Last night confirmed to me why rafa should leave

[Glen C]

good pass and move, good attacking play and we win comfortably. Once again when rafa has no choice he plays a attacking team and we win. It was the same as last season. We played poorly as rafa was being his cautious self and then when we had not other choice he let the players off the leash and we then destroyed madrid and the mancs. Same as this season, when left with no choice we play a attacking team and win. Unfortunately rafa looks like he will always be this way. Next season will be the same and when all is nearly lost we will start attacking again.

 

Im not trying to slag rafa off, nor will i be like some on here and say personal attacks about him. The man has done many good things for the club, and players like mascherano, reina, torres and alonso would never have been here if it wasnt for him. But i think and hope he leaves at the end of the season as he cautious nature will always hold us back.

[redrosetints]

Last night was about Agger, JOhnson, Aqulani, Torres and Gerrard at last being fit, and the those players having had a couple of games to get match fit and build up some understanding with their team mates.

 

Coming back, succesfully, from injury means a) getting fit b) playing games to get match fit and c) once match fit, the team gelling as a unit. All these things cant be rushed or done in an instant, they take time.

 

When 6 or 7 of your irst choice players are out, it means the whole side is constantly rebuilding, retuning and trying to come to terms with how each other plays. It leads to you looking disjointed, unable to string passes together and not bonding as a unit, which pretty much sums up our season.

 

Get them fit, keep them fit, let them learn together as a unit and they will perform.

[John101]

What are you on about?

 

That somehow Rafa had no choice and the team was somehow forced upon him, as with the tactics?

 

For one i'd hold off on the talk of free flowing attacking football. It was Portsmouth after all.

[El Rojo]

Until I see impressive performances from us against Lille and United, last night was all about us playing the worst team in the division and them making things very, very easy for us.

[Glen C]

Last night was about Agger, JOhnson, Aqulani, Torres and Gerrard at last being fit, and the those players having had a couple of games to get match fit and build up some understanding with their team mates.

 

Coming back, succesfully, from injury means a) getting fit b) playing games to get match fit and c) once match fit, the team gelling as a unit. All these things cant be rushed or done in an instant, they take time.

 

When 6 or 7 of your irst choice players are out, it means the whole side is constantly rebuilding, retuning and trying to come to terms with how each other plays. It leads to you looking disjointed, unable to string passes together and not bonding as a unit, which pretty much sums up our season.

 

Get them fit, keep them fit, let them learn together as a unit and they will perform.

 

so how come we are the only team that cant string passes together when we have injuries. Every team has injuries, but you dont see them playing the gash football that we do. This is just how we always will be under rafa. Last season was exactly the same until he had no choice but to go for it.

[Guest TK-421]

Another thread with an interesting and novel twist on the "sack Rafa" angle.

[Guest TK-421]

It's a simple game and Rafa overcomplicates it. You pass the ball to attacking players who done score goals and that.

[ZonkoVille77]

Until I see impressive performances from us against Lille and United, last night was all about us playing the worst team in the division and them making things very, very easy for us.

 

Exactly this.

[redrosetints]

so how come we are the only team that cant string passes together when we have injuries. Every team has injuries, but you dont see them playing the gash football that we do. This is just how we always will be under rafa. Last season was exactly the same until he had no choice but to go for it.

 

I agree, injuries are part and parcel of the game. UNited hae suffered with their defence this year, but crucially, only their defence. THeir midfield and striking options have been consistently available. Furthrmore, the nature of the Mancs defencsive injuries have meant that players have been out long term, therefore the new player in the role has had a chance to deputise and get inot the role, through continuity, building up an understanding with the players around him.

 

Our season has been different. We've had injuries to the defence, midfield and attack, so none of the side has been able to estbalish itself properly. Not only that but the nature of the injuries has meant that just as someone gets used to playing, they get injured again or their partner does.

 

At the back we've had Johnson, Carra, Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio out for small or large parts of the season. How many times have we been able to field Reina, Johnson, Carra, Agger and Aurelio ? Even Once ? Going from there, how often have we been able to field just 4 of those ? and going further how often have they had a consistent run of games to gel and bond as a defensive unit before another gets crocked again and we have to relearn the partnerships ? Look at Kyriakos, he came in, made a difference then got banned, so we had to change that again.

 

Apply that across the team for the season, with Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani, Benayoun, Reira injured or hurt and it really isnt hard to see why we have often played the way we have.

 

All of this affects your form and confidence and when your low on form confidence and your best players are injured, you are going to struggle.

