Lyon vs. Liverpool 04/11/09

[Carra_is_legend]

Just tell me, why the fuck did we buy Kyrgiakos?

 

What does he give us that the kids can't?

 

You really don't have to spend to the last penny, Rafa.

 

I don't know how fit Agger was tonight but he did the job of 2 defenders tonight.

[Code]

Lost for words really.

 

Our defence is a fuckin shambles and our midfield must be the least creative in Europe.

 

God help us.

[Iantn]

Just tell me, why the fuck did we buy Kyrgiakos?

 

What does he give us that the kids can't?

 

I don't think any of the kids are ready yet, and Ayala's nervous displays this season convinced me of this.

 

Don't get me wrong, Sparta shouldn't be in a red shirt too often but at that sorta money I doubt we could have got better.

[zico]

Why does it have to be like this? Why can't we be critical without people automatically assuming that we want the manager sacked?

 

I don't want him sacked at all. But I felt he was too conservative in the second half and I was disappointed that he didn't push harder for the win. We don't have to agree at all. But please don't jump to conclusions because it makes it hard to have any sort of discussion if you believe there's a hidden agenda behind every post.

 

I was referring to all the bashing Rafa takes for taking Torres of, he was no more than 60% all game, it made sense to bring fresh legs on.......

 

I don´t mind people discussing tactics and disagreeing with the manager at all, but it has to make sense, which I don´t think the criticism of the Torres substitution does....

 

Also Red Nick´s go at Insua I find ridiculous......

[ratcatcher]

I dont buy that, fulham saturday, yes. tonight, no, not with 5 minutes left.

 

Im not asking anyone to buy it. Im just stating my opinion as I see it.

[Brownie]

That was an absolute killer that equaliser. Up until then I was pleasantly surprised with the performance, even though I was convinced we'd win before the game. I thought it would be a scrappy win but we totally bossed it.

 

How much of that was down to our good play I don't know because they were absolutely awful. How did we lose to them at Anfield?

 

Anyone looking at that game in isolation would say we were unlucky but in reality we only have ourselves to blame for the wretched games against Fiorentina and Lyon at Anfield. We're not unlucky to be where we are in the group, it's happened for a reason.

 

There were a couple of things I was unhappy about tonight which I was totally prepared to ignore at 1-0 but those nagging doubts are exposed even more when the result is as damaging as tonights.

 

I thought taking Torres off for the sake of 5 minutes was just pathetic. He looked tired, but 5 minutes!! It was just pointless.

 

I also couldn't understand why Aquilani didn't come on. I've seen some people say that he must still be ill, but if that's the case then he should have stayed at Melwood and not travelled. If he was there for emergencies only then surely he'd have come on because at 0-0 we were absolutely DESPERATE for a goal!

 

There was just no logic there for me in that situation.

 

As for the performances, I thought Lucas was outstanding. He wasn't too extravagant with his passing but some of them were incisive and he was really solid in the tackle; well done. Mascherano was equally as good. Carra did well at right back.

 

The negatives were the Greek (who is blatantly not good enough for me) and Voronin who just had me laughing at one point, he's that bad. Everyone knows that I really hate Voronin and tonight showed why. I was dying for Mascherano to fucking punch him when they had that disagreement on the first half; good on you Maschy, nice to see the players realise he's a lazy twat as well.

 

Kuyt was piss poor again as well and needs dropping but it don't happen. He probably ran about 13 miles during the game so job done, no doubt.

 

Just another horrible night to be a Liverpool fan.

 

The thought of the Uefa Cup sickens me. Thursday night matches and memories of Houllier.

 

I think i'll have nightmares tonight.

[jsjazz]

OK, unless we miraculously get all our injured players back VERY soon or Lyon pull off a miracle in Italy the tow big ones are out of reach.

What I would like to see is bugger this attacking lark, lets go back to keeping clean sheets. I don't care if we get 10 0-0 draws, I want to see the defence looking solid again. I'm fed up with conceding soft goals every game, not being able to grind out 1-0 wins. We've scored in all but three games this season I think, but conceded almost every game so we're having to score 2 or 3 goals every game to get a win. The other "big four" can grind out 1-0 or 0-0 when playing badly, and so could we until this season.

