Fuck off Benitez

[goatboy59]

And that's not even his most notable tactical change.

 

 

I'll trump that ace with

 

[Guest LFD]

Talking of Didi he was on Goals on Sunday yesterday.

[zigackly]

Not starting with Didi was a fucking fruitbat decision with Kaka playing. Bringing him on at half time was a no brainer. The only thing that kept me sane in the Ataturk at half time was watching Didi warm up.

[redrosetints]

If Benitez ends the season empty handed i think it's the longest a Liverpool manager has gone without a trophy since Shankly.

 

Than a single manager ? I think you're probably right, though its all relative, Wengers won nothing in Rafas entire tenure, whilst we have an FA and CL trophy.

 

Noone is saying its ideal or that there is some aboslute value we must abide by, obviouly its all down to your own feelings of the situation.

 

For me over time, we've seen stability is better than change and I think Rafa has done enough to get next season. If were still lookin gat flat draws or away defeats come christmans then we know its time to move on.

[redrosetints]

I'll trump that ace with

 

 

Funny isnt it, the Rafa haters always call him a cowardly cunt and yet in the biggest single club game their is, Rafa dropped his calming german defensive meastro and went for the throat with a more attacking player.

 

Id say that was call for someone with bag balls and not at all cowardly, but it just goes to show how those who dislike him will change their arguemtn when it suits.

 

So what is it GoatBoy ? Should he be cowardly and play Didi or be a man and go for it with Kewell ?

[zigackly]

It wouldn't have been cowardly to play Didi it would have been sensible. We knew what Kaka was capable of with Shevchenko and Crespo ahead of him and we knew we were vulnerable on the break. We should have shackled Kaka from the outset. Rafa had seen PSV going at them from out wide in the other semi and thought that was the way, but seemed to forget it was only when old legs got tired that PSV were getting joy from it. There was some serious headscratching going on when the team news came out before the game, so don't play it as a bold move. Everyone in that stadium knew Kewell's inclusion was a mistake. Thankfully we still won the cup somehow, but neither the starting lineup nor Didi's introduction at half time were acts of managerial genius. More likely Rafa blew a fuse after fuck all sleep and getting it spot on in the knockout rounds.

[goatboy59]

One of the biggest arguments for Rafa was that if we'd won the league last season we wouldn't even be talking about his future.

 

And given the smallest difference there was between coming 2nd or first many are prepared to believe last season was a 'triumph' without an actual trophy.

 

I think there is undeniable validity in that argument. I also think it's academic because he wants out now.

 

In the current climate I believe it's enough just to compete, the actual silverware is a bonus rather than the be-all.

 

Then we're just back to arguing whether this season is a blip or the shape of things to come, like with Houllier in 03.

 

But like I say, if he gets a good chunk of his pay-off (whether they sack him or not) he'll go anyway.

[redrosetints]

It wouldn't have been cowardly to play Didi it would have been sensible. We knew what Kaka was capable of with Shevchenko and Crespo ahead of him and we knew we were vulnerable on the break. We should have shackled Kaka from the outset. Rafa had seen PSV going at them from out wide in the other semi and thought that was the way, but seemed to forget it was only when old legs got tired that PSV were getting joy from it. There was some serious headscratching going on when the team news came out before the game, so don't play it as a bold move. Everyone in that stadium knew Kewell's inclusion was a mistake. Thankfully we still won the cup somehow, but neither the starting lineup nor Didi's introduction at half time were acts of managerial genius. More likely Rafa blew a fuse after fuck all sleep.

 

Id agre with most of that, but it still flies in the face of teh 'cowardly' comments.

 

Who else would do somehting like that in the biggest single game of their lives ?

 

it takes balls.

[goatboy59]

Funny isnt it, the Rafa haters always call him a cowardly cunt and yet in the biggest single club game their is, Rafa dropped his calming german defensive meastro and went for the throat with a more attacking player.

 

Id say that was call for someone with bag balls and not at all cowardly, but it just goes to show how those who dislike him will change their arguemtn when it suits.

 

So what is it GoatBoy ? Should he be cowardly and play Didi or be a man and go for it with Kewell ?

 

First of all, fuck off with the Rafa hater bit.

 

Secondly I was absolutely furious with the dropping of Hamann, especially for a player who had done little or nothing to get us there and was always a fitness risk (he had cried off in Cardiff months earlier and cried off again in Cardiff a year later).

 

Thirdly, was it balls - or just trying to duplicate the semi triumph by grabbing a quick goal and clinging to it for dear life?

 

Seems the Rafalovers will defend anything no matter how clueless it undeniably is/was.

[zigackly]

I've never argued he's a coward though, he does take risks at times. Unfortunately not when we're drawing an away game in the league though ;)

[redrosetints]

One of the biggest arguments for Rafa was that if we'd won the league last season we wouldn't even be talking about his future.

