Your man Tomkins

[cochcaer]

 

 

He only tries to present the facts.

 

He's Liverpool's Lord Haw Haw.

[Liverbnz]

He tries to present the facts alright. On which he lavishes copious amounts of spin, platitiudes, and sycophancy, a generous portion of one-eyed analysis, a soupcon of pedantry, and a sprinkling of other unsophisticated techniques to hoodwink and bamboozle the tired and emotional.

 

He spends hours each day on research and comes up with the wrong conclusions? That's hours each day wasted. He could be using that time to work on improving his health. That would benefit not only him, but millions of sane and objective Liverpool supporters all around the world.

 

And what gives me the right? The fact that he publishes it gives me the right, young fellow me lad. The very same right that you have taken advantage of to comment on my post.

 

And surely he can't work as hard as Dirk.

 

Comintg to the wrong conclusions? And you basis for that arguement is?

[Liverbnz]

The fact that he has an illness is irrelevant, his articles are too long and not good enough.

 

As opposed to the one line quips on this site that have little to no basis of fact.

[Ted]

All of his articles, probably.

[Liverbnz]

As opposed to the one line quips on this site that have little to no basis of fact.

 

All of his articles, probably.

 

:whistle:

[Jose M]

As opposed to the one line quips on this site that have little to no basis of fact.

 

You could always fuck off back to RAWK with these rest of the snivelling aplogists?

[Liverpool lad]

As opposed to the one line quips on this site that have little to no basis of fact.

 

No, in comparison with other journalists and writers. That was my original point

[stringvest]

Comintg to the wrong conclusions? And you basis for that arguement is?

 

Where do you start with that one? Read back over the months and years; the mountains of one-eyed nonesense. Don't misunderstand me, he's not wrong all the time; in the manner of a stopped clock. When the team and the manager is doing well, his espoused opinion will superficially chime with the majority of supporters.

 

When the team and the manager are failing, however, his abject refusal to countenance any merit in criticism being made is painful. Rather than address the herd of elephants in the room, he will spend 4000 words (or it feels like) trying to attract everyone's attention to a hamster in a cage.

[Liverbnz]

Where do you start with that one? Read back over the months and years; the mountains of one-eyed nonesense. Don't misunderstand me, he's not wrong all the time; in the manner of a stopped clock. When the team and the manager is doing well, his espoused opinion will superficially chime with the majority of supporters.

 

When the team and the manager are failing, however, his abject refusal to countenance any merit in criticism being made is painful. Rather than address the herd of elephants in the room, he will spend 4000 words (or it feels like) trying to attract everyone's attention to a hamster in a cage.

 

You still haven't answered my question. Explain how he is wrong. For the most part he doesn't even provide that much opinion, he presents facts. I haven't seen any articles where he starts of, 'I think' Facts are facts and they can't be subjective - they are always right no matter what.

 

The reason people agree with him when we are winning and do the opposite when we are losing is because most people are knee-jerkers who can't think for themselves. This is a fundamental issue with today's society. We are never taught to think for ourselves at school so we never learn. We are taught to do what we are told and when to do it. Most are swayed by what Sky, papers, other knee-jerkers say. 'oh that's what they say, so I'll say it to cos it must be right'. They fail to check if they are indeed right or wrong, and for the most part they don't care. There are many theories to back it up. Bad news spreads much faster than good news, that's a fact.

[Jose M]

The reason people agree with him when we are winning and do the opposite when we are losing is because most people are knee-jerkers who can't think for themselves. They are swayed by what Sky, papers, other knee-jerkers say. 'oh that's what they say, so I'll say it to cos it must be right'.

 

Haha, yeah, that old chesnut. We're all just media brainwashed sheep who don't research the 'facts' (meaningless stats), which is ironic given jumped up tools like you just regurgitate the sickly apologist, obvious agenda driven claptrap from the likes of Paul 'I'm ill you know' Tompkins.

[Antynwa]

You still haven't answered my question. Explain how he is wrong. For the most part he doesn't even provide that much opinion, he presents facts. I haven't seen any articles where he starts of, 'I think' Facts are facts and they can't be subjective - they are always right no matter what.