 

THe best players are now fit, they are ready, they've had a couple of games to get properly match fit and up to speed and we saw last night glm,ipses of them starting to find each other again and build up the understandings/telepathy, that make passes go that split second faster, just quikly enough to split the defence and create a chance or a goal.

[Dicko]

[YOUTUBE]N-isGzfYUZ4[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

Brian: ...Will you please listen? I'm not the Messiah! Do you understand? Honestly!

Woman: Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!

Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right, I am the Messiah!

Crowd: He is! He is the Messiah!

Brian: Now fuck off!

[silence]

Arthur: How shall we fuck off, oh Lord?

[redrosetints]

If we'd had a change of manager over the weekend and that was his first game in charge I honestly think we'd be seeing and hearing lots of excited comments about a new dawn. I'd probably say they were being more than a bit over the top but it wouldn't surprise me to see it.

 

Indeed.

 

Those who want Rafa out say we should get more from the squad and yet the question this season would have been, would Hiddink/Jose/Capello got more froma team without Torres, Gerrard, Johnson, Benayoun, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Aquilani relying on Insua, Ngog, Lucas, Kyriakos etc ?

 

WE cant afford 20 10m pound players, so we have invested in quality over quantity and when that first choice 11 is fit and bedded in it will play good football, conversely, when they are injured and out of the game we are relying on cheaper squad fillers. Which is ok when you only need to fill in one or to posiitons, but 6 or 7 different ones, chanign each week, a totally different story.

[a stoner]

Last night just showed what we should be doing and nothing else. Yes it helps when you have all your key players fit, yes it helps when your playing the divisions whipping boys, but, we should be able to do better with the players coming in for the injuries and we should be playing more attacking tactics week in week out.

I agree with both sides on this, I just don't see us doing alot more than we have under Rafa.

[spider-neil]

Until I see impressive performances from us against Lille and United, last night was all about us playing the worst team in the division and them making things very, very easy for us.

 

to be fair liverpool have shown in the past when they attack they can batter some of the best teams in the world. real madrid and manu where on long unbeaten runs and liverpool took them to the cleaners.

[El Rojo]

to be fair liverpool have shown in the past when they attack they can batter some of the best teams in the world. real madrid and manu where on long unbeaten runs and liverpool took them to the cleaners.

 

Of course. Some lovely football last night but there are probably six or seven teams in the Championship who would have been more competitive than Portsmouth. I just hope it gives us the confidence to turn over Lille and United in the coming days.

 

We probably can't afford to lose on Sunday if we want to cling onto the vaguest hope of getting fourth.

[a stoner]

I agree, injuries are part and parcel of the game. UNited hae suffered with their defence this year, but crucially, only their defence. THeir midfield and striking options have been consistently available. Furthrmore, the nature of the Mancs defencsive injuries have meant that players have been out long term, therefore the new player in the role has had a chance to deputise and get inot the role, through continuity, building up an understanding with the players around him.

 

Our season has been different. We've had injuries to the defence, midfield and attack, so none of the side has been able to estbalish itself properly. Not only that but the nature of the injuries has meant that just as someone gets used to playing, they get injured again or their partner does.

 

At the back we've had Johnson, Carra, Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio out for small or large parts of the season. How many times have we been able to field Reina, Johnson, Carra, Agger and Aurelio ? Even Once ? Going from there, how often have we been able to field just 4 of those ? and going further how often have they had a consistent run of games to gel and bond as a defensive unit before another gets crocked again and we have to relearn the partnerships ? Look at Kyriakos, he came in, made a difference then got banned, so we had to change that again.

 

Apply that across the team for the season, with Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani, Benayoun, Reira injured or hurt and it really isnt hard to see why we have often played the way we have.

 

All of this affects your form and confidence and when your low on form confidence and your best players are injured, you are going to struggle.

 

THe best players are now fit, they are ready, they've had a couple of games to get properly match fit and up to speed and we saw last night glm,ipses of them starting to find each other again and build up the understandings/telepathy, that make passes go that split second faster, just quikly enough to split the defence and create a chance or a goal.

 

So your saying that our first team reserves are worse than most of the prem then? If so they shouldn't be playing for us and even when we have a fully fit squad Rafa still rotates so he thinks the team is good enough. Also why does he play Lucas so much when Lucas shows he isn't good enough most games.

Even if the squad on the pitch aren't the super first team they should at least be making a fight of it and not sitting back defending for all they are worth.

[chrisbonnie]

Last night was about Agger, JOhnson, Aqulani, Torres and Gerrard at last being fit, and the those players having had a couple of games to get match fit and build up some understanding with their team mates.

