, for the previous couple of seasons, claimed Liverpool were a two-man team. With Alonso (on whom Benitez turned a £20million profit) never being mentioned as one of those two.

 

Ah, they say, but Torres apart, he only signed sub-standard dross and ended up with a shockingly-weak squad. Really?

 

Liverpool are sending 12 players (13 if you count Milan Jovanovic whose Bosman signing is going through) to the World Cup. Or an entire team: Reina, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Babel, Gerrard, Mascherano, Rodriguez, Kuyt, Torres. Subs: Kyrgiakos, Jovanovic.

 

Eleven Chelsea players flew out to South Africa, the same number as Arsenal, and Manchester United sent eight. Does that look like he’s left Anfield bare of talent?

 

The truth is Benitez leaves a squad worth many times more than the one he inherited, despite spending less in the past three transfer windows than he’s brought in.

 

I don’t seek to rewrite history or airbrush Benitez’s failings. I saw last year’s football and it stank. I felt the growing anger among players and fans at his bloody-mindedness and knew something had to give.

 

Which is why it may be best for all concerned that he walks on. But now he has, let’s do him the honour of getting his legacy right.

 

Rafa Benitez was many things at Liverpool but unlike every manager since Kenny Dalglish, he was not a failure. Indeed a majority of Liverpudlians will remember him as a legend.

 

Because like Bill Shankly, on more days and nights than those expert pundits ever care to recall, he made the people happy.

 

Spot on that!

[zigackly]

Here's something I don't get. Various people seem to be trying to use this article as some kind of big stick for anyone who had doubts about Rafa, but the article makes it very clear that even one of his biggest supporters, Brian Reade, thought he had to go.

 

It is a superb eulogy, and very relevant to those who have attacked Rafa personally and tried to discredit his achievements, but for those of us who acknowledge those acheivements and still think he had to go, it's hardly something we would disagree with much of.

[Vincent Vega]

Here's something I don't get. Various people seem to be trying to use this article as some kind of big stick for anyone who had doubts about Rafa, but the article makes it very clear that even one of his biggest supporters, Brian Reade, thought he had to go.

 

It is a superb eulogy, and very relevant to those who have attacked Rafa personally and tried to discredit his achievements, but for those of us who acknowledge those acheivements and still think he had to go, it's hardly something we would disagree with much of.

 

Agreed, it's more an article for fans of other clubs who think we were deluded for backing him, you can see that from the first paragraph.

[zigackly]

I think it was also directed at those within our fanbase who want to demonise the man to some extent, but it's hardly an endorsement of his continuation in the job.

[Iantn]

Here's something I don't get. Various people seem to be trying to use this article as some kind of big stick for anyone who had doubts about Rafa, but the article makes it very clear that even one of his biggest supporters, Brian Reade, thought he had to go.

 

It is a superb eulogy, and very relevant to those who have attacked Rafa personally and tried to discredit his achievements, but for those of us who acknowledge those acheivements and still think he had to go, it's hardly something we would disagree with much of.

 

I think the thing is that over the past few months this place has been at the point that if you aren't critical of Rafa then you are a supporter of, and also equally the other way.

 

Most of these seem now to have carried on from there, especially those vastly behind Rafa. They can use the logic that Hodgson or O'Neill etc is a step down tp argue that Rafa should have stayed. Those that wanted Rafa moved on have yet to have anything to say 'this is why'. Obviously discounting everything that happened before the end of the season. But they are giving it the full 'unite' stuff.

 

I'm not including everyone within this but as a general thing the forum wont just merge back into one thinking because Rafa has gone. Such where the entrenchments of opinions before he went.

[zigackly]

I'm not including everyone within this

 

I'm glad you added this bit Ian, I was about to majorly kick off ;)

 

Personally my views haven't changed at all since his firing.

[Iantn]

I'm glad you added this bit Ian, I was about to majorly kick off ;)

 

Personally my views haven't changed at all since his firing.

