Rhone group in talks over 100mil takeover.

[coop]

The only way to sell the club on for sizable profit is with the new stadium.

 

Depends.

 

As an equity firm and potentially 40% owners of the club they can take a dividends out of the club and make their profit that way.

[TaksimRakiClub]

Depends.

 

As an equity firm and potentially 40% owners of the club they can take a dividends out of the club and make their profit that way.

 

They can only take dividends out of profits and distributable reserves though and given the interest we're paying we're not making any profits.

 

And taking a dividend out of reserves doesn't bear thinking about.

[aws]

I think the stadium is more likely to get built than not if we do get new investment because most of the risk will get pushed onto the Banks funding the development and the owners will be able to sell at a profit a lot sooner.

[coop]

Because they will be able to get a loan on it, and its how they will make money, That's my view and I'm more inclined to go with them building it than not, and I've said months ago the plans are back out to begin in September.

 

I agree Al regards building the stadium will make money but the impression i got from reading about the Rhone offer is that they don't want anything to do with debt.

 

It seems they are prepared to pay the £100m in cash so the club is not responsible for paying anything back on that.

 

The way they can potentially make money is the fact that instead of paying £30m per year interest we would be paying £15-20m so the club has £10-15m per year extra available.

 

Add to that we have the new sponsorship deal with Standard Chartered kicking in next season so therefore thats another £20m per season into the coffers.

 

They would be able to take 40% of any profit made therefore they can make their money over the course of what they deem suitable then sell us on.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Please delete me, let me go.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Numero Veinticinco
Delete please.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I agree with Tony B's article, just one thing though, If were not happy with Right Wing people, lets hope we never get DIC, You get your hand chopped off for kissing your bird in Dubai.

 

Other than that not being true, of course, I wouldn't be shocked if DIC are waiting for their chance.

[coop]

Sorry but they would build a stadium and will get a mortgage on it, I just hope its over 20+ years.

 

Hopefully so Al although i have yet to read anything from Rhone regards them getting involved with putting the money up for the stadium.

[Guest The Chimp]

One thing I just don't get. How does building a stadium make us a more attractive proposition to buyers? By this I mean, whose going to buy us when the stadiums built (if that's twit and twats plan)? The price will go up - making it even longer before any investor sees returns. So, if the paln is to build the stadium and sell on for a profit, who'd going to come in (in the future) that can't be bothered now? It would make much more sense surely, to buy now and reap the rewards later? If you build the stadium by default wouldn't you have to be in it for the long run? I look at the Mancs and I can't see how anyone buying them out is ever going to see a return on their investment.

[aws]

One thing I just don't get. How does building a stadium make us a more attractive proposition to buyers? By this I mean, whose going to buy us when the stadiums built (if that's twit and twats plan)? The price will go up - making it even longer before any investor sees returns. So, if the paln is to build the stadium and sell on for a profit, who'd going to come in (in the future) that can't be bothered now? It would make much more sense surely, to buy now and reap the rewards later? If you build the stadium by default wouldn't you have to be in it for the long run? I look at the Mancs and I can't see how anyone buying them out is ever going to see a return on their investment.

 

The theory is you borrow £400m over 10 years and pay back (say) £25m interest every year. If the increased revenue is (say) £50m every year then the club is worth a lot more because the club now owns a stadium which will turn out a big profit indefinitely. At the end of the ten years you can always re-finance the £400m for another 10 years.

[Shreddy]

Revealed: the motives driving Rhone’s “non-billionaire” Liverpool bidders

By Nick Harris

 

17 March 2010

 

The men behind the private equity firm bidding for a stake in Liverpool are not billionaires, and are not intending to invest their own fortunes, such as they are, in the deal, sportingintelligence can reveal.

 

The Rhone Group, an international company with offices in New York, London, Paris and Milan, tabled a bid at the weekend for somewhere* between £100m and £118.5m for an initial 40 per cent stake in Liverpool.

 

The firm was founded in 1997 by two US bankers, Robert Agostinelli and Steven Langman, and it has been widely – and erroneously – reported that they are billionaires with £3bn to spend who will pour massive resources into Liverpool if their investment plan comes to fruition. That is untrue.

 

As the Spirit of Shankly fans’ group has today written to Liverpool’s managing director, Christian Purslow, asking for clarification of Rhone’s “bid”, sportingintelligence can reveal:

 

•Agostinelli and Langman are “far from billionaires”, and neither will invest “anything, or anything significant” from their own funds into Liverpool.

 

•The London arm of the Rhone Group (Rhone Group LLP) had an annual turnover in its most recent accounts of just £5.9m. While the firm “manages” total funds of £3bn globally, the emphasis is on “manages.” Rhone doesn’t “own” this money; it takes fees from moving its clients’ cash between investments.

 

•Rhone’s offer for a stake in Liverpool has been made on behalf of a group of an as-yet unnamed investors who have other funds under management by Rhone in a variety of other ventures.

 

•These are “disinterested” parties who believe that injecting their cash into Liverpool now, when it is a “distressed” business, will lead to a cash profit in the medium term. In other words, they want to invest when Liverpool is vulnerable, help to stabilise the finances and create an environment in which commercial lenders will fund the new stadium, then get out at a profit. Nobody disputes Liverpool’s massive potential as a money-making machine when the new stadium is built. Getting there is the hard part, and Rhone’s executives see an upside in helping.

 

•Rhone’s investors are looking at Liverpool as “just another business deal”. Rhone’s other recent investments have included, for example, financing for the clothes firm Quiksilver, putting money into the toy chain Early Learning Centre, and part-owning the aluminium company Almatis, which Rhone then sold, incidentally, to a former Liverpool suitor, Dubai International Capital.