 

Coming back, succesfully, from injury means a) getting fit b) playing games to get match fit and c) once match fit, the team gelling as a unit. All these things cant be rushed or done in an instant, they take time.

 

When 6 or 7 of your irst choice players are out, it means the whole side is constantly rebuilding, retuning and trying to come to terms with how each other plays. It leads to you looking disjointed, unable to string passes together and not bonding as a unit, which pretty much sums up our season.

 

Get them fit, keep them fit, let them learn together as a unit and they will perform.

 

All fair points,

 

But im going to have to agree with Glen here, its a carbon copy of last season, when he's tap dancing on the trap door, pulls a starts playing the formation we've all been crying out for, for ages

 

I was delighted with the performance last night, but but disgusted that it took 17 defeats for Rafa to finally open his eyes and stop reading prozone

 

Last night confirmed to me, that his overly negative, revert back to type football is just nver going to win us the league

 

We cant just blame injuries on what is our current predicament, sure arseanl have basically played the whole season without a recognised striker, but they dont revert back to hoofing it,

 

Im sick of all this "victim fc" rubbish, we should have a way of playing the game, whether our first choice players are available or not

 

Excuse the typos, im doing this post on my phone

[Brownie]

I agree with El Rojo. Last night was brilliant and I really enjoyed it; they were shite though, and it will take much more than just one comfortable win against a poor team to turn things around.

 

As for the injuries argument; it's flawed at every level as you could list games where we've had our best players available, yet performed dreadfully, and you could also list games where our rivals have had their best players missing but still battered teams.

 

It's just another in a long line of poor excuses.

 

Aquilani has been ready to play for ages as well.

[Glen C]

I agree, injuries are part and parcel of the game. UNited hae suffered with their defence this year, but crucially, only their defence. THeir midfield and striking options have been consistently available. Furthrmore, the nature of the Mancs defencsive injuries have meant that players have been out long term, therefore the new player in the role has had a chance to deputise and get inot the role, through continuity, building up an understanding with the players around him.

 

Our season has been different. We've had injuries to the defence, midfield and attack, so none of the side has been able to estbalish itself properly. Not only that but the nature of the injuries has meant that just as someone gets used to playing, they get injured again or their partner does.

 

At the back we've had Johnson, Carra, Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio out for small or large parts of the season. How many times have we been able to field Reina, Johnson, Carra, Agger and Aurelio ? Even Once ? Going from there, how often have we been able to field just 4 of those ? and going further how often have they had a consistent run of games to gel and bond as a defensive unit before another gets crocked again and we have to relearn the partnerships ? Look at Kyriakos, he came in, made a difference then got banned, so we had to change that again.

 

Apply that across the team for the season, with Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani, Benayoun, Reira injured or hurt and it really isnt hard to see why we have often played the way we have.

 

All of this affects your form and confidence and when your low on form confidence and your best players are injured, you are going to struggle.

 

THe best players are now fit, they are ready, they've had a couple of games to get properly match fit and up to speed and we saw last night glm,ipses of them starting to find each other again and build up the understandings/telepathy, that make passes go that split second faster, just quikly enough to split the defence and create a chance or a goal.

 

i would agree with you if it was only this season it happened. But its not its every season since he has been here. When arsenal or the mancs have injuries, regardless of whether the players that come in are any good, they still play exactly the same. They dont all of a sudden play 8 defenders on the pitch against weak opposition and try to nick a goal. I just think its down to the mentality of the manager. Rafa would rather play safe and get a draw, whereas other top managers would rather gamble and go for win.

 

I do like rafa and think he has done great for this club, but i just think his cautious nature will always hold us back.

[NelCarra]

At the end of the day Rafa took the shackles off, you can say this player is fit now etc, but he told the team to attack, rafa sets the team out for what he wants. He's shot himself in the foot and it's his own fault he wont be here after the summer

[kopite1989]

to be fair liverpool have shown in the past when they attack they can batter some of the best teams in the world. real madrid and manu where on long unbeaten runs and liverpool took them to the cleaners.

 

True, but I think that's what we have all found so annoying! Rafa is far too defensive. We have 9 games left or so... We haven't got fuck all to Lose execpt 4th which is slipping away, defensive hasn't worked all season ( neither has Lucas) so keep him off, keep just going all out attack and see what happands. Like you said mate we destroyed teams last season doing that! Not to mention I don't know about all you but, if we did that and we still lost I'd at least feel like we have it a go, which has been missing alot recently

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I agree with El Rojo. Last night was brilliant and I really enjoyed it; they were shite though, and it will take much more than just one comfortable win against a poor team to turn things around.

