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The Owld Fecker

Is Rafa capable of winning the Premier League?

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nope.

 

he's fine in the CL when its slow/possession/counter attacking football but lost when it comes to 100 mph physical/passionate/attacking/instinctive football.

 

why he's brought in Eduardo Macia as chief is beyond me.surely the chief scout should be someone who knows what the english game requires and not the spanish? crazy!

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Don't think I explained that very well, a good example to me of a 'winning' mentality is Lucas (note Mentality Silverling! not player), he always wants the ball, never hides, no matter what the situation and no matter how much criticism he is getting, the same with Carragher no matter how poorly he has been playing he has not hid.

 

Maybe Kuyt is not good enough and as the team is playing poorly that shows, but Benny has all the skills in the world and I am reminded at present what the Hammers in work said about him 'Good when you are playing well, but won't get you out of a hole'. You don't have to be a great player to show for the ball, to put yourself on the line, to make yourself available, in that sense Benny is found wanting, as is Aurelio and Babel. Three players who are better than Park, Fletcher (contentious I know) but have less effect on the team.

 

Sometimes I think you watch a differnt match to me! Lucas for me hides nearly all the time - you watch how often he takes a position up where he is the one who puts the opposition player between him and the ball.

 

As for Kuyt, I don't think he hides at all, I just think he's a quite poor player in the 1st 2 3rds of the field so he fucks things up, his willingness to keep going no matter how shit things are is one of his best features imo.

 

And benayoun? Well he's one of those fellas who thinks he can do it all on his own imo. When we're desperate or struggling, he takes massive gambles with his positioning and goes to parts of the pitch where getting the ball to him is difficult, but if he gets the ball he's in with a chance. optionally, when he gets the ball deep or wide he will try to dribble all the way to the goal with his head down. When we're playing well as a team he is very capable of coming short, releasing the ball quickly and playing little one-two's and when he does that and puts uncertainty in the defenders mind, he looks a very capable dribbler and a good footballer. His decision making when we're stuggling is poor and it's what makes him so hit a miss imo.

 

So to summarise, I don't think either Kuyt or Benayoun are not leader/captain type figures, just for differing reasons they become worse footballers when things are not going well.

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Sometimes I think you watch a differnt match to me! Lucas for me hides nearly all the time - you watch how often he takes a position up where he is the one who puts the opposition player between him and the ball.

As for Kuyt, I don't think he hides at all, I just think he's a quite poor player in the 1st 2 3rds of the field so he fucks things up, his willingness to keep going no matter how shit things are is one of his best features imo.

 

And benayoun? Well he's one of those fellas who thinks he can do it all on his own imo. When we're desperate or struggling, he takes massive gambles with his positioning and goes to parts of the pitch where getting the ball to him is difficult, but if he gets the ball he's in with a chance. optionally, when he gets the ball deep or wide he will try to dribble all the way to the goal with his head down. When we're playing well as a team he is very capable of coming short, releasing the ball quickly and playing little one-two's and when he does that and puts uncertainty in the defenders mind, he looks a very capable dribbler and a good footballer. His decision making when we're stuggling is poor and it's what makes him so hit a miss imo.

 

So to summarise, I don't think either Kuyt or Benayoun are not leader/captain type figures, just for differing reasons they become worse footballers when things are not going well.

 

That is a brilliant point that a lot of people don't seem to notice. I've pointed it out to several people whilst watching games and they have gone, 'oh yeah he keeps doing it!'

 

Watch our next game, when the full backs have the ball and look to central midfield, an opposition player will be blocking a pass to Lucas. All he has to do is drop back 3/4 paces to be open for the pass; something Alonso did EVERY time - that's how he ran games.

 

Lucas just stands there though looking at the player.

 

Why that is, I don't know but he does it several times a game.

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Sometimes I think you watch a differnt match to me!

 

haha, I must do! I don't particularly rate Lucas I just don't think he hides, I agree about Kuyt (I didn't actually say his movement was bad, just that he was not good enough to 'step up').

 

I am being polite over Benny, I watched him at Fulham (just one match out of Lyon, Fiorentina, Sunderland etc) and he looked like he couldn't be arsed playing on the left! And just stood there, to me he looked like he wants the ball played to him rather than moving to to it. I have a sneaking suspicion that he may be trying to use the fans as well! But I am a twat for taking a dislike to someone and analysing everything they do, looking for proof that I am right.

 

So there is a good chance I am wrong on Benny!

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Last season showed he is capable.

 

If he'd had more resources I think he'd have done it by now.

 

At present we'd need a lot of luck to do it with Gerrard / Torres staying fit for the majority of the season - which is unlikely.