 

•Rhone’s offer is understood to be contingent on taking a “controlling” interest, stipulated contractually, even it takes less than a 51 per cent stake. “Leaving Hicks and Gillett with 60 per cent, or rather 60 per cent of voting rights, makes no sense” one source says.

 

•Rhone are understood to acknowledge privately that their offer will be unattractive to Hicks and Gillett because it offers them no cash, just a dilution of their shareholding. Equally, they know it is the only concrete offer Purslow has to date. As sportingintelligence has already reported, Liverpool’s co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett think Rhone’s offer is too low. Sportingintelligence understands that Gillett at least is willing to walk away from Liverpool altogether now, but only at the right price.

 

•The Rhone Group believes Hicks and Gillett are under more urgent imminent pressure to repay a chunk of Liverpool’s £237m debts to RBS than is widely believed. RBS has demanded that £100m be repaid no later than July. Some of that is actually due sooner, Rhone believes, although it is generally acknowledged RBS would rather allow some leeway than seize control of Liverpool.

 

•Agostinelli, whose ex-wife Mathilde is a senior executive at Prada, is an acquaintance of French president Nicolas Sarkozy, although only Mathidle, now remarried, and not Agostinelli, went to Sarkozy’s wedding to Carla Bruni. Much has been made of Agostinelli’s other “links” to politicians, but while both he and Langman have track records of political donations to Republicans, including to John McCain, it is not thought he is especially close to fellow long-term Republican Hicks.

 

A spokesman for the SoS group said today: “There is genuine concern amongst fans, that whilst we need this new investment, it may not be for the greater good of the football club. Tom Hicks and George Gillett made all the right noises and said all the right things when they took over and look how that has turned out. Fans have learnt from the past, and any new investors will come under closer scrutiny from those who genuinely care about the football club. We don’t want to be jumping from the frying pan, into the fire.

 

“We are left wondering just what the Rhone group’s intentions would be. In the desperation for the club’s management to reduce the debt, we cannot do this without any consideration to what it might mean to the future of our football club. A quick look into Rhone’s previous dealings leaves fans worried at just what they want from LFC, with a worry that it would be a chance for them to make a quick profit – a profit that would be extracted from the club, reducing the opportunity to invest on the pitch. Until fans have their issues listened to and questions answered, any investment will be treated with scepticism and a great deal of trepidation.”

 

.

 

*The amount of the bid differs depending on which source you believe: a variety of people at Anfield including managing director Christian Purslow; Liverpool’s owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett directly, and indirectly via numerous PRs; bankers with inside knowledge of the search for funds; and other City figures connected to one or more of the above.

 

Revealed: the motives driving Rhone’s “non-billionaire” Liverpool bidders « Sporting Intelligence

[coop]

They dont have to put money up to build it coop, they could get a mortgage against earnings like Arsenal have.

 

They could mate.

 

Like you say get a mortage for the stadium then sell their stake once its built.

[shaunstrudwick]

so is this Rhone 40% deal looking likely then?

 

i thought it had been dismissed?

 

reading the above peice they just sound like GG&TH - where is the funding for new players coming from this summer if we miss out on CL footy?

[aws]

so is this Rhone 40% deal looking likely then?

 

i thought it had been dismissed?

 

reading the above peice they just sound like GG&TH - where is the funding for new players coming from this summer if we miss out on CL footy?

 

From the sale of Mascherano or Gerrard.

[Shreddy]

From the sale of Mascherano or Gerrard.

You forgot Torres to :P

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Revealed: the motives driving Rhone’s “non-billionaire” Liverpool bidders

By Nick Harris

 

17 March 2010

 

The men behind the private equity firm bidding for a stake in Liverpool are not billionaires, and are not intending to invest their own fortunes, such as they are, in the deal, sportingintelligence can reveal.

 

 

Revealed: the motives driving Rhone’s “non-billionaire” Liverpool bidders « Sporting Intelligence

 

Where have I heard that before?

[Dirk]

Fantastic work, Christian.

[mattyq]

They're just a hedge fund. That's what hedge funds do, isn't it?

That article was stating the bleedin obvious.

In for a year or 2; get the stadium built or at least make a start on it and sell for a decent profit.

[Kopite Pete]

Other than that not being true, of course, I wouldn't be shocked if DIC are waiting for their chance.

 

That would be nice, although I feel that ship has since sailed.

[WaltonRed]

Al I think you and Mick need to pay Mr.Moores another visit.

 

We dont want this deal, if he speaks out he might be able to scupper it.

[Dirk]

That's what Torres thinks as well.

 

That it's a job well done? I was taking the piss.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

That's what Torres thinks as well.

 

 

To be fair Al, Torres is paid for his ability at kicking a bit of leather, not his business acumen

[Trucker Paddy]

OK in laymans terms, if Rhone own 40 percent and the 2 pigs own 60%, do we still pay the intrest on the pigs 60% and not Rhones 40% and if we do why the fuck would the other partner agree to that.

[coop]

OK in laymans terms, if Rhone own 40 percent and the 2 pigs own 60%, do we still pay the intrest on the pigs 60% and not Rhones 40% and if we do why the fuck would the other partner agree to that.

 

From reading the press reports it seems that Rhone are wanting to give Hicks and Gillett £100m cash in exchange for 40% of the club.

 

That money would then be used to lower the debt owed to £137m.

 

That £137m would be the only amount we would be paying interest on.

 

There does however appear to be some confusion exactly what the percentage of ownership Rhone want.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

He is making a comment about what he see's everyday or hears, You said last week CP should get on with his job and stop bouncing around Melwood in a tracksuit.

 

Bit rich to have a pop at Torres opinion.

 

How could that possibly be construed as having a pop at him?

[The Party Boy]

So is there even a chance of this going ahead or is it just getting publicity because it's the first formal offer?

 

What's Mourinho's political leanings?