Should benayoun have Dived ?

[Guest ShoePiss]

If he'd gone down I personally don't think it would have been a dive. The challenge was more than enough to knock him off his balance, thus it's a foul.

 

Unfortunately, in modern football and with refereeing the way it is, you sometimes have to make their mind up for them to get a decision.

 

I hate diving when there is no contact, it's despicable, but if you're tripped and lose balance then you're well within your right to go down.

 

This is not a hypothetical situation here, the tackle wasn't enough to bring him down. The critical evidence here is that he stayed on his feet.

 

You know when you here someone say or you think to yourself "he went down easily there" that's a fucking dive regardless of the tackle being a foul or not.

[Brownie]

I disagree; if you've been clipped and it knocks you off your balance, firstly anywhere else on the pitch the referee blows up for a free kick. Say Benayoun got tripped as he did and there was a covering defender who was able to clear the ball because of the momentum Yossi lost, he didn't go down so therefore it's still not a foul?

 

Wrong. He was impeded, it knocked him off his balance enough for him to lose momentum and potentially the cruical milisecond where he may have gained a significant advantage, therefore it's a foul. You don't have to be knocked to the floor to be fouled.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I disagree; if you've been clipped and it knocks you off your balance, firstly anywhere else on the pitch the referee blows up for a free kick. Say Benayoun got tripped as he did and there was a covering defender who was able to clear the ball because of the momentum Yossi lost, he didn't go down so therefore it's still not a foul?

 

Wrong. He was impeded, it knocked him off his balance enough for him to lose momentum and potentially the cruical milisecond where he may have gained a significant advantage, therefore it's a foul. You don't have to be knocked to the floor to be fouled.

 

It was a foul, that's not what is being debated here and it's not what I've disagreed with you on.

 

You and a few others are saying that because a foul has been committed it cannot be a dive, well it can and you're wrong.

[Brownie]

It was a foul, that's not what is being debated here and it's not what I've disagreed with you on.

 

You and a few others are saying that because a foul has been committed it cannot be a dive, well it can and you're wrong.

 

Well it depends on your definition of a dive then doesn't it? You clearly see a dive as being someone who doesn't do everything within their power to stay on their feet when clearly knocked off balance.

 

I see it as going to ground when no contact is made.

 

Yossi didn't need to do a triple twist with pike, just drop to his knees and that would have been fair, in my view.

[Original202]

Well it wouldn't have been a dive now would it? Maybe it's just me, but a dive in my eyes is when a player goes down when he hasn't been touched. I've absolutely no fucking problem with a player selling what was a fucking foul in the first place.

 

So,m go down, get the pen, win your team the three points.

 

Gerrard would have gone down, and he knows how to do it properly, i'm not sure Yossi does though only because you don't see him going down easy.

 

I wouldn't say Gerrard knows how to do it properly. The way he throws himself to the ground at every opportunity is embarrassing, particularly when we're losing or chasing a late winner.

 

He does occaisonaly make sure he wins a freekick when he genuinly being fouled, in the same way Hamann used to do, but his arms in the air and knees bent act is becoming a bit of a joke.

[Original202]

Brownie's right. Remember the penalty at Sheff Utd in 2006? Gerrard wasn't touched but the tackle was enough to make him have to hurdle the tackle and lose his balance.

[Jose Jones]

That Gerrard one was a dive as well.

You're only going to really have the fundamentalists complaining about it, because we all want to win at the end of the day, and turn a bit of a blind eye when one of our players does it.

Also that pissed off Colin Wanker so it couldn't have been too bad.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Well it depends on your definition of a dive then doesn't it? You clearly see a dive as being someone who doesn't do everything within their power to stay on their feet when clearly knocked off balance.

 

I see it as going to ground when no contact is made.

 

Yossi didn't need to do a triple twist with pike, just drop to his knees and that would have been fair, in my view.

 

I see it as play acting, cheating etc.

[Brownie]

I see it as play acting, cheating etc.

 

How is it cheating to drop to your knees when you know that staying on your feet will almost certainly mean that a referee won't award you a penalty when you've been clearly fouled?

 

If Yossi had dropped to his knees yesterday and got the penalty, not one person in the media or anyone I know would have called him a cheat.

 

They'd have said, 'good on him, he was fouled and the referee would have ignored it if he'd struggled just to stay on his feet'.

 

If someone tries to win the ball, misses it and therefore clips you so much so that you clearly lose balance, it's a penalty. If you live in a world where you know that you aren't going to get the penalty by staying on your feet and continuing, then you have to adapt to it.

 

That doesn't mean you can start throwing yourself to the ground when not touched, as that's despicable, it's just being able to adapt yourself to the situation or surroundings by being clever.

[G Richards]

I just voted and made it 32-31 in favour of staying on his feet. I am surprised so many voted that he should have dived as we needed the three points.

 

I could make a case for him going down, especially as his quick feet made the defender try to tackle him and he has already shifted the ball. So, that is skill on Yossi's part. However, I don't like the way the game is going with more and more players 'drawing' the foul (sort of like basketball).

 

I prefer an honest game and the ref to make the decisions he feels to needs to make based on what he sees. He will naturally make mistakes, but these will be much less frequent if the players are honest.

[Original202]

Honesty in football died a long time ago, but I agree with you.

