Rafa Exclusive in The Times

[WhiskeyJar]

Yes, all very good points

 

But i am not saying it is 100%.

 

10% of the variation left to other factors still leaves a very large margin for managers' work.

 

These are elite level athletes.

 

If any of the losing Olympic 100m finalists had run 10% faster thru management (or most likely drugs!) they would have smashed the world record.

 

But then how much do you leave to skill, talent, proper management, a good diet, shoes, hair resistance, age, flexibility, motivation etc.

 

Same comparison can be made to a football team. 10% cant have that much of an influencing factor as lets say 20% or 30%.

 

A manager has more of an inluencing factor than 10% because he directly controls the shape, formation and squad of his team.

 

Same as the wage bill which I think does have some influence on the teams final standing as that attracts certain players. 60% yes 70% maybe but surely not 90%

[Guest LFD]

The thing is Catch, football isn't a game just based on stats.

 

You tyake Torres and Gerrard out of our team and we'd probably finish outside the top four, maybe the top six. We'd still have high wages.

[WhiskeyJar]

The thing is Catch, football isn't a game just based on stats.

 

You tyake Torres and Gerrard out of our team and we'd probably finish outside the top four, maybe the top six. We'd still have high wages.

 

Its not just that. Everything surrounding the club has an impact on the team. The manager, the coaches, the fans, the players, the reserves, the training grounds, injuries, transfers, rumours, the stadium, the owners etc all that has to fit in that 10% left by the wages....some more of an impact that others but still.

[Roy Hobbs]

I dont think it is that much of a factor. There many influences that can aid or burden the teams final standing the league, Liverpool being the best example. Our wage bill has changed that much since last season where we fnished second.

 

This season we sold Xabi and if anything we UPPED our wage bill to keep existing stars at the club and now we are in the worst form we have ever been under Rafa.

 

I am not saying that you are wrong but I dont believe that 90% is right.

 

On the latest records available Chelsea spend on wages approx 50M GBP per year than us, Manu 35M GBP.

 

That to me equals 10 and 7 top, top quality international players in the squad. It also means if they suffer an injury crisis like we are at the moment they can survive it much much better. On top of that it means they can keep players on the bench long term because they will not get the same wedge elsewhere.

 

It is a massive massive factor in our ability to compete for major trophies, inparticular the league. Rafa overachieved last season yet many seem to think he fucked it up.

[sh#t waffle]

Catch is funny.

My take on the article is that it is undoubtedly an attempt to curry favour with the press. I fairly regularly read snippets from journalists claiming that Benitez does get treated harshly compared to others due to his unwillingness to 'play the game'. This seems to be a belated attempt - during a period when he needs all the support he can get - to give the media what they get from other managers. Though my own support for him is nowhere near what it was twelve months ago, I really don't see what the issue is with him doing this. When you see, via the utterly ludicrous recent Winter articles, what playing the game (Ferguson) gets you in terms of coverage compared to not, I don't blame him at all.

[WhiskeyJar]

On the latest records available Chelsea spend on wages approx 50M GBP per year than us, Manu 35M GBP.

 

That to me equals 10 and 7 top, top quality international players in the squad. It also means if they suffer an injury crisis like we are at the moment they can survive it much much better. On top of that it means they can keep players on the bench long term because they will not get the same wedge elsewhere.

 

It is a massive massive factor in our ability to compete for major trophies, inparticular the league. Rafa overachieved last season yet many seem to think he fucked it up.

 

Yet teams with the biggest wedge are stuck somewhere in mid-table.

 

On the basis of the wages we have seemed to over-achieved but not on the basis of the talent that we have at the club.

 

Where do you draw the line and say this much is financial and this much is talent, grit, skill, determination, motivation and heart?

[Hermes]

On the latest records available Chelsea spend on wages approx 50M GBP per year than us, Manu 35M GBP.

It is a massive massive factor in our ability to compete for major trophies, inparticular the league. Rafa overachieved last season yet many seem to think he fucked it up.

 

I take your point on last season. But once in the top two in six seasons cannot seriously be described as the performance of an overachieving manager regardless of finances.

 

If it is, who are we comparing ourselves to for this overachievement?

[Randy Marsh]

One thing I've noticed with Rafa recently is his use of the quote "the fans in the stadium know". I think that quote there explains the reason why he has given this Exclusive to The Times.