 

The reason people agree with him when we are winning and do the opposite when we are losing is because most people are knee-jerkers who can't think for themselves. They are swayed by what Sky, papers, other knee-jerkers say. 'oh that's what they say, so I'll say it to cos it must be right'. They fail to check if they are indeed right or wrong, and for the most part they don't care. There are many theories to back it up. Bad news spreads much faster than good news, that's a fact.

 

You know what, lets just stop there.

 

Tomkins works for Liverpool Football Club, his opinion is about as relevant as well as partial as Nick Griffin's when it comes to immigration in Britain. Contrary to what you may believe Tomkins is not good journalist, yes he uses facts, but half of them are twisted and only in one favor. He's extremely biased and wouldn't criticise Benitez if he signed us up to the BNP.

 

I mean his facts usually revolve around 'Shankly lost to Everton' 'It took Ferguson 6 years...etc etc' He is quite possibly the biggest apologist I have read. People who usually read Tomkins and agree with the, usually use the excuse like you just have, basically dumbing down the critical supporrt. I don't need Andy Gray to tell me how bad we are doing, I can see that for myself.

 

Do you know what Gary Macca said the other day v City? He basically said it's time for Rafa to deliver. Now who would I rather listen to, Tomkins or Gary Macca?

 

I am not doubting there are some people on TV who do twist facts, but please don't insult other fans, who question Benitez regardless of what anyone says. Over the past few weeks we have had people debating the 'Rafa Issue', both for and against King Kenny, Thommo, Gary Macca and Ronnie Whelan for example. It proves to me, and it should prove to many people that there is a genuine split of opinion and it's bigger than what many people would like to believe. Tomkins refuses to accept this, and you end up with people whipping out their penis and going 'Look how indepdent I am of thought'.

 

I don't need Tomkins to tell me how good things are, nor do I need Andy Gray to tell me how bad things are, I can see for myself the situation we are in and I'm almost certain the next Tomkins article will include the line 'Ferguson got knocked out of the CL too'.

[stringvest]

You still haven't answered my question. Explain how he is wrong. For the most part he doesn't even provide that much opinion, he presents facts. I haven't seen any articles where he starts of, 'I think' Facts are facts and they can't be subjective - they are always right no matter what.

 

The reason people agree with him when we are winning and do the opposite when we are losing is because most people are knee-jerkers who can't think for themselves. This is a fundamental issue with today's society. We are never taught to think for ourselves at school so we never learn. We are taught to do what we are told and when to do it. Most are swayed by what Sky, papers, other knee-jerkers say. 'oh that's what they say, so I'll say it to cos it must be right'. They fail to check if they are indeed right or wrong, and for the most part they don't care. There are many theories to back it up. Bad news spreads much faster than good news, that's a fact.

 

I haven't got the time or the interest to trawl through his stuff, but a cursory review of his articles against the context of your own understanding of the game and the evidence of your eyes should be enough. To follow your point though, if we all believed everything we read, and we all read Tomkins' articles, we'd all be persuaded that all of our problems are down to injuries and bad refereeing decisions. It's just not true. A lot of our problems are due to the lack of confidence, motivation and determination shown by those who actually get on to the pitch, not to mention the persistent selection of substandard players, and tactics which are confusing players and supporters alike.

[Liverbnz]

You know what, lets just stop there.

 

Tomkins works for Liverpool Football Club, his opinion is about as relevant as well as partial as Nick Griffin's when it comes to immigration in Britain. Contrary to what you may believe Tomkins is not good journalist, yes he uses facts, but half of them are twisted and only in one favor. He's extremely biased and wouldn't criticise Benitez if he signed us up to the BNP.

 

I mean his facts usually revolve around 'Shankly lost to Everton' 'It took Ferguson 6 years...etc etc' He is quite possibly the biggest apologist I have read. People who usually read Tomkins and agree with the, usually use the excuse like you just have, basically dumbing down the critical supporrt. I don't need Andy Gray to tell me how bad we are doing, I can see that for myself.

