Substituting Torres; was it the correct decision?

[harryo63]

no. there was no way he was tired. he never lifted a leg for 60 minutes

[Captain]

It was madness, the league is the priority, he could have rested him against benfica so he would have been fresh for the next league game.

 

Quite the contrary, I think the Europa League is Rafa's priority now. We can either win that cup, or win fuck all.

[ottawa_lfc]

I didn't agree with the decision, but I don't know the physical condition of Torres. He needs protecting, but he certainly didn't look tired or 'exhausted'. He shook his head in surprise and disbelief as he was removed.

 

We actually perked up and had many clear cut chances after he came off. Is that due to him going off? We'll never know for sure.

 

That's why I voted yes. It seemed that B'ham actually stopped concentrating once Torres was off & we battered them. But as you say, whether that was due to Torres going off or would have happened anyway, we'll never know.

[halewood pete]

It is obvious he thinks he has more chance of progressing in the europa cup than getting fourth spot.It would appear to me he has given up on fourth.,so much for his promises.

[Lunatic]

No.

[Kevin D]

It was silly on many levels but the most pertinent one is that we employ a system that is wholly dependant on one of two players pulling something out the bag. To take one of the those two off is to signifcantly lessen our chances of scoring.

 

We all know he had planned this decision well before the match started. This begs the question why not change the system,then? Why not use a more attacking and aggressive system from the off that would have allowed for the match to be over by the time Torres was subbed?

 

I think, again, we all know that answer. Rafa was satsfied with a point - that's not to say he wouldn't have welcomed the win, just that he was unprepared to take the necessary risk to get it - and wanted Torres fresh for Thursday. To those ends, it was a brilliant decision.

[JohnnyH]

I've calmed down since he actually did it, and now I don't know.

 

Torres was terrible during the game with a shite first touch and even worse positional sense. However, he is a player who can just make one bit of magic and maybe if he had the chances Ngog got, he may have scored them. Having said that when you look at some of his misses against Sunderland, this is far from certain as he looked very leggy and tired.

 

If it was me, I'd have left him on, but mainly because there was no one to bring on, as opposed to thje threat from Torres.

 

The one thing that makes me hold off saying he should have stayed on for certain is injury. If he was very tired and has any kind of a knock, then another 30 mins could have resutled in him been out for what's left of the season.

 

So, I suppose I would have left it on. But now I've calmed down I appreciate that it was not a cut and dried decision.

 

As each day goes though I wonder if Rafa himself has lost the will for the fight and is counting down the days.

[INTORRESTING]

Quite the contrary, I think the Europa League is Rafa's priority now. We can either win that cup, or win fuck all.

 

which is completely wrong, that trophy is no indication of improvement as a club. The league is what matters and it is very hard to win. I am not one who says rafa has to win a trophy to stay as for big english clubs there are only really two trophies you really go for. One is the hardest league in the world and the other is the cl which if rafa never got near it again he would still go down as one of the top cl managers

[laddo]

Bringing Ngog on was a good decision.

 

Bringing Ngog on for Torres was not.

 

Ngog should've replaced Kuyt or Benayoun then the chances are a chance would have fallen for Torres to bury.

[GJM]

After the game, McLeish was asked what he thought when Torres was bought off. His reply: 'Delighted!'

 

I don't think Benitez is a coward - quite the opposite - but I do think that he has not learned that sometimes you simply need to 100% play the game that you are currently playing, not the next one or the one after that.

 

He must have known that removing Torres and not winning the game - which looked the most likely outcome at that point - would result in much finger pointing in his direction. One can hardly call him cowardly. But he was wrong.

[Scooby Dudek]

Yes. However, I don't know all the facts so I may be wrong.

[Clark Westerfeld]

NO!

[kop]

I didn't agree at the time of the sub, but seeing the impact from N'Gog and looking back at Torres' impact in the 65 minutes he played then it appeared as a good sub afterall. Taking in concideration the important match on Thursday then I think it was the correct decision. Easy to say in hinsight though, I did not understand it when it happened.

[WaltonRed]

A big fat No from me.

 

If he's tired put N'gog up there with him to lesser the load on the kid and ensuring that you still have a good chance of winning the game.

 

Rafa's given up on 4th.

[Ted]

No.

[kop]

which is completely wrong, that trophy is no indication of improvement as a club. The league is what matters and it is very hard to win. I am not one who says rafa has to win a trophy to stay as for big english clubs there are only really two trophies you really go for. One is the hardest league in the world and the other is the cl which if rafa never got near it again he would still go down as one of the top cl managers

 

I would take a trophy over a 4th place in the league any day of the week.

[INTORRESTING]

I would take a trophy over a 4th place in the league any day of the week.

 

That's fine and i respect your view but that is not how football works anymore.

[WaltonRed]

It is how football works, it always has and it always will.

 

Its people like you who spread the myth that it doesnt and then people start to believe it and you accept 4th as success and low and behold you get 5th and 6th place finishes.

[Byrnie]

Emphatic no.

He is taking the piss out of us now.

[INTORRESTING]

It is how football works, it always has and it always will.

 

Its people like you who spread the myth that it doesnt and then people start to believe it and you accept 4th as success and low and behold you get 5th and 6th place finishes.

 

i don't see it as a success at all, i see 4th as the minimum acceptable finish.

 

The carling cup, fa cup and uefa cup are no signs of success imo. It is fine talking about existing to win trophies but there are only really two trophies that matter for us now and they are very very hard to come by.

 

A title challenge is better than winning one of the fa cup, carling or uefa cup.

[WaltonRed]

 

A title challenge is better than winning one of the fa cup, carling or uefa cup.

 

You can do both you know.

[Brownie]

i don't see it as a success at all, i see 4th as the minimum acceptable finish.

 

The carling cup, fa cup and uefa cup are no signs of success imo. It is fine talking about existing to win trophies but there are only really two trophies that matter for us now and they are very very hard to come by.

 

A title challenge is better than winning one of the fa cup, carling or uefa cup.

 

So you felt better watching Chelsea beat Everton in last seasons FA Cup final, rather than us beating West Ham in 2006 because last season we'd challenged for the title?

 

Give over.

[INTORRESTING]

You can do both you know.

 

of course but it's unlikely and you need an excellent squad, i would love to win them all but we should be concentrating on just the league if we ever really expect to win it, we are not good enough to go for multiple trophies imo. Look at the mancs, all those years of domination and it took them a hell of a long time to get the hang of european competition.

 

If you are close to being the best you are likely to end up with nothing at all like arsenal often do and have done in the past whereas we have managed to concentrate on one trophy with rafa and get by in the others and do the minimum when required but the league is too strong for that approach now

[INTORRESTING]

So you felt better watching Chelsea beat Everton in last seasons FA Cup final, rather than us beating West Ham in 2006 because last season we'd challenged for the title?

 

Give over.

 

of course not and i loved cardiff but you have to be realistic and when going for the title the other trophies hold less significance unless you have a fantastic squad. I am not saying i dont want success i am saying in today's world it is get in the cl for the money and try and win the cl and the league and anything else is a bonus as most clubs are unlikely to have the resources to go for the domestic cups too

[Antynwa]

No No, No No No No, No No No No, No No THERES NO LIMIT