Militant Labour in Liverpool 80's/early 90's

[WaltonRed]

This is a subject that fascinates me and I so I wondering what were peoples thoughts on the whole thing.

[scousechris]

Degsy has got the Best set of gates on the front of his house you have ever seen, the corpy fitted them on our shilling. Degsy won.

[stringvest]

A true working class hero our Degsy. Big gates. Unstormable.

[Catch22]

Hatton now runs a propertry development company in Cyprus.

 

When he is marketing , he correctly notes the benefit of low income tax (it is 10% in Cyprus i think) & less regulation for attracting capital & economic growth.

 

Always good to see the penny finally drop- Pity it didn't drop 25 years ago before when he pursued precisely the opposite policies & managed to drive away capital & talent at the city's expense.

[sparta7]

Not mad keen on Degsy or his cronies of the time, on the other hand it did appear that quite a few people got some decent housing to replace some seriously shit properties. It was never a battle he was going to win against that fucking rancid old hag but on the other hand at least somebody stood up to her.

[stringvest]

Hatton now runs a propertry development company in Cyprus.

 

When he is marketing , he correctly notes the benefit of low income tax (it is 10% in Cyprus i think) & less regulation for attracting capital & economic growth.

 

Always good to see the penny finally drop- Pity it didn't drop 25 years ago before when he pursued precisely the opposite policies & managed to drive away capital & talent at the city's expense.

 

While I cannot agree with Catch's default political and economic standpoint, he is correct to point out Derek's hypocrisy and the fact that his stance in the 1980s did push the city back 30 years in terms of development and attracting business.

 

I have no idea how long it will take to recover, but we're lagging quite a way behind all the major cities in the country, and it will take time to prove to a largely sceptical City that the insane policies of Hatton, who plainly was only in it for himself, have gone away, and there is a prevailing constructive and positive attitude towards the role of business and commerce.

 

The frightening thing about it is how easy Hatton found it to hoodwink a large part of the population of Liverpool into believing he really had their interests at heart. He used the Hitler model, and it worked spectacularly.

[TaksimRakiClub]

I don't think Militant were responsible for the lack of economic opportunity in Liverpool at the time and the resultant shift of population. We all know where the blame lies on that one.

 

My sister ended up working as a chamber maid in a top West End hotel - a proper fucking tory wet dream - a good working class girl knowing her place and all that. They - the hotel not the tories - told her to have elocution lessons to "cure" her accent. She told them to fuck off and came home.

 

I've met Degsy a fair few times through work - when him and his lad were running an IT company in the Ropewalks. Not surprisingly they had the gig for the Everton website (Sunderland and WHU as well I think). Been sold for brewsters now.

 

You can only take as you find and though he was always a bit full of himself he was never less than the perfect gent on the occaisions I met him - even when I used to take the piss out of him for the early days and him acting the champagne socialist and all that.

 

He would happily sort you a derby ticket at the Stadium of Wood - never once took a penny for it either and took us to Chester races a couple of times as well. He liked his clobber and the bubbly but as far as I'm aware that isn't a crime.

 

Militant obviously had their flaws - same as everyone else on the planet - but at least they had the cojones to stand up to Thatcher and her fucking evil little trolls. They stand alone with the Miners on that score while the rest of the country bent over and assumed the position.

 

Easy choice for me - Degsy Hatton on the one hand. Thatcher and her lapdogs on the other.

[stringvest]

I don't think Militant were responsible for the lack of economic opportunity in Liverpool at the time and the resultant shift of population. We all know where the blame lies on that one.

 

My sister ended up working as a chamber maid in a top West End hotel - a proper fucking tory wet dream - a good working class girl knowing her place and all that. They - the hotel not the tories - told her to have elocution lessons to "cure" her accent. She told them to fuck off and came home.

 

I've met Degsy a fair few times through work - when him and his lad were running an IT company in the Ropewalks. Not surprisingly they had the gig for the Everton website (Sunderland and WHU as well I think). Been sold for brewsters now.

 

You can only take as you find and though he was always a bit full of himself he was never less than the perfect gent on the occaisions I met him - even when I used to take the piss out of him for the early days and him acting the champagne socialist and all that.

 

He would happily sort you a derby ticket at the Stadium of Wood - never once took a penny for it either and took us to Chester races a couple of times as well. He liked his clobber and the bubbly but as far as I'm aware that isn't a crime.

