Graeme Souness the Player

[redheart]

 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

31 minutes ago, The Guest said:

It’s almost like people have just forgot how good Gerrard was.

Or people don’t know how good Souness was. They were both World Class.

Souness stood out in a great side Gerrard was head and shoulders in mainly average sides, although we had some good sides during his period. Gerrard would have also been great in our old sides, him and Souness would have been untouchable in midfield. We were lucky to have both.

[stringvest]

17 hours ago, The Guest said:

I was only born in 85 and I like him but I’m not having it that he was a better player than Gerrard.

He was a better midfielder.  Definitely.  

[Curly]

2 hours ago, The Guest said:

It’s almost like people have just forgot how good Gerrard was.

Completely agree with this mate. Since he’s retired his stock seems to have dropped with our fans considerably.

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, belarus said:

Completely agree with this mate. Since he’s retired his stock seems to have dropped with our fans considerably.

I don't think that's true.  Everyone remembers just how brilliant Gerrard was. We all remember how he won games on his own.  He could do everything.  But, but - he could not dominate a midfield area week in week out like Souness. Having them both in one team would have been fantastic. 

[Tony Moanero]

The player that people, younger people, don’t realise just how good he was is Kenny Dalglish.

[aws]

24 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I don't think that's true.  Everyone remembers just how brilliant Gerrard was. We all remember how he won games on his own.  He could do everything.  But, but - he could not dominate a midfield area week in week out like Souness. Having them both in one team would have been fantastic. 

Agree with this. If I had to choose between them to win a Cup final I would probably go for Gerrard but to win a league campaign it would definitely be Souness. 

[Curly]

30 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I don't think that's true.  Everyone remembers just how brilliant Gerrard was. We all remember how he won games on his own.  He could do everything.  But, but - he could not dominate a midfield area week in week out like Souness. Having them both in one team would have been fantastic. 

Fair enough. I’m not talking exclusively in relation to the Souness debate, just a general feeling I get. 
 

Perhaps it’s because it was fairly recent and we’ve gone on to being successful, so don’t pine for the old times as much. It could just be that he’s my favourite ever player and will always be. Totally untouchable. My interest in the game has taken dips for various reasons over the last decade or so, with the final and biggest reason being when Gerrard finished here.

 

I’m a few years younger than him, so have watched his career from a child, loving and aspiring to be the tough tackling and dynamic local lad he was when he burst onto the scene. He literally lived my childhood dream out in full and totally appreciated it and applied himself to it as well.

 

I’m too young for Souness days, but what I will say is that from all the players I’ve seen, if you had to pick one player to fill all 10 outfield slots in a team, I would pick Stevie all day long. A team of Gerrards beats a team of any other player.

[Johnlj]

The problem is when people haven't seen a player play. Gerrard was awesome, Souness had that bit extra to completely dominate the midfield. Gerrards versatility was much better. But as a midfielder Souness was heads above. 

 

It's like people these days that says Messi and false Ronaldo are better than Fatnaldo or Maradona. You only have to have watched the latters to laugh at any suggestion of the first two gettting anywhere near them. Diego got slaughtered game in game out and got up and ran by six people and banged it top bins without a care in the world. Fatnaldo same thing even 102 kilos overweight he'd still do it.

 

The other two gets protected game in game out, if someone just blows on them it's a freekick. They are the best of their generation and probably the best we'll see for a long long time. But they don't get near Fatty 1 and Fatty 2.

[The Guest]

You’re all mad.  “Dominating midfield” “controlling games” “dictating play” they all mean fuck all.  Gerrard singlehandedly won games all over the pitch and it was near enough every week.  He had some great players around him at times but he consistently had fuck up merchants around him who he needed to pull out the fire.  He had to train with players well below his level every fucking day and still turned up every weekend and wiped the floor with any midfielder he came up against.  He had every asset to his game and he didn’t just epitomise the box to box midfielder he rewrote it because there had never been a player like him before and the pigeon holing of midfielders since about halfway through his career means we won’t see one again.

 

As a Liverpool fan you should know all this but there seems to be some sort of weird problem loads of our fans have with him.  He’s the best player we’ve ever had.