There are some obvious reasons for this- injuries to centre backs, new attacking right back who is now injured, new young inexperienced left back etc. Until the defence gels, I think we have to go back to basics i.e. defending and keeping clean sheets.

[Rustyjeffears]

Taking Torres off was the right choice as there was no point risking him once we had the goal.

 

What Rafa should have done though is put an extra defender on or aquilani for 5 minutes to close the game out. The second goal would have been handy but the 3 points was gold dust.

[Sandman]

I was referring to all the bashing Rafa takes for taking Torres of, he was no more than 60% all game, it made sense to bring fresh legs on.......

 

I don´t mind people discussing tactics and disagreeing with the manager at all, but it has to make sense, which I don´t think the criticism of the Torres substitution does....

 

I feel the swap for N'gog was a mistake. I have no issue with Torres being subbed out at 85, I was surprised he lasted that long to be honest. I would have preferred a swap that bolstered our defence, as it was obvious that we had no intention of pressing for a second.

 

Having said all that though, we could have brought on Ayala and they still may have scored. Who knows?

[jsjazz]

I was dying for Mascherano to fucking punch him when they had that disagreement on the first half; good on you Maschy, nice to see the players realise he's a lazy twat as well.

 

Kuyt was piss poor again as well and needs dropping but it don't happen. He probably ran about 13 miles during the game so job done, no doubt.

 

Don't agree Voronin was lazy; he ran around but just isn't good enough (pace or ability- he seems to have half a brain but the body just doesn't seem to be able to do what he wants).

I love Dirk but his control and passing have been poor for a number of games now. I guess when he's one of the senior players we expect more from him, whereas when the team is playing well his deficits can be overlooked.

 

Miserable night, I agree.

Off to bed.

[The Midnight Rambler]

This will probably go down like a shit sandwhich but.. I thought the Greek did ok for 70 minutes, infact.. I think he had a good game - for 70 minutes. It was only his second game in a Liverpool shirt and he hasn't played much football this season. Give the greek a break.

[Carra_is_legend]

I don't think any of the kids are ready yet, and Ayala's nervous displays this season convinced me of this.

 

Don't get me wrong, Sparta shouldn't be in a red shirt too often but at that sorta money I doubt we could have got better.

 

If we don't have enough money to buy what we want, DON'T FUCKING BUY ANYONE.

 

Whether it is £2m or £20m, we only have to buy the players we fucking NEED. Buying an useless Greek is not going to improve us.

[Tyler Durden]

Im not asking anyone to buy it. Im just stating my opinion as I see it.

 

Ok

[Torvald Utne]

is that the first draw of the season?

[Bogman]

That was an absolute killer that equaliser. Up until then I was pleasantly surprised with the performance, even though I was convinced we'd win before the game. I thought it would be a scrappy win but we totally bossed it.

 

How much of that was down to our good play I don't know because they were absolutely awful. How did we lose to them at Anfield?

 

Anyone looking at that game in isolation would say we were unlucky but in reality we only have ourselves to blame for the wretched games against Fiorentina and Lyon at Anfield. We're not unlucky to be where we are in the group, it's happened for a reason.

 

There were a couple of things I was unhappy about tonight which I was totally prepared to ignore at 1-0 but those nagging doubts are exposed even more when the result is as damaging as tonights.

 

I thought taking Torres off for the sake of 5 minutes was just pathetic. He looked tired, but 5 minutes!! It was just pointless.

 

I also couldn't understand why Aquilani didn't come on. I've seen some people say that he must still be ill, but if that's the case then he should have stayed at Melwood and not travelled. If he was there for emergencies only then surely he'd have come on because at 0-0 we were absolutely DESPERATE for a goal!

 

There was just no logic there for me in that situation.

 

As for the performances, I thought Lucas was outstanding. He wasn't too extravagant with his passing but some of them were incisive and he was really solid in the tackle; well done. Mascherano was equally as good. Carra did well at right back.