 

Militant obviously had their flaws - same as everyone else on the planet - but at least they had the cojones to stand up to Thatcher and her fucking evil little trolls. They stand alone with the Miners on that score while the rest of the country bent over and assumed the position.

 

Easy choice for me - Degsy Hatton on the one hand. Thatcher and her lapdogs on the other.

 

Not for me. I think they're both cunts. They were both wrong.

[Strontium]

Degsy Hatton on the one hand. Thatcher and her lapdogs on the other.

 

 

This is like Alien vs Predator isn't it - whoever wins, we lose.

[Hermes]

They did more damage to Liverpool than Hitler's bombers and we were paying off their debt for more than a decade afterwards. As usual these people were led by a champagne socialist pretending to care about people while feathering his own nest.

[WaltonRed]

So if we end up with an elected mayor and Hatton decided to stand you dont think he'd win then gents standing as an independent against the candidates that the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems would obviously force on us?

[mattyq]

I remember them sending redundancy notices to council staff in the back of taxis.

I hate evil Thatch but the militant lot were complete cunts.

[old skool tom]

hatton is a fuckin wanker! he screwd this city big time,were still paying for his decisions now!

[WaltonRed]

Peter Kilfoyle said in his book 'Left Behind' he was once told Hatton was a plant

[old skool tom]

[BexBissel]

The voters of Liverpool never actually voted the Militant council out. Democracy eh?

[WaltonRed]

Found this:

 

Legacy of the Liverpool battle:

 

6,300 families rehoused from tenements, flats and maisonettes

2, 873 tenement flats demolished

1,315 walk-up flats demolished

2,086 flats/maisonettes demolished

4,800 houses and bungalows built

7,400 houses and flats improved

600 houses/bungalows created by ‘top-downing’ 1,315 walk-up flats

25 new Housing Action Areas being developed

6 new nursery classes built and open

17 Community Comprehensive Schools established following a massive re-organisation

£10million spent on school improvements

Five new sports centres, one with a leisure pool attached, built and open

Two thousand additional jobs provided for in Liverpool City Council Budget

Ten thousand people per year employed on Council’s Capital Programme

Three new parks built

Rents frozen for five years

[TaksimRakiClub]

They did more damage to Liverpool than Hitler's bombers and we were paying off their debt for more than a decade afterwards. As usual these people were led by a champagne socialist pretending to care about people while feathering his own nest.

 

The point of my post was that the Militant debate always seems to boil down to Degsy's personality which obviously rubbed a lot of people the wrong way - even the early posts in the thread were heading that way. I knew the fella in a professional capacity and he was always straight as a die with me.

 

What does one believe? The evidence of one's own experience or the image presented by a Tory press being briefed by that prick Bernard Ingham, arse licker in chief and Knight of the Realm?

 

I am not for one minute suggesting that Militant were good for the city or that Derek didn't use his position to take advantage of certain opportunities but in that respect he was no better or worse than any other politician. Power corrupts and all that.

 

To suggest that Militant did more damage to the city than Thatcher though is, in my opinion, wide of the mark.

 

The Tories used the Toxteth riots and Militant as excuses to dissuade big business from investing in the City. They held up the local population as being a prime example of all that was wrong with Britain in the 80s. Come to the socialist paradise that is Liverpool and you'll get mugged, knifed, your car nicked, your sister raped etc etc. That is the legacy we still live with today to your average Daily Mail reader - not Militants.

 

The Tories were happy to sit and watch and wait for the city to die. I, for one, will be raising a glass or two the day the evil old bitch passes from this life should I be fortunate enough to see her out. Fucking hell, she's still pissing me off by hanging on and the only way I'd be in favour of a state funeral is if they bury the cunt alive.

 

We were mocked by an entire nation for our reaction to Hillsborough. The flowers laid at Anfield were a mawkish, sentimental response to the death of family and friends and we wallowed in self-pity. Well, just wait until you see how Middle England (wherever that is) responds to Thatcher's demise. The public reaction to Diana's death was a little taster for what's to come and I can't fucking wait.

 

And don't get me started on Hitler. The Luftwaffe blew me Nan and Grandad's door off its hinges during the May blitz and not even Thatcher would've messed with me Nan.

[Catch22]

I don't think Militant were responsible for the lack of economic opportunity in Liverpool at the time and the resultant shift of population. We all know where the blame lies on that one.