[lifetime fan]

1 minute ago, The Guest said:

You’re all mad.  “Dominating midfield” “controlling games” “dictating play” they all mean fuck all.  Gerrard singlehandedly won games all over the pitch and it was near enough every week.  He had some great players around him at times but he consistently had fuck up merchants around him who he needed to pull out the fire.  He had to train with players well below his level every fucking day and still turned up every weekend and wiped the floor with any midfielder he came up against.  He had every asset to his game and he didn’t just epitomise the box to box midfielder he rewrote it because there had never been a player like him before and the pigeon holing of midfielders since about halfway through his career means we won’t see one again.

 

As a Liverpool fan you should know all this but there seems to be some sort of weird problem loads of our fans have with him.  He’s the best player we’ve ever had.

You’ve already said you haven’t seen Souness play.
But you must be right???

[Johnlj]

10 minutes ago, The Guest said:

You’re all mad.  “Dominating midfield” “controlling games” “dictating play” they all mean fuck all.  Gerrard singlehandedly won games all over the pitch and it was near enough every week.  He had some great players around him at times but he consistently had fuck up merchants around him who he needed to pull out the fire.  He had to train with players well below his level every fucking day and still turned up every weekend and wiped the floor with any midfielder he came up against.  He had every asset to his game and he didn’t just epitomise the box to box midfielder he rewrote it because there had never been a player like him before and the pigeon holing of midfielders since about halfway through his career means we won’t see one again.

 

As a Liverpool fan you should know all this but there seems to be some sort of weird problem loads of our fans have with him.  He’s the best player we’ve ever had.

Yes, yes stop trolling now. You clearly haven't seen Souness play. Gerrard was world class, but Souness was just unbelievable. Those two in midfield though would have been a sight to behold. 

 

But ofcourse you can only draw conclussions from what you've seen. Whenever I talk to my dad about Maradona or Fatnaldo, he'll just say Pelé or Garrincha and as I've never seen them play I can only think he is bonkers.

[JohnnyH]

Gerrard is the most complete player I've ever seen. In his pomp I'd be absolutely confident of an excellent performance were he asked to play centre back or centre forward.  He could literally do it all.

 

However, it's hard to explain just how good Souness was in midfield unless you got to see him week in and week out.  He was exemplary in every game.  We all remember Roy Keane being the billy-big-bolox with Viera in the tunnel before an Arsenal v Utd game back in the 1990s.  Souness did that in every game, but on the pitch.  He terrified the players, and then he played football around them.  He ran ours, and he other teams midfield.

 

 

As for people staring to lessen Gerrards light.  I don't think anyone is, yet.  But after a career is when you really should start to examine just how good a player was when you're deciding if he is your clubs best ever.  Especially when it is a club like Liverpool who have had some of the best players ever to play the game.

 

Many people have Gerrard as 2nd behind Dalglish.  I think he'll drop off a little bit over the coming years.  Still definitely top 5, but not having a league title, and then the club winning one just a few seasons after he left, will, I think, see drop behind maybe Souness and Barnes in the fullness of time.  Or maybe not.  But it'll be interesting.   

[redheart]

Souness is the best midfielder that we have ever had. I loved Gerrard but Souness is better and I saw them both.

 

However, Dalglish the best player that we have ever had and the best that I have ever seen. He was producing better football than both Ronaldos and Messi. They played on superb pitches and in a sanitised game.

 

Kenny produced better football on pitches that looked like a ploughed field and so little protection that you had to hit someone with a shovel to get a red card.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

23 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:

You’ve already said you haven’t seen Souness play.
But you must be right???

Yup. Case closed Clive!

[JohnnyH]

47 minutes ago, The Guest said:

You’re all mad.  “Dominating midfield” “controlling games” “dictating play” they all mean fuck all.  Gerrard singlehandedly won games all over the pitch and it was near enough every week.  He had some great players around him at times but he consistently had fuck up merchants around him who he needed to pull out the fire.  He had to train with players well below his level every fucking day and still turned up every weekend and wiped the floor with any midfielder he came up against.  He had every asset to his game and he didn’t just epitomise the box to box midfielder he rewrote it because there had never been a player like him before and the pigeon holing of midfielders since about halfway through his career means we won’t see one again.

 

As a Liverpool fan you should know all this but there seems to be some sort of weird problem loads of our fans have with him.  He’s the best player we’ve ever had.