 

Is there anything more angering and frustrating, to me anyway, than getting in the car after the match and hearing Raj from Ipswich or Tarquin from Cambridge on a phone in going off on a rant over zonal marking, rotation, Lucas etc etc, only to then say they watched the game on teletext, or in most cases didnt watch the game at all? And where are these idiots getting their mis informed 'facts' from? Gobshites like Collymore, Whelan, Grey, Keys, and Nicholas. The mainstream media, atleast 90% of it, has done a total hatchet job on Rafa in recent weeks. Even the staunchest of Rafa doubters can see that. From the tosspots on Soccer Saturday and TalkSport, to previously respectable journos like Henry Winter stooping to using the death of Rafa's father as a stick to beat him with, an unforgivable and downright disgraceful shithouse trick in my opinion. The manager has had it from all angles.

 

These so called "facts", such as his "huge" spending (without taking in to account his return in sales), have been disproved by people who've actually taken the time to analyse the real facts. Just because Stan Collymore or Charlie Nicholas says it doesnt mean its true. But to many of our "fans" around the country, these are the oracle of truth. They believe the shite they get fed. They believe that Lucas is the root of all our problems, even though they've never actually watched the lad play a game in the flesh, and anyone who has this season can see the huge strides he's shown. But this is what Rafa has to put up with.

 

I'm not slating fans who don't, for whatever reason, go to the match. There are many circumstances people may have, finances, kids, distance, whatever, that make going to a game impossible. But there is a large element of our support who deal only in the facts they hear on Soccer Saturday, read in The S*N, or listen to on 606. And sadly that bandwagon is growing. If Rafa gives a few interviews in the mainstream media to counter that then so be it.

[Roy Hobbs]

Yet teams with the biggest wedge are stuck somewhere in mid-table.

 

On the basis of the wages we have seemed to over-achieved but not on the basis of the talent that we have at the club.

 

Where do you draw the line and say this much is financial and this much is talent, grit, skill, determination, motivation and heart?

 

When the player don't show any. If Rafa had 5 more players worth say 20M each and 100K/week we would of shit in last year.

 

Rafa said last year due to our financial constraints to win the league almost everything has to be perfect. He nearly did it anyway last year and it was far from perfect considering both Torres and Gerrard missed so much of the season.

 

This season doesn't resemble perfect in any way shape or form, our squad is currently decimated yet IMO despite disappointing results I can see improvement in our performances of late and feel we will turn it around.

[goatboy59]

Elitist piffle. There are plenty of people IN the stadium who aren't happy with his performance.

 

Again, if this is the kind of thing going through his head then it doesn't auger well.

 

Spin wins fuck all.

[Guest LFD]

Where do you draw the line and say this much is financial and this much is talent, grit, skill, determination, motivation and heart?

 

Chelsea pay for the skill and talent.

 

You can pay for the motivation and heart - we did with Pepe, Mascherano and Torres.

[king7]

Don't really have a problem with what Rafa has said in this interview, but I don't like that he seems to have an ever increasing need to explain himself and make everyone understand how difficult his job is. It smells of desperation and defensiveness, much like Houllier in the end.

 

I remember in his first year here, he was far more positive and got results even with a lot of bad players. Now suddenly everything is so much more difficult and, between the lines, he seems to be saying that we need a lot of luck to even compete with the richer clubs. How does this attitude effect the players and their confidence?

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into these recent interviews, but I feel that all the politics and strain of the job has really got to Rafa. I still think he is one of the best managers out there, but I am not sure if he's still the right man for the job anymore.

[Unrighteous]

[Trucker Paddy]

Manager and chief executive may face a difficult transfer window, with the priority being to lower the wage bill. Three or four players may head out of the Anfield exit door, with none of the cash heading back to Benítez, but there will be no civil war behind the scenes. "We are progressing," he said. "I’m happy and want to do the best for this club."

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6919543.ece

 

Makes you wonder what the fuck he was fighting for with all this "Control

" at the start of year, if players can be sold with him not getting the money, he does'nt seem to have3 any control, so what was all the fighting for with regards the contract.

[Tom R]

Code had a list!

 

Our last managerial appointment had won two la liga titles, and a european trophy, that is where we start the bidding!

 

The last Manager we had who actually won a leagu title had never even managed a fucking club before.

 

Your bidding system sucks huge sweaty tramp's balls.

[WhiskeyJar]

This season doesn't resemble perfect in any way shape or form, our squad is currently decimated yet IMO despite disappointing results I can see improvement in our performances of late and feel we will turn it around.

 

Which is why I believe the manager has more of an influence on the team than the wage.