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Rafa is capable of winning the Premier League but I fear he never will, primarily because of our owners. When Rafa came here he was up against two of the best and most stable managers in great situations in Wenger and Fergie. On the whole (in terms of points and trophies won) he has comfortably got the better of Wenger and Arsenal over the past five years but not Fergie and Man Utd. Besides those two, Rafa was also up against a newly monied Chelsea who were buying expensive players at an alarming rate, all under the watchful eye of one of the best man-managers around (whether you like Mourinho or not, I think the man-manager thing stands). Rafa won us a European Cup - something Mourinho couldn't do with all the cash he had at Chelsea, and that should never be forgotten.

 

Without any bias, and given the three contenders above, Rafa and Liverpool should have been fourth favourites for the league every year. We had the 'blip' of fifth (in the European Cup winning year) but we also had fourth, third, third, and last season, second spot.

 

Last season's second place finish saw us playing the best football in the Prem (in the last part of the season, mind) and we blew teams away for fun, scoring all sorts of goals. We were well placed to kick on this season with suitable investment in the side (stand still and you lose ground, such is life in the Prem).

 

So what happened?

 

We lost Alonso. Big blow. His replacement, Aquilani, may well prove to be a good player, but the fact is he has been injured and hasn't got into the first team set up yet. We lost Arbeloa. He wasn't spectacular, but he was an important part of a defence that had helped Pepe Reina to the golden gloves award for clean sheets in three of the past four seasons. He was replaced with Johsnon, who, while expensive, adds an attakcing bias down the right flank, which is just what we needed to help break down stubborn defences who come to 'park the bus' - witness all the draws last season.

 

All this is to say there has been no improvement to the team or squad since last season. You might say it has regressed, especially since Aquilani hasn't featured yet. Then add in some injuries to more key players, and a loss of form in the middle of the defence, and an inexperienced left back (though I'm glad Rafa is playing him, as if he buckles down he could be a fixture in the side for years to come), and what does it give you? It gives you a defence that leaks all sorts of goals and needs some work, and it gives you a side that looks a bit toothless when some of the big hitters are out.

 

Rafa is certainly partly to blame for all this, but the bigger blame lies with those who have not given him the funds he needs to compete for that title. Johnson and Aquilani were replacements for departing players. We needed another one or two first teamers (Silva and Villa would have been dream stuff) and we'd have taken the title this time. Instead, our cautious owners are putting even top four in jeopardy, given the emergence of newly monied Man Citeh, especially, and to a lesser extent, Spurs and Villa.

 

I still think we will regroup and make the top four but it is not what we want. We saw a glimpse last season and we were rightly filled will hope for this campaign. It doesn't look like it will happen for us this time, but I wouldn't be putting all the blame on Rafa (though he does have his faults, like all managers, and is partly to blame).

 

Rafa can win the Premier League. Give him the tools to do the job and he will deliver. If not, while everyone else progresses and we stand still, finishing top four will be an achievement, though obviously not what we want.

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FAIL

 

Masch was a forgotten promise sat on curbishley's bench at West Ham until we bought him.

 

Apart from that one epic fail. You have managed to include a post of 4 players who are still playing for liverpool that have been captains at one stage in the career. How about the rest of the squad?

 

I do like your idea's though!

 

Gerrard - club captain

Carra - deputy captain, captain of England under 21 side years ago

Insua - captain of Argentina under 21s

Lucas - captain of Brazil under 21s

Mascherano - captain of Argentina

Kuyt - captain of Feyenoord

Benayoun - captain of Israel

Torres - captain of Atletico

 

Other players with obvious leadership qualities: Reina

 

Other former players by Rafa who were captain or were leadership quality: Alonso, and Arbeloa who was captain of Castilla (I think)

 

Players Rafa wanted but didn't get who were captains of their club: Barry, Simao

 

The rest who aren't/weren't captain before are the reserves, young players and the Bosman players.

 

Lack of quality has to do with budget, simple as.

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A more important question is can he keep us at the level weve enjoyed in the last few years given the other shit thats going on around him and if he cant will the Real jobe suddenly seem attractive enough forhim to leave.

 

Then the question will be can we find a manager good enough and willing to come that will keep us challenging.

 

The league at this moments is a distant dream only.

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Sometimes I think you watch a differnt match to me! Lucas for me hides nearly all the time - you watch how often he takes a position up where he is the one who puts the opposition player between him and the ball.

 

I think he is changing, perhaps becoming more confident, and is now always looking for the ball and giving the player on the ball an option of an easy pass. I watched the Fulham game last night as I didn't get to watch it first time round, and I think watching a game when you know the result means you can look at things a bit differently as you don't have the tension of a live game, and all the way through he was giving options like Alonso used to do. Of course when he got it he wasn't quite Alonso like. Thought the same during the Lyon game too.