 

Do you know what Gary Macca said the other day v City? He basically said it's time for Rafa to deliver. Now who would I rather listen to, Tomkins or Gary Macca?

 

I am not doubting there are some people on TV who do twist facts, but please don't insult other fans, who question Benitez regardless of what anyone says. Over the past few weeks we have had people debating the 'Rafa Issue', both for and against King Kenny, Thommo, Gary Macca and Ronnie Whelan for example. It proves to me, and it should prove to many people that there is a genuine split of opinion and it's bigger than what many people would like to believe. Tomkins refuses to accept this, and you end up with people whipping out their penis and going 'Look how indepdent I am of thought'.

 

I don't need Tomkins to tell me how good things are, nor do I need Andy Gray to tell me how bad things are, I can see for myself the situation we are in and I'm almost certain the next Tomkins article will include the line 'Ferguson got knocked out of the CL too'.

 

Look mate - I ain't saying that Tomkins is a God of jounalism and neither do I enjoy references to United or Fergie. What he does have is perspective which a lot of people don't. Neither does Tomkins work for LFC - he gives an article to the website usually once a week that is then usually heavily edited by those who work on the website - edits he doesn't really agree with. He gets a nominal fee. He doesn't advertise outside his website, he doesn't go on TV, he doesn't give interviews to papers (1 maybe recently that was minimal). So he aint on some sort of pwer trip or neither does he force his stuff on others.

 

Gary Mac - I like him quite a bit, but what has he done in management to be able to have valid opinions on Rafa? Same with Ronnie Whelan and Souness. Why is it time to deliver for Rafa?

 

We are at our worst point in history, finacially (relatively compared to our main rivals and others - City, Spurs, etc). We finished with 86 pts last season - 4 off the top. The club should have been investing. Instead we sold Keane, Alonso, Leto, Arbeloa et al for around 60m, not to mention Hyypia leaving, and only reinvested less than 40m of that back into the team. How do you expect a manager to improve with that? Our net spend for the last years is zero. Again how are we suppose to improve? Added to that injuries, the shambles in defence and poor form of other more senior memebers are not just excuses for our poor form, but vaild reasons for our extremely poor start of this season.

 

I apologise if my posts seem like I talking from on high, because I am certainly not above any other Liverpool fan and nor am I intending to come across that way. I am only trying to put perspective on things not knee-jerking to certain conclusions without any real basis of fact. A lot of people do that, and I don't need to tell you that do I?

[Antynwa]

Look mate - I ain't saying that Tomkins is a God of jounalism and neither do I enjoy references to United or Fergie. What he does have is perspective which a lot of people don't. Neither does Tomkins work for LFC - he gives an article to the website usually once a week that is then usually heavily edited by those who work on the website - edits he doesn't really agree with. He gets a nominal fee. He doesn't advertise outside his website, he doesn't go on TV, he doesn't give interviews to papers (1 maybe recently that was minimal). So he aint on some sort of pwer trip or neither does he force his stuff on others.

 

Gary Mac - I like him quite a bit, but what has he done in management to be able to have valid opinions on Rafa? Same with Ronnie Whelan and Souness. Why is it time to deliver for Rafa?

 

We are at our worst point in history, finacially (relatively compared to our main rivals and others - City, Spurs, etc). We finished with 86 pts last season - 4 off the top. The club should have been investing. Instead we sold Keane, Alonso, Leto, Arbeloa et al for around 60m, not to mention Hyypia leaving, and only reinvested less than 40m of that back into the team. How do you expect a manager to improve with that? Our net spend for the last years is zero. Again how are we suppose to improve? Added to that injuries, the shambles in defence and poor form of other more senior memebers are not just excuses for our poor form, but vaild reasons for our extremely poor start of this season.

 

I apologise if my posts seem like I talking from on high, because I am certainly not above any other Liverpool fan and nor am I intending to come across that way. I am only trying to put perspective on things not knee-jerking to certain conclusions without any real basis of fact. A lot of people do that, and I don't need to tell you that do I?