[Carra_is_legend]

The last Manager we had who actually won a leagu title had never even managed a fucking club before.

 

Your bidding system sucks huge sweaty tramp's balls.

 

Shouldn't matter anyway. The manager is only responsible for 5% of the success.

[Roy Hobbs]

Don't really have a problem with what Rafa has said in this interview, but I don't like that he seems to have an ever increasing need to explain himself and make everyone understand how difficult his job is. It smells of desperation and defensiveness, much like Houllier in the end.

 

I remember in his first year here, he was far more positive and got results even with a lot of bad players. Now suddenly everything is so much more difficult and, between the lines, he seems to be saying that we need a lot of luck to even compete with the richer clubs. How does this attitude effect the players and their confidence?

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into these recent interviews, but I feel that all the politics and strain of the job has really got to Rafa. I still think he is one of the best managers out there, but I am not sure if he's still the right man for the job anymore.

 

Surely you would admit he gets far more stick than any other manager. Its relentless and most of it mindless drivel. This is his first mainstream interview and it will help stop the rot (at least I hope it stops the gross spend bullshit) as I think the problem is he is misunderstood.

 

These interviews at least gives people the chance to try and understand him and his methods. Surely that is better than the continous bullshit we get fed daily.

[Catch22]

Don't really have a problem with what Rafa has said in this interview, but I don't like that he seems to have an ever increasing need to explain himself and make everyone understand how difficult his job is. It smells of desperation and defensiveness, much like Houllier in the end.

 

I remember in his first year here, he was far more positive and got results even with a lot of bad players. Now suddenly everything is so much more difficult and, between the lines, he seems to be saying that we need a lot of luck to even compete with the richer clubs. How does this attitude effect the players and their confidence?

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into these recent interviews, but I feel that all the politics and strain of the job has really got to Rafa. I still think he is one of the best managers out there, but I am not sure if he's still the right man for the job anymore.

 

Back then there was only 1 club spending stupid money though.

 

Now there is City, who are actually in our League & RM who just took away our best performer last season by throwing cash at him.

 

This isn't just affecting us though.

 

You can see exactly the same process at the Mancs who also lost their best player to the same club for exactly the same reason & are highly unlikely to win the title this year because of it.

 

Which is why GinSaok's ref comments are appearing increasingly shrill.

 

If they say that City/RM haven't changed the rules of the game or that they didn't lose players because of money, they look stupid.

If they admit the effects, they are called defeatist

If they say nothing, they are uncommunicative.

[aws]

Catch is ruling this thread.

[Tom R]

I especially like the swipey card thing we have now in place of tickets.

 

But seriously, you're right. I know this is Liverpool FC and I know what that means in terms of winning trophies but only somebody who doesn't understand the game judges a manager based solely on trophies.

 

Is this some kind of sick fucking joke??

 

i really hope so.

[Tom R]

You forget that Rafa has been in the CL for the last 6 seasons because the rules of entry changed. If the rules in existance before he came still stood now he would have had one season in the competition because of our league positions.

 

[Whelan]

The last Manager we had who actually won a leagu title had never even managed a fucking club before.

 

Your bidding system sucks huge sweaty tramp's balls.

 

I see you're offering your usual temperate input!

 

For the record I agree with you, fuck all to do with where the manager comes from just where they finish, and i'll repeat this when Maureen gets mentioned and people trot out his previous record.

 

We did well to get Rafa, it was another one of Parrys better decisions, he did actually make quite a few when he was here.

[Tom R]

It is a bit less than 10% as there are other factors.

 

please stop!! MY EYES!! MY BRAIN!!!!

 

All of the credibility that you didn't even have to begin with is now gone forever.

[WhiskeyJar]

Back then there was only 1 club spending stupid money though.

 

Now there is City, who are actually in our League & RM who just took away our best performer last season by throwing cash at him.

 

This isn't just affecting us though.

 

You can see exactly the same process at the Mancs who also lost their best player to the same club for exactly the same reason & are highly unlikely to win the title this year because of it.

 

Which is why GinSaok's ref comments are appearing increasingly shrill.

 

If they say that City/RM haven't changed the rules of the game or that they didn't lose players because of money, they look stupid.

If they admit the effects, they are called defeatist

If they say nothing, they are uncommunicative.

 

If you look abroad, Europe in particular, money has always spoken volumes. However money and the prestige of playing in teams that have a glowing history and still continues to so, is priceless.

 

Why would a world class player come to the harderst league in the world when they can pratcise their trade at an easier league with more money in their pockets?