 

[KMD7]

1 hour ago, The Guest said:

You’re all mad.  “Dominating midfield” “controlling games” “dictating play” they all mean fuck all.  Gerrard singlehandedly won games all over the pitch and it was near enough every week.  He had some great players around him at times but he consistently had fuck up merchants around him who he needed to pull out the fire.  He had to train with players well below his level every fucking day and still turned up every weekend and wiped the floor with any midfielder he came up against.  He had every asset to his game and he didn’t just epitomise the box to box midfielder he rewrote it because there had never been a player like him before and the pigeon holing of midfielders since about halfway through his career means we won’t see one again.

 

As a Liverpool fan you should know all this but there seems to be some sort of weird problem loads of our fans have with him.  He’s the best player we’ve ever had.

Better than Dalglish? Utter nonsense

[YorkshireRed]

Kenny Dalglish is the greatest Liverpool player ever bar none. Souness and Gerrard are two and three. A hair’s breadth between them and I can understand arguments for both being number two. For me it’s Stevie because he could play in more positions and excel at them all. The position they both played in, Souness gets the nod there but only just. 
 

Another debate would be that if these are the undisputed top three then who is our fourth best player ever?

 

Maybe that’s for another thread...

[KMD7]

51 minutes ago, redheart said:

Souness is the best midfielder that we have ever had. I loved Gerrard but Souness is better and I saw them both.

 

However, Dalglish the best player that we have ever had and the best that I have ever seen. He was producing better football than both Ronaldos and Messi. They played on superb pitches and in a sanitised game.

 

Kenny produced better football on pitches that looked like a ploughed field and so little protection that you had to hit someone with a shovel to get a red card.

Yep. Dalglish sits comfortably with the greatest players of all time. The best player in one of the greatest club sides ever. 

[Jairzinho]

 

Just missing that wee bit of absolutely nothing whatsoever as a central midfielder.

[joe_fishfish]

It's hard for people of my generation to appreciate players like Dalglish or Souness because we don't have the right context. I mean I've gone and watched youtube videos of them both, and the standard of the opposition from their era looks shit.

 

I mean obviously the players back then could get away with stuff that would probably get you banned for six matches these days, and the pitches were shit, and the balls were like medicine balls. But it's hard for people like me who weren't around back then to really appreciate what made these players great.

 

[The Guest]

30 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

It's hard for people of my generation to appreciate players like Dalglish or Souness because we don't have the right context. I mean I've gone and watched youtube videos of them both, and the standard of the opposition from their era looks shit.

 

I mean obviously the players back then could get away with stuff that would probably get you banned for six matches these days, and the pitches were shit, and the balls were like medicine balls. But it's hard for people like me who weren't around back then to really appreciate what made these players great.

 

Football is constantly evolving and you have to take that into account.  If you put that shocking in 2010 team with Konchesky and Jovanovic etc in a time machine and travelled them back to 1978 they would run rings around Dalglish and Souness etc.  They would just outrun them for a start but on top of that they would just keep the ball better and be far more tactically aware.  The training and education of players is just astronomically better.  If you watch old games even from 20s years ago there’s just so much launching the ball under no pressure.  I watched the famous Liverpool Leeds charity shield game the other week and the standard was comically bad looking back now.  Some people just outright refuse to see it though.

 

When comparing Souness to Gerrard it’s unfair on Souness because he was born decades earlier.  If he’d have been born the same year as  Gerrard I’ve no doubt he’d have been a better player than he was because he would have worked under the same training methods, played on better pitches etc but there’s nothing to say he would have been the player Gerrard was for me.  When there’s people actually saying he was a better player dominating midfields and stuff i honestly find it hilarious.  He just did not have the variety and set of skills Gerrard had.  When you bring up tactical awareness etc you need to get a grip.  Go back and watch some old games.  They’re absolutely wide open constantly.  It’s relative obviously but you’re living in a fantasy land.  I’m giving Souness a massive benefit of the doubt.  I’m not just whitewashing what he was at his time he is nowhere near Gerrard.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

First paragraph is nonsense. You watched the Leeds game before Souness was even here and before our great side even emerged and you judged football of the time by that. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

That 78 side was one of the greatest club sides ever, played total football, a joy to watch. Terrified sides and played them off the park. Troll lalalala!

[The Guest]

4 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

First paragraph is nonsense. You watched the Leeds game before Souness was even here and before our great side even emerged and you judged football of the time by that. 

I’m not judging Souness on that game.  I’ve watched countless Liverpool games and highlights of the teams before I was born.  I mentioned Leeds as a recent example of game I watched and the general standard.