What Do You Want To See Before January?

[Guest LFD]

I'm sure I saw an interview with Rafa somewhere (I'll try and find it) where he said we actually play with a system using a mixture of zonal and man to man marking.

[Tom R]

I'm sure I saw an interview with Rafa somewhere (I'll try and find it) where he said we actually play with a system using a mixture of zonal and man to man marking.

 

It's purely zonal when the kick is taken, any second phase switches to man marking.

 

I think. Not 100%.

[Mathewbet1]

Some pride.

[Guest LFD]

Some pride.

 

We saw that on Monday to be fair, the team were clearly playing for the shirt and manager.

[Xherdan]

We never have a man on the post. I've seen Man U save at least 5 goals this season with a man on the post and I've watched us needlessly concede at least 8.

It's our biggest error on set pieces, in my opinion, but zonal markig means all men are utilised elsewhere. Rafa won't ever change that, regardless of how many goals we conced in this way.

I happen to know for a fact that one or two senior players have raised this very issue with Rafa and he has dismissed it out of hand.

 

Gerard's appaling free kicks and corners will never change, because Captain Fantastic won't ever relinquish the duty, regardless of how how terrible he is at them. Besides, ubless Aurelio is on the pitch, who else is capable of hittinga dead ball??? It's fucking embarassing really.

 

 

Riera delivered some decent set pieces on Monday.

[zigackly]

It's purely zonal when the kick is taken, any second phase switches to man marking.

 

I think. Not 100%.

 

I'm not convinced Tom, we are no longer seeing the rigid two lines of four in the box that were our trademark during his first few seasons. We do still have a set shape but we seem to have a couple of floating men now who go to the pinch points, as well as keeping our shape elastically which is how you implement pure zonal marking.

[twigs]

We are currently 11 points behind the leaders. Come the 3rd round of the FA Cup at the beginning of January, it would be great to have reduced this by 4 or 5 points if possible. Big ask I know, especially as there's no chance of doing that if Chelsea win all their games!

 

In reality, and to contradict myself a little I guess after what I said above, we have to actually focus on one game at a time. We hear the manager and players say this a lot but sometimes I don't think they're actually believing what they're saying? One game, 3 points, nothing else should matter. Repeat.

[Red Phoenix]

I just simply want to see the side Rafa feels is his strongest play a few games. After all the shit that's gone on I'm just hoping he stays and can put that side out for some games, and that it works. It's not because I'm blindly supporting Rafa either, I just want to see how well that side actually plays, and how well Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani play together. Have just got a feeling Aquilani will make Torres and Gerrard even more lethal as they'll have better supply from midfield.

[Tom R]

I'm not convinced Tom, we are no longer seeing the rigid two lines of four in the box that were our trademark during his first few seasons. We do still have a set shape but we seem to have a couple of floating men now who go to the pinch points, as well as keeping our shape elastically which is how you implement pure zonal marking.

 

Maybe. All I know is that whatever we're doing, it doesn't fucking work.

 

If we left a man on each post AND a man on the half way line, then the opposition would have to leave two men with our man on the halfway line, hence negating some defensive requirements of our two men we have on the posts.

We could still use zonal marking, the players would just take a slightly larger zone each as there'd be less opposition players to worry about within their zone.

 

Simple.

 

So simple it will never happen.

[Unrighteous]

Maybe. All I know is that whatever we're doing, it doesn't fucking work.

 

If we left a man on each post AND a man on the half way line, then the opposition would have to leave two men with our man on the halfway line, hence negating some defensive requirements of our two men we have on the posts.

We could still use zonal marking, the players would just take a slightly larger zone each as there'd be less opposition players to worry about within their zone.

 

Simple.

 

So simple it will never happen.

 

 

The funny thing is... you are so spot on it's almost scary. Johnson and Insua on the post. Lucas is aggressive in the air, so despite being short, have him come back.

 

Hang Yossi, who is short and not great in the air, up near the halfway line.

 

That makes Reina more likely to make saves because the men at the post have 'shrunk' the net and they'll going to have to leave two up which eases the demand on our defense! We might also score a goal.

 

Holy shit! I think we're onto something.

 

Of course, both Babel and Keane have stayed up near the halfway before and scored goals from it when defending corners. Both were dropped in the next game... which leads me to think that they weren't obeying instructions.

[zigackly]

I think Tom is right, not sure if Rafa will ever go for it though. He used to like having eight zones previously in two lines of four, which left two men free to break. Now I believe we are using those two extra men as floating markers to go wherever the opposition concentrate players to overwhelm our zones. Our shape also seems different, we seem to be defending more in a line of six zones and then two in front. He would need to drop to six zones only, to have two men on the post as well as the floating markers, or five zones with a man on the halfway line. The other option is not to have floating markers, let's face it: it doesn't work anyway.

[aws]

Maybe. All I know is that whatever we're doing, it doesn't fucking work.