 

As for the injuries argument; it's flawed at every level as you could list games where we've had our best players available, yet performed dreadfully, and you could also list games where our rivals have had their best players missing but still battered teams.

 

It's just another in a long line of poor excuses.

 

Aquilani has been ready to play for ages as well.

 

Agree with this. Aqualini has been fit for ages and the list of players mentioned as being injured have not all been injured at the same time. Rafa went for it last night, the fact Lucas and Kuyt were dropped for a more attacking option is proof of this.

[Glen C]

I agree, injuries are part and parcel of the game. UNited hae suffered with their defence this year, but crucially, only their defence. THeir midfield and striking options have been consistently available. Furthrmore, the nature of the Mancs defencsive injuries have meant that players have been out long term, therefore the new player in the role has had a chance to deputise and get inot the role, through continuity, building up an understanding with the players around him.

 

Our season has been different. We've had injuries to the defence, midfield and attack, so none of the side has been able to estbalish itself properly. Not only that but the nature of the injuries has meant that just as someone gets used to playing, they get injured again or their partner does.

 

At the back we've had Johnson, Carra, Skrtel, Agger and Aurelio out for small or large parts of the season. How many times have we been able to field Reina, Johnson, Carra, Agger and Aurelio ? Even Once ? Going from there, how often have we been able to field just 4 of those ? and going further how often have they had a consistent run of games to gel and bond as a defensive unit before another gets crocked again and we have to relearn the partnerships ? Look at Kyriakos, he came in, made a difference then got banned, so we had to change that again.

 

Apply that across the team for the season, with Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani, Benayoun, Reira injured or hurt and it really isnt hard to see why we have often played the way we have.

 

All of this affects your form and confidence and when your low on form confidence and your best players are injured, you are going to struggle.

 

THe best players are now fit, they are ready, they've had a couple of games to get properly match fit and up to speed and we saw last night glm,ipses of them starting to find each other again and build up the understandings/telepathy, that make passes go that split second faster, just quikly enough to split the defence and create a chance or a goal.

 

i would agree with you if it was only this season it happened. But its not its every season since he has been here. When arsenal or the mancs have injuries, regardless of whether the players that come in are any good, they still play exactly the same. They dont all of a sudden play 8 defenders on the pitch against weak opposition and try to nick a goal. I just think its down to the mentality of the manager. Rafa would rather play safe and get a draw, whereas other top managers would rather gamble and go for win.

 

I do like rafa and think he has done great for this club, but i just think his cautious nature will always hold us back.

[Sangria]

It was just nice to enjoy the game and some more of the same please.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

I do like rafa and think he has done great for this club, but i just think his cautious nature will always hold us back.

 

To be fair, we scored more than anybody in the league last season and more than anybody in all competitions combined the year before. All this 'defensive tactics holding us back' is fair in one way, but in another it isn't the main problem.

[redrosetints]

So your saying that our first team reserves are worse than most of the prem then? If so they shouldn't be playing for us and even when we have a fully fit squad Rafa still rotates so he thinks the team is good enough. Also why does he play Lucas so much when Lucas shows he isn't good enough most games.

Even if the squad on the pitch aren't the super first team they should at least be making a fight of it and not sitting back defending for all they are worth.

 

Some are, but its about the collective over the indiviudal.

 

If an average group of 11 players, play together for 38 games, I expect them to be better than a team who has some great players wbut who play together less frequently. Its why county teams beat the touring austrlains in Cricket, or local sides beat the LIons in Rugby or why South Korea, who were trained and played as a club unit under Hiddink in 2002 were able do so well against much more talented teams.

 

Look at Birmingham, they went on a run recently, 12 games where they didnt change a player and they saw a very good run of results at the same time. Are their players better than ours ? No, not individually but as a collective, yes, they were, because those players had played 12 consecutive game snext to each other, learning where each other will run pass shoot, each others weaknesses and strenghts, building up the sorts of telepathy and understandings that make the difference.

 

Our side, week in week out was changing.

 

Its exactly the same as those who argued against rotation. THe press, forumites continued to say we were weaker than the sum of our parts, because we kept rotating players and they didnt get chance to build up understanidngs. THis season we've 'rotated' more than ever, twice as much as usual, through necessity not choice and yet I havent seen many forumites or indeed the press pick up on how this, like over roation, can affect our performances.

 

If you believe that rotation held us back in past years, then you already know why we've had trouble this season, onl;y this year its been forced on us due to injuries, instead of Rafa choosig to rotate.