 

Net Spend has never been used as a defence past, present or indeed future for any manager. It's a stupid arguement with doesn't take into consideration bargins or over priced duds.

 

Secondly, we spent £27 Million on Keane and Dossena and got no return whatsoever forget the fact that we didn't invest more money into the squad. Remember how much we have actually spent, and who it has been spent on.

 

Babel £11 Million

Dossena £7 Million

Keane £20 Million

 

Not to forget the fact we have spunked £20 Million on a player Rafa is scared to play, as well as we have spent £18 Million on our defence and look worse. We lost Alonso because Rafa didn't get on with him.

 

Rafa is making awful tactical decisions, and some questionable substituions. We are playing some awful football. As well as the fact we are paying poor players incredible amounts of money and we can't offload them!

 

You don't get from being 2nd in the league, to going out of the CL and out of the league race in November the following year without their being something wrong. I know about the problems the owners are, however Rafa has been here 5 years, not 5 minutes.

 

It's not good enough

[Liverpool lad]

I don't buy into this you need to be as qualified as Rafa to have an opinion nonsense, otherwise there would be very few people able to give their verdict, and Paul Tomkins isn't one of them.

[hamstrung]

 

He's bringing sexy back.

[Liverbnz]

Net Spend has never been used as a defence past, present or indeed future for any manager. It's a stupid arguement with doesn't take into consideration bargins or over priced duds.

 

Secondly, we spent £27 Million on Keane and Dossena and got no return whatsoever forget the fact that we didn't invest more money into the squad. Remember how much we have actually spent, and who it has been spent on.

 

Babel £11 Million

Dossena £7 Million

Keane £20 Million

 

Not to forget the fact we have spunked £20 Million on a player Rafa is scared to play, as well as we have spent £18 Million on our defence and look worse. We lost Alonso because Rafa didn't get on with him.

 

Rafa is making awful tactical decisions, and some questionable substituions. We are playing some awful football. As well as the fact we are paying poor players incredible amounts of money and we can't offload them!

 

You don't get from being 2nd in the league, to going out of the CL and out of the league race in November the following year without their being something wrong. I know about the problems the owners are, however Rafa has been here 5 years, not 5 minutes.

 

It's not good enough

 

1) We did get money back from Keane and could theoretically get it all back so wrong on that pint.

 

2) A manager could be at a club for a million years - if he isn;t funded like his main rivals he is at a major disadvantage.

 

3) Rafa has of course made poor signing, so has everyone else - the only difference being our main rivals, can replace the rubbish immediately with another 20m-30m signing, whereas we can't.

 

4) Rafa making awful tacitical decisions? I'm sorry but what the fuck do you know about tactics? Are you a professional on this matter? Decisions our always fraught with risk in football, some more than others. YOu get some wrong you get some right.

 

5) Net spend isn;t an arguement? So you expect a team to improve whilst others are spending millions more on transfers how exactly? Fucking magic dust or something. Improvements are made with many factors. Money is key, if Liverpool don't invest they will go backwards.

[goatboy59]

 

He's bringing sexy back.

Yurrrp.

[zigackly]

Net Spend has never been used as a defence past, present or indeed future for any manager.

 

That's bollocks, people used to bang on about Houllier's net spend all the time.

[Antynwa]

1) We did get money back from Keane and could theoretically get it all back so wrong on that pint.

 

2) A manager could be at a club for a million years - if he isn;t funded like his main rivals he is at a major disadvantage.

 

3) Rafa has of course made poor signing, so has everyone else - the only difference being our main rivals, can replace the rubbish immediately with another 20m-30m signing, whereas we can't.

 

4) Rafa making awful tacitical decisions? I'm sorry but what the fuck do you know about tactics? Are you a professional on this matter? Decisions our always fraught with risk in football, some more than others. YOu get some wrong you get some right.

 

5) Net spend isn;t an arguement? So you expect a team to improve whilst others are spending millions more on transfers how exactly? Fucking magic dust or something. Improvements are made with many factors. Money is key, if Liverpool don't invest they will go backwards.