[SiliconeSoul]

I'm getting to the stage where I'm just not arsed anymore as long as we get the win. We've got this purist image of ourselves, but I'm not sure it's got any basis in reality. If it has it's stuck in the 70's in a very different era. It does sting a bit a though, maybe that's pride fucking with me.

[Guest ShoePiss]

How is it cheating to drop to your knees when you know that staying on your feet will almost certainly mean that a referee won't award you a penalty when you've been clearly fouled?

 

If Yossi had dropped to his knees yesterday and got the penalty, not one person in the media or anyone I know would have called him a cheat.

 

They'd have said, 'good on him, he was fouled and the referee would have ignored it if he'd struggled just to stay on his feet'.

 

If someone tries to win the ball, misses it and therefore clips you so much so that you clearly lose balance, it's a penalty. If you live in a world where you know that you aren't going to get the penalty by staying on your feet and continuing, then you have to adapt to it.

 

That doesn't mean you can start throwing yourself to the ground when not touched, as that's despicable, it's just being able to adapt yourself to the situation or surroundings by being clever.

 

Because it's making out a situation is something it isn't. It's making a foul look like assault, it could be the different between a ref having a word with a player and a red card. It's cheating.

 

As I've said earlier in the thread players shouldn't have to go to ground for a penalty to be given. I also said I understand why they do; doesn't mean I have to agree with it or stop thinking the players doing it are shithouses.

[The Dude Abides]

Of course it's still a dive.

 

Still a "dive", i wouldn't call it cheating though.

[Guest The Big Green Bastard]

Diving is for cheating cunts. Benny is not a cunt.

[coachpotato]

Having witnessed first hand Waltons performance yesterday, I would fully have expected him to book, and thus send off, Yossi, had he gone over, seeing as it was pretty much the end of the game and his only other option would've been to award a penalty.

He was in a perfect position to see that Yossi was caught, and that he then tried to cross a ball off balance because he had been caught, there was plainly no advantage in that and he should have blown anyway.

He decided not to see it.

Adam Johnson was Ronaldoesque yesterday, he hit the floor half a dozen times and Walton, even after telling him to get up and carry on didn't book him.

I'd like to think that Yossi's honesty will stand us in good stead but i won't hold my breath, especially after N'gogs dive against Birmingham and the shit we took for that.

[Brownie]

Because it's making out a situation is something it isn't. It's making a foul look like assault, it could be the different between a ref having a word with a player and a red card. It's cheating.

 

As I've said earlier in the thread players shouldn't have to go to ground for a penalty to be given. I also said I understand why they do; doesn't mean I have to agree with it or stop thinking the players doing it are shithouses.

 

Well we're probably agreeing in a roundabout way. If you go down and make it look as though you've been assaulted, then you deserve all the criticism you'll get because that's diving. If you've been tripped however, and you've lost any advantage you had then you have every right to feel aggreived and thus either stop or drop to your knees to get what you deserve.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I voted no as diving is a twats game and we wouldn't like a penalty given against us in those circumstances.

 

Having said that, if he had gone down it wouldn't have been a dive as such. He managed to stay on his feet as he saw a chance to create something in the space and good on him for his determination and honesty. If he had gone down it would have been the momentum which took him down and not a dive.

[Scouse_Datcha]

The ref not doing his job properly and therefore not awarding the foul is one factor in encouraging players to dive in the first place. He was clipped and therefore impeded which means he was fouled whether he stays up or not but, unfortunately, there's no reward for honesty in situations like this. He was right to stay on his feet, it's just a shame the ref yesterday was shit.

 

Seconded.

Im glad he stayed on his feet and I hope he can show SG how to not go down. SG dives every games now. I dont like it at all.

[Thants]

No. The ref would have probably booked Torres again.

[ZonkoVille77]

No - diving is just cheating and should not be encouraged.

[coop]

If Yossi went down whose to say that the ref would have given a penalty as he was pretty useless all the game.

 

Yossi did the right thing staying on his feet and trying to get a cross in which could have resulted in a goal.

[redrosetints]

How is it cheating to drop to your knees when you know that staying on your feet will almost certainly mean that a referee won't award you a penalty when you've been clearly fouled?

 

If Yossi had dropped to his knees yesterday and got the penalty, not one person in the media or anyone I know would have called him a cheat.

 

They'd have said, 'good on him, he was fouled and the referee would have ignored it if he'd struggled just to stay on his feet'.

 

If someone tries to win the ball, misses it and therefore clips you so much so that you clearly lose balance, it's a penalty. If you live in a world where you know that you aren't going to get the penalty by staying on your feet and continuing, then you have to adapt to it.

 

That doesn't mean you can start throwing yourself to the ground when not touched, as that's despicable, it's just being able to adapt yourself to the situation or surroundings by being clever.

 

I agree with you Ian, but dont be so naive as to think the media would have said it was right. They'd have started calling us cheats again, like after the Ngog thing, when Carsley went to ground in the box and didnt touch the ball, just as gerrard did vs Sheff a few years ago.

 

Lets face it none of the media called Fabregas a cheat for a clear and deliberate handball the other week.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Yes.

 

Fuck relying on referees.

 

They won't give a penalty unless the player ends up on the deck. They encourage cheating, and unfortunately until they change their attitude, we must cheat.

[piscinin]

Yes.

 

Fuck relying on referees.

 

They won't give a penalty unless the player ends up on the deck. They encourage cheating, and unfortunately until they change their attitude, we must cheat.

 

That alas is the long and short of it.