 

My sister ended up working as a chamber maid in a top West End hotel - a proper fucking tory wet dream - a good working class girl knowing her place and all that. They - the hotel not the tories - told her to have elocution lessons to "cure" her accent. She told them to fuck off and came home.

 

I've met Degsy a fair few times through work - when him and his lad were running an IT company in the Ropewalks. Not surprisingly they had the gig for the Everton website (Sunderland and WHU as well I think). Been sold for brewsters now.

 

You can only take as you find and though he was always a bit full of himself he was never less than the perfect gent on the occaisions I met him - even when I used to take the piss out of him for the early days and him acting the champagne socialist and all that.

 

He would happily sort you a derby ticket at the Stadium of Wood - never once took a penny for it either and took us to Chester races a couple of times as well. He liked his clobber and the bubbly but as far as I'm aware that isn't a crime.

 

Militant obviously had their flaws - same as everyone else on the planet - but at least they had the cojones to stand up to Thatcher and her fucking evil little trolls. They stand alone with the Miners on that score while the rest of the country bent over and assumed the position.

 

Easy choice for me - Degsy Hatton on the one hand. Thatcher and her lapdogs on the other.

 

 

There was always going to be a shift away from the old industries, which was going to hurt the North more than the rest of the country.

 

Liverpool is more cosmopolitan, more entreprenuerial & more creative than any of the other areas that suffered & had massive brand advantages from the Beatles & the club on the top of this website.

 

All of those are extremely important structural advantages for the services age we live in.

 

However much of a good bloke he may be, that was all squandered by Hatton's ridiculous anti-capital politics.

[WaltonRed]

There was always going to be a shift away from the old industries, which was going to hurt the North more than the rest of the country.

 

Liverpool is more cosmopolitan, more entreprenuerial & more creative than any of the other areas that suffered & had massive brand advantages from the Beatles & the club on the top of this website.

 

All of those are extremely important structural advantages for the services age we live in.

 

However much of a good bloke he may be, that was all squandered by Hatton's ridiculous anti-capital politics.

 

To be fair to Militant, Liverpool FC and f**tball in general was not the cash cow it is now nor were The Beatles.

 

They had the shop in Matthew Street and that was it.

[Section_31]

Problem with the left (and unions for that matter) is that they're often taken over by loudmouthed cunts who simply enjoy arguing and playing the victim, 'Degsy' fits this profile perfectly.

 

I wouldn't read anything into the fact he used to be a left winger but now owns a property firm as some kind of road to Damascus transformation, as the slippery fuck would probably always adapt to whatever group view suited his own goals best.

 

Many unions were run along the same lines, they fought and fought for things simply for the sake of fighting, with the end result that people stopped hearing the message.

 

Karl Marx he wasn't.

[WaltonRed]

Karl Marx he wasnt Section but an awful lot of people still like him, hence my question about elected Mayors.

[Catch22]

To be fair to Militant, Liverpool FC and f**tball in general was not the cash cow it is now nor were The Beatles.

 

They had the shop in Matthew Street and that was it.

 

 

Yes that's a fair point but it was certainly a positive brand image.

 

Japan were the main foreign direct investors of the period & they absolutely loved the Beatles, then & now.

[TaksimRakiClub]

Yes that's a fair point but it was certainly a positive brand image.

 

Japan were the main foreign direct investors of the period & they absolutely loved the Beatles, then & now.

 

The Beatles may have been a positive image for the city to outsiders but football in general and Liverpool FC in particular were very much the opposite at the time.

[BexBissel]

Found this:

 

Legacy of the Liverpool battle:

 

6,300 families rehoused from tenements, flats and maisonettes

2, 873 tenement flats demolished

1,315 walk-up flats demolished

2,086 flats/maisonettes demolished

4,800 houses and bungalows built

7,400 houses and flats improved

600 houses/bungalows created by ‘top-downing’ 1,315 walk-up flats

25 new Housing Action Areas being developed

6 new nursery classes built and open

17 Community Comprehensive Schools established following a massive re-organisation

£10million spent on school improvements

Five new sports centres, one with a leisure pool attached, built and open

Two thousand additional jobs provided for in Liverpool City Council Budget

Ten thousand people per year employed on Council’s Capital Programme

Three new parks built

Rents frozen for five years

 

Yeah but apart from that, what did the romans ever do for us?