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That is a brilliant point that a lot of people don't seem to notice. I've pointed it out to several people whilst watching games and they have gone, 'oh yeah he keeps doing it!'

 

Watch our next game, when the full backs have the ball and look to central midfield, an opposition player will be blocking a pass to Lucas. All he has to do is drop back 3/4 paces to be open for the pass; something Alonso did EVERY time - that's how he ran games.

 

Lucas just stands there though looking at the player.

 

Why that is, I don't know but he does it several times a game.

 

that's exactly what i mean - except sometimes you actually watch him move from a position he could recieve the ball into a position where he no longer can. That always tells me I think he feels he doesn't belong. He's taken a ball, got rid and found a red shirt and feels he's done enough, so doesn't have to offer again and it can't be his fault if he hasn't got the ball.

 

I think he is changing, perhaps becoming more confident, and is now always looking for the ball and giving the player on the ball an option of an easy pass. I watched the Fulham game last night as I didn't get to watch it first time round, and I think watching a game when you know the result means you can look at things a bit differently as you don't have the tension of a live game, and all the way through he was giving options like Alonso used to do. Of course when he got it he wasn't quite Alonso like. Thought the same during the Lyon game too.

 

I'm going to say to you what I said to Whelan earlier - I must watch a different game. I watched the fulham game in the pub, i can remember 4 or 5 times shouting at the telly and screaming "drop a few yards and make yourself available you cunt". In Lyon, I was less exciteable (dunno why I'm more relaxed at the match than watching in the pub), so settled for a few "fucking Lucas" comments under my breath. Each one was about him not offering himself for the ball. imo central midfield players, there most important job is reading the game and knowing where to be to make themselves available all over the pitch. Good sides always have those players. We had one in Alonso and to some extent Masch is decent at it in deep positions, but I'm afraid Lucas uses the opposition to keep himself out of the firing line.

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He won't win it while these owners are here. Not because of a lack of funds but because he's been more concerned with playing out power battles and using them to make excuses, along with a good portion of our internet fanbase.

 

As I said, he should have walked it last season but his ego and cautious streak got in the way.

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An honest question by the OP.

 

I've said for a little while now that I dont believe benitez will win the title for us based on a number of reasons which Im not going to repeat here. I also dont think he'll win a title again even if he moved to say Spain or Italy unless he took over a team that had won the title in the last two seasons.

 

His trophy hauls have generally come from inheriting teams. He does not provide any evidence of creating or building his own team that will win at the highest level. despite this, I still believe he will consistently finish in the top 4 in any league he does manage in.

 

Should we get rid? Again, I believe he should stay until the end of the season then be put on gardening leave for us to find another manager to take us forward.

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No manager is capable of winning the league without full backing of the owners/board.

 

The title is wrong. It should be "Is Liverpool FC capable of winning the Premier League"?

 

The answer is most likely no. Not unless we get richer and more supportive owners. Similarly, neither will Arsenal.

 

The league is going to be won by Chelsea or the Mancs, and City if they get a better manager.

 

The comments by ratcatcher is interesting. Very very few managers win things without inheriting a squad, or given time and money to build a team.

 

Fergie couldn't. He took years before winning his first title.

Mourinho didn't either. He took over a already strong Chelsea and Inter. Porto? He got the support he wanted didn't he?

Wenger had a decent team already, and only had to add quality in his first season onwards

 

The only managers I can think of who breeze in and win with whats available is Capello and Hiddink. However both are not known to stay long term and build dynasties. And I highly doubt they would be interested in being a underfunded manager in a team with overinflated ambitions in relation to their resources

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He's capable yes, but not in the current situation i wouldn't have thought. I'm not sure anybody would be.

 

I think he learned a hell of a lot last season, but unfortunately there's no money to realise the ideas.

 

Considering that the players we got this close season were all replacements for departures, I genuinely believe a budget of about £30-£40m (I know, never going to happen with our pair) would see us better off. Someone like Silva, who can adequately play across the 3 attacking midfield positions, and a reasonable striker in the £10m bracket (I always liked the look of Negredo) would improve us immensely. Sadly, there was no money and the light squad that we were retrospectively lucky with last season has been depleted, and there's no reinforcements to call on so to speak. Some of that is Rafa's fault, most definitely if he'd learned these lessons when he had his £2om annual budget we'd be better off, but sadly it's all too late now.

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Makes you wonder why we made him one of the highest earners in the league then. Give the job to Kenny, who at least has title winning experience in this country, and use Benitez's inflated wages to boost the wage bill, which as we know is the true benchmark of title winners...

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He had a chance this year and was badly let down

 

He's been a lucky manager and he has saved all his back luck for this one season.

 

He is damaged goods now I am afraid, its clear he doesnt have the full support of the dresssing room but hopefuly he can steer us into 4th place.

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