 

Haha, I read it through and thought 'That don't read quite right!'

 

I don't expect many peoples will have and it'll only be in a few months time that some opinions may start to change. As I said such was the divide and such is the uncertainty of the clubs future on and off the field, it'll still be a big issue.

[danperkins]

Think this thread would have went down a whole lot easier if the thread title had of been wee bit different

[Guest TK-421]

I think it's very natural to enter a period of reflection collectively as fans when a manager leaves. We discuss Houllier's reign to this day, and it was often used to draw comparisons with Rafa's tenure, so why can't we discuss Rafa's time here?

 

There's an awful lot to debate about the past, present and future and after six years in charge it's inevitable that Rafa's managership at this club will continue to be discussed and reflected upon.

[zigackly]

I think it's very natural to enter a period of reflection collectively as fans when a manager leaves. We discuss Houllier's reign to this day, and it was often used to draw comparisons with Rafa's tenure, so why can't we discuss Rafa's time here?

 

There's an awful lot to debate about the past, present and future and after six years in charge it's inevitable that Rafa's managership at this club will continue to be discussed and reflected upon.

 

Completely agree. That's twice today!

[RoboRiise]

Are u serious? Em, try teh Champs League Final & The FA Cup final aswell as dozens of other important games, thats a poor comment mate seriously!

 

 

No, the complete lack of respect that you've just shown for the contributions of the other players, in particular in the CL final is a poor fucking comment. Mate.

 

I'm sure Jerzy would be delighted.

[Nunavut Patrick]

Fuck off. Didi Hamman is the biggest fucking reason we won in Istanbul, not Gerrard.

 

 

The Pope's mate is the biggest single reason we won in Istanbul.

 

Breakdown in percentages of why we won in Istanbul:

 

Dudek- 39.4%

Gerrard- 21.8%

Hilary Swank twinging a calf and the panic to get Didi out of the bath where he was relaxing with a cigar and the Racing Form- 6.3%

Fat wasting stretch-marked pretty boy Aussie and his elastic groin, thus allwoing a porn devouring Czech to enter the game- 6.1%

Carragher Cramps- 3.8%

Alonso following up his penalty- 3%

Igor Biscan and his massive cock sitting on the bench- 1.3%

Kaka not having his socks tied off properly- 0.7%

Metujla Gonzalez not seeing a liner flagging- 1.3%

Gattuso being a shortarse with choppy running style thus clipping Gerrard- 2.4%

 

But if you think that the Pope had nothing to do with Istanbul you are wrong:

 

Dudek double save

Penalty save against Schevchenko you can actually see John Paul II lift Jerzy's hand to palm it away.

 

Even atk said so, the raging Prod.

[Super Hans LFC]

Not a balanced of fair article in any way,shape or form. Nothing more than a bitter pro-rafa supporters trying to have a few sly digs at Rafa's critics. His tenure wasn't a disaster, but he certainly does not leave a legend, for people to even consider putting him in the Bracket of Paisley/Shanks etc is nothing short of insulting.

 

Rafa is gone, he had a calamitous last season and we probably as yet, haven't felt the extent of the knock effects of that, that so many strange,bizarre incompromhendable managerial decisions, complete lack of any sort of urgency, uestionable man management skills, horrific transfer especially over past 2 years and all this culminating in a manager, ultiminately not doing the job his job properly. Its not a witch hunt or conspiracy why so many people (pundits,press,media, explayers etc) were criticising him, its not a coincidence some Pro-Rafa fans think this is a mass witch hunt or something, get a grip FFS.

 

Any other manager, at any other top team that was performing like Rafa did would have been sacked 6 months ago. This is not Rafa F.C. , this is Liverpool F.C. , thanks for Istanbul & The FA Cup( To be honest Stevie G won those for us) , you tried your best Rafa but in the end it just wasn't good enough, best of luck elsewhere but you werent the man for the job.