 

And given the smallest difference there was between coming 2nd or first many are prepared to believe last season was a 'triumph' without an actual trophy.

 

I think there is undeniable validity in that argument. I also think it's academic because he wants out now.

 

In the current climate I believe it's enough just to compete, the actual silverware is a bonus rather than the be-all.

 

Then we're just back to arguing whether this season is a blip or the shape of things to come, like with Houllier in 03.

 

But like I say, if he gets a good chunk of his pay-off (whether they sack him or not) he'll go anyway.

 

yeah, these things come down to tiny percentages in the end and id agre with your overall appraisal of the situation in terms of wining things and competing.

 

If you think he wants out and he does, the you are right its all acdemic, the only discussion to be had as to whether or not we'll be better off.

 

Just cos Ged failed in 03/04 after the previous failure, it doesnt mean Rafa will.

 

I look at his valencia achievements and ours and he's come back and bounced back before. 05 was a far worse league season than this and we came good to get 3rd, in La Liga he squeezed a 5th and a UEFA cup in between two titles, hes got previous for this.

 

As I said before, if we get to Christmas and were doing as bad, i dont think anyone will argue agains this leaving, certainly not me.

[zigackly]

05 wasn't a worse league season mate. The table will prove that statement as well.

[Whelan]

05 wasn't a worse league season mate. The table will prove that statement as well.

 

Two points.

 

City, Spurs and Villa were not around in 05',

 

And we may very well finish higher this season and win a trophy! The table just proves where we finished.

[zigackly]

City, Spurs and Villa are completely and utterly shit. Not one of them is good enough to play in the Champions League.

 

Sadly we are even shitter.

 

Not sure how a trophy is relevant to a discussion about our league season, but it may have escaped your notice we won some kind of minor gong in 05 too.

[goatboy59]

Just cos Ged failed in 03/04 after the previous failure, it doesnt mean Rafa will.

 

 

That's absolutely how I see it too. Personally I think it would improve but not enough to get us close to challenging. I also think Aquilani has put a massive dent in the desire to give Rafa more money, should there actually be any (no CL funds, that's almost certain now).

 

But we have pretty much followed the Mancs' timeline during their title drought.

 

Firstly you get the thoroughly impatient 'We are wonderful and you cannot serve up this slop to US' attitude that got McGuiness and O'Farrell the boot (Souness)

 

We have no match for Docherty of course!

 

Then the 'well we need a bit of stability and patience but not too much' angle (Docherty Sexton/Evans and Houllier)

 

Now the impatience has crept in because we saw how his predecessors took things so far backwards in their 'extra' time that we want to nip it in the bud before it gets worse. And it's been so fucking long since we won it and the 'other lot' are starting to seriously take the piss now.

 

How wonderful if Rafa was our Fergie, and we just had to blot out the loud loud cries for dismissal, and Hicks and Gillett were our public fiasco Knighton type thing.

 

Do the Mancs sing 'Rafa must stay' these days? Probably.

 

It may be a case of history repeating. But that's what the heart says.

 

The head? Not so much.

[Whelan]

City, Villa and Spurs are much better than what we were up against in 05 much better!

[zigackly]

City, Villa and Spurs are much better than what we were up against in 05 much better!

 

If you like. Does that mean we're an awful lot worse then?

 

I personally think they've been fucking woeful, they've been dropping points left right and centre.

 

We've had to pretty much twist their arms to force them to take fourth spot off us.

[hamstrung]

We finished on 58 in 2005, so its a bit "better" than that, but its shades of shite really.

[zigackly]

I think absolute points comparisons between seasons tell you the square root of fuck all.

[hamstrung]

They tell you we got less points in 2005.

[zigackly]

They tell you we got less points in 2005.

 

But so did everybody else barring Chelsea. That just tells you the whole league was shitter.

 

Or better.

 

Or in fact, what does it tell you?

[Coro]

Not starting with Didi was a fucking fruitbat decision with Kaka playing. Bringing him on at half time was a no brainer. The only thing that kept me sane in the Ataturk at half time was watching Didi warm up.

 

First of all, fuck off with the Rafa hater bit.

 

Secondly I was absolutely furious with the dropping of Hamann, especially for a player who had done little or nothing to get us there and was always a fitness risk (he had cried off in Cardiff months earlier and cried off again in Cardiff a year later).

 

Thirdly, was it balls - or just trying to duplicate the semi triumph by grabbing a quick goal and clinging to it for dear life?

 

Seems the Rafalovers will defend anything no matter how clueless it undeniably is/was.

 

Didn't Hamann have a broken foot?

[Lucky Pierre]

Didn't Hamann have a broken foot?

Yep.

[zigackly]

Borke his toe during the game, I thought.

[Lucky Pierre]

Borke his toe during the game, I thought.

Phil Neal told my mate that's why he didn't start the game.