 

1. He shouldn't have been here in the first place

 

2. He is funded, he's been here 5 years. Who did he buy in the summer who did he spunk £27 Million on last year

 

3. So Benitez would be immune from spending money on rubbish?

 

4. You're right, lets close this forum down

 

5. It isn't an arguement, when on earth have you heard net spend as an arguement used to defend anyone else.

[Ted]

Tomkins is a joke. And not a very good one.

[goatboy59]

As someone who's done a bit of writing in his time I've never (previously!) wanted to criticise someone else because I know what a pain in the arse it is to try and regularly come up with something different.

 

But I think that's where Paul ironically goes wrong; it's never different, why read it because you pretty much know what it's going to say.

 

The length doesn't bother me; if you read a lot and you're interested in the Reds that shouldn't be such an obstacle.

 

Perversely I admire the will, the sheer bollocks involved in never deviating from his path. You see the Rafa camps on here thrown in the odd "of course he's made mistakes" or "of course he's done some very good things" in that slightly smarmy used-car-salesman "you can trust me ;)" sort of way.

 

No such crap from Tomkins. Absolutely, utterly convinced of his rightness, he sees no need for such trickery and just says here it is. He can't be oblivious to the things people say about him, but there hasn't been one second of detour, u-turn or doubt.

 

And when Rafa gets the push he'll be exactly the same with whoever comes in!

 

Part scary, part laughable, part frustrating - but I have to say part laudable too.

[Liverbnz]

1. He shouldn't have been here in the first place

 

2. He is funded, he's been here 5 years. Who did he buy in the summer who did he spunk £27 Million on last year

 

3. So Benitez would be immune from spending money on rubbish?

 

4. You're right, lets close this forum down

 

5. It isn't an arguement, when on earth have you heard net spend as an arguement used to defend anyone else.

 

1. I agree, but that's a matter of opinon but your original point was still bollox.

 

2. I fucking know he has been funded - my point is that it is less so that Spurs, City, Chelsea and United. Squad worth 70% of Uniteds and 55% of Chelsea. Hardly a level paltying field now is it? If you can point out one manager that has won a League whilst as poorly funded comparitively as Rafa then bully for you. You won't though so don;t waste your time. Better of lower your fucking expectancy.

 

3. Stop fucking twisting my words - I said everyone does it. Rafa clearly has less scope for it as he has less fucking money. No one is bloody perfect, you can't get them all right, especially when you have to shop at 3/4 levels below your rivals at times.

 

4. Again twisting my words to suit your arguement. Are you incapable of having a debate? If your such a fucking genius with tactics then how would you deal with all the injuries? Beach ball at Sunderland? Keystone Kops at the back? I suppose you still think we lack creativity despite that us scoring at an extremely healthy rate in the PL but leaking like an old tap? Let me know though please what you have done to become such a tactical genius, or even let us know a few things you 'know' about tactics.

 

5. What anyone else has to do with I don't know. How many other clubs have to trade up to where they get? If you don't invest you aren't going to improve enough, that is a fact.

[Kevin D]

Unbeaten in four, probably doesn't see what the fuss is about.

[Code]

When Pennant signed Tomkins wrote a long article (stating the obvious I know) about how great he would be and how perfectly he would fit into our team.

 

Pennant: Paying the Penance

 

I raised several doubts over this of course based on loads of "facts" mixed with a reasonable understanding of the game.

 

I`m sure you would be there defending Tomkins just like now, for all I know you were as well.

 

Since then his articles have got longer and longer and I have lost more and more interest in them, to be honest I cant motivate myself to even give them a go these days.

 

It all went downhill for Tomkins when he stopped contributing on message boards when he started to get a bit of stick for what he wrote.

 

I actually found it interesting to discuss with him at the time, but at the time he did spread his thoughts out ove several posts and not these hour long monologs he is doing now.

 

My advice for him would be o get back on the discussion boards and not hide because he cant take criticism, when he does this I might start to read his pieces again.