 

Wow seriously wow. What you've achieved is up there with Whelan and Gray in terms of bitterness and BS.

[BolshieBastard]

I have noticed that the name-calling and personal abuse tends to come from the people who still backed Rafa more than from the other side of the fence.

 

Not saying it was all one-sided but definitely the majority of fans who were in support of Rafa frowned on any criticism and let themselves down with petty abuse. Even on a few threads over the past few days since he was sacked it still carries on.

 

Correct. The 'person' who started this thread just like durango positively want it to kick off again by those who wanted benitez gone.

 

You can almost see them praying we have a shit season coming up so at the end of it they can say 'see, you wanted rid of benitez and look where we've ended up.'

 

Im predicting now that sometime next season, the usual suspect, billybonzo, coro, testicleoreilly, durango, johnny whatshisname and others will start such a thread.

[Hoddy]

Steven Gerrard has literally dragged us by th scruff of the neck in so many games, to deny that is pure ignorance mate ( no disrespect)

 

No, to deny that is just good English mate. Who has he ever 'literally' dragged by their neck's scruff?

 

One of my pet hates.

[BatChainPuller]

The Pope's mate is the biggest single reason we won in Istanbul.

 

Breakdown in percentages of why we won in Istanbul:

 

Dudek- 39.4%

Gerrard- 21.8%

Hilary Swank twinging a calf and the panic to get Didi out of the bath where he was relaxing with a cigar and the Racing Form- 6.3%

Fat wasting stretch-marked pretty boy Aussie and his elastic groin, thus allwoing a porn devouring Czech to enter the game- 6.1%

Carragher Cramps- 3.8%

Alonso following up his penalty- 3%

Igor Biscan and his massive cock sitting on the bench- 1.3%

Kaka not having his socks tied off properly- 0.7%

Metujla Gonzalez not seeing a liner flagging- 1.3%

Gattuso being a shortarse with choppy running style thus clipping Gerrard- 2.4%

 

But if you think that the Pope had nothing to do with Istanbul you are wrong:

 

Dudek double save

Penalty save against Schevchenko you can actually see John Paul II lift Jerzy's hand to palm it away.

 

Even atk said so, the raging Prod.

 

67.4 % improvement in these forums since NP has been posting again - all repped out unfortunately.

[Guest TK-421]

Completely agree. That's twice today!

 

Fear not, I'll be back to form soon.

[Thants]

The Pope's mate is the biggest single reason we won in Istanbul.

 

Breakdown in percentages of why we won in Istanbul:

 

Dudek- 39.4%

Gerrard- 21.8%

Hilary Swank twinging a calf and the panic to get Didi out of the bath where he was relaxing with a cigar and the Racing Form- 6.3%

Fat wasting stretch-marked pretty boy Aussie and his elastic groin, thus allwoing a porn devouring Czech to enter the game- 6.1%

Carragher Cramps- 3.8%

Alonso following up his penalty- 3%

Igor Biscan and his massive cock sitting on the bench- 1.3%

Kaka not having his socks tied off properly- 0.7%

Metujla Gonzalez not seeing a liner flagging- 1.3%

Gattuso being a shortarse with choppy running style thus clipping Gerrard- 2.4%

 

But if you think that the Pope had nothing to do with Istanbul you are wrong:

 

Dudek double save

Penalty save against Schevchenko you can actually see John Paul II lift Jerzy's hand to palm it away.

 

Even atk said so, the raging Prod.

 

haha

[Antynwa]

I think it's very natural to enter a period of reflection collectively as fans when a manager leaves. We discuss Houllier's reign to this day, and it was often used to draw comparisons with Rafa's tenure, so why can't we discuss Rafa's time here?

 

There's an awful lot to debate about the past, present and future and after six years in charge it's inevitable that Rafa's managership at this club will continue to be discussed and reflected upon.

 

I agree with this, although I swear to fucking god if in a few months time you turn around and say 'The time was right' I will neg you to fuck.