 

If we left a man on each post AND a man on the half way line, then the opposition would have to leave two men with our man on the halfway line, hence negating some defensive requirements of our two men we have on the posts.

We could still use zonal marking, the players would just take a slightly larger zone each as there'd be less opposition players to worry about within their zone.

 

Simple.

 

So simple it will never happen.

 

I used to think the same about leaving a man on the half-way line but I started to change my mind last season when I saw how we were using this as an attacking ploy - if Reina catches the ball we break quickly and they're outnumbered as their centre backs have to plod back up field. I noticed a couple of teams worked this out last year and were keeping players back even though they weren't marking anyone.

[Tom R]

But the rare pro of Reina catching and distributing it is FAR outweighed by the number of cons when he doesn't do that, and the pressure is right back on us.

 

Besides, I'd rather have a guaranteed outlet upfield for Reina to distribute to, rather than always having to wait for our boys to push out, then hold the ball up, then wait for reinforcements, then build an attack. It's too predicatable and laboured and it hardly ever, ever pays off.

 

What happens 9 times out of 10 is someone like Dirk receives it from Reina, holds it up a bit, and in the mean time they've also managed to get back in their own half, and it results in a shitty sideways pass and the attack peters out.

 

Shit.

[PaulMcC]

Get most of our best pplayers fit and get back on form.

[aws]

World peace and Nicole Kidman's quim.

[ZonkoVille77]

World peace and Nicole Kidman's quim.

 

Nice.

 

1 - A defense with a solid backbone.

2 - Kuyt and Riera to have their fingers surgically removed from their holes.

3 - Aquilani to show us he's boss.

[Anubis]

Christmas.

[Soleilrouge]

The colliseum

[Paul]

Aggression, aggression and aggression (albeit of the controlled variety). Whether it be attacking the ball in the air at set-pieces, closing down when the opposition has the ball or showing for team mates when in possession, I want to see us battle for everything. It covers a multitude of sins, in my opinion, and if we exhibit it like we did post 'Boro (CL quarter final at Anfield excepted) last season, we'll quickly rack up the points and make any worries about fourth old news.

[Vulmea]

Is my memory gone or did we used to have one player on one post, with the keeper covering the other? Is that player now doing a man marking role?

 

I presume you can't just extend a players area because you'd increase their chance of not making the ball, getting cut/blocked off etc.

 

A man on the post is 'zonal marking' isn't it? so are we actually asking for zonal marking rather than man marking?

[ratcatcher]

Is my memory gone or did we used to have one player on one post, with the keeper covering the other? Is that player now doing a man marking role?

 

I presume you can't just extend a players area because you'd increase their chance of not making the ball, getting cut/blocked off etc.

 

A man on the post is 'zonal marking' isn't it? so are we actually asking for zonal marking rather than man marking?

 

We do have a player on one post. Maybe not every time but he's still there.

 

To be fair, there's no perfect marking system that will ever prevent a goal. I would favour man to man over zonal any time of the day. That way, at the very least, each player knows his responsibility from when the ball comes in to it being collected by the keeper or going dead.

[big crazy pepe]

Aggression, aggression and aggression (albeit of the controlled variety). Whether it be attacking the ball in the air at set-pieces, closing down when the opposition has the ball or showing for team mates when in possession, I want to see us battle for everything. It covers a multitude of sins, in my opinion, and if we exhibit it like we did post 'Boro (CL quarter final at Anfield excepted) last season, we'll quickly rack up the points and make any worries about fourth old news.

 

Totally agree with this. Also a completely new medical staff. If we had everyone fit, I'd want Rafa to mix things up (Johnson for Kuyt, etc.), but he'll never do it so that's a moot point I guess.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Kuyt dropped?

 

Never gonna happen, so it's pretty much a pointless thread.

 

The same dire shite will continue for the rest of the season until Torres, Gerrard (when fit) and possibly Benayoun will win us a few games with their magic.

 

By then it could be too late.

[Liverpool lad]

Tom has raised some good points there. Apart from the the obvious benefits he has noted, I feel that having so many people in the box for set-pieces isn't ideal as it restricts the goalkeeper in his ability to come and clear up. And surely, more people equal more confusion when you are trying to defend, bringing everyone back is inviting pressure. Then as Lance has said, there is the option to get on the attack quicker.

 

Of all the other top teams who use Zonal Marking, do they bring all their players back? I understand the basics of Zonal Marking, but not the finer intricacies.

 

Paul is spot on as usual, calling for some conviction in our play, going back to the tail end of last season we were frightening in some games.

 

I think we our wasting our time with corners sometimes, I would like to see stats on how many of our corners led to goals, or something along those lines. I would guess that we would be mid-table at best if those stats were placed in comparison with the rest of the Premier League.

[vonk]

A clean sheet. Preferably against Arsenal.