 

The negatives were the Greek (who is blatantly not good enough for me) and Voronin who just had me laughing at one point, he's that bad. Everyone knows that I really hate Voronin and tonight showed why. I was dying for Mascherano to fucking punch him when they had that disagreement on the first half; good on you Maschy, nice to see the players realise he's a lazy twat as well.

 

Kuyt was piss poor again as well and needs dropping but it don't happen. He probably ran about 13 miles during the game so job done, no doubt.

 

Just another horrible night to be a Liverpool fan.

 

The thought of the Uefa Cup sickens me. Thursday night matches and memories of Houllier.

 

I think i'll have nightmares tonight.

 

 

 

It's hard mate.

 

Does he leave Nando on for 5 minute, or seeing as he isn't fully fit and he can pull something in those last few minutes.........tough one to make. Leave him on, would it have stopped the goal?

 

Put Aqualini on, and replaced whom?

Masch, Lucas, The Jew?

Hard to call, we were doing well, so why change?

 

I run a saturday side, so I can understand both sides. It ain't quite that black and white.

 

Yeah, and we all know the Greek ain't good enough, but look who the manager has to deal with.

 

I blame the players, not tonight, as they've given a good reaction, but on previous games.

[Manny]

Good point about the previous shitty performances. That kind of application against Fiorentina from a better side would have seen us come back with at least a point.

[Iantn]

If we don't have enough money to buy what we want, DON'T FUCKING BUY ANYONE.

 

Whether it is £2m or £20m, we only have to buy the players we fucking NEED. Buying an useless Greek is not going to improve us.

 

Possibley true but in Rafa's eyes we NEEDED a centre half an he was the best we could get.

 

To be fair if he took the attitude of the above we'd have had virtually no players brought in during most of his time here.

 

Given the likes of Ayala aren't gonna play the games we've already played it's hard to judge but the manager obviously felt he, and the rest, were less upto it than the Greek. And it has taken 3 injuries to the back line to bring him in.

[Carlos Durninio]

Rafa conducted himself with great dignity post match. He's a class act, pity his tactics are turgid.

 

Lets face it, the damage was done against Lyon at home, and that was the night we went out.

[05 Milan]

This will probably go down like a shit sandwhich but.. I thought the Greek did ok for 70 minutes, infact.. I think he had a good game - for 70 minutes. It was only his second game in a Liverpool shirt and he hasn't played much football this season. Give the greek a break.

 

He always has at least a couple of huge clangers every game. I was just waiting for him to fuck up TBH. He makes Pellegrino look like Big Sami.

[23_Carra_Gold]

If we don't have enough money to buy what we want, DON'T FUCKING BUY ANYONE.

 

Whether it is £2m or £20m, we only have to buy the players we fucking NEED. Buying an useless Greek is not going to improve us.

 

So we don't have the Greek, who plays centre half tonight?

 

Mavinga?

[Brownie]

It's hard mate.

 

Does he leave Nando on for 5 minute, or seeing as he isn't fully fit and he can pull something in those last few minutes.........tough one to make. Leave him on, would it have stopped the goal?

 

Put Aqualini on, and replaced whom?

Masch, Lucas, The Jew?

Hard to call, we were doing well, so why change?

 

I run a saturday side, so I can understand both sides. It ain't quite that black and white.

 

Yeah, and we all know the Greek ain't good enough, but look who the manager has to deal with.

 

I blame the players, not tonight, as they've given a good reaction, but on previous games.

 

Personally I would have brought Aquilani on for Voronin.

 

a) it would have allowed him to play behind Torres and would have meant he had to do a lot less running than if playing cente midfield; good news after you've been ill.

 

b) He's meant to be a creative player so that position could suit him.

 

I'd then have bought Babel on for Kuyt who had an absolute stinker. Again.

 

Rafa has a blind spot for Kuyt though.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

Brownie, I'd bring me on for Voronin.

[Manny]

Personally I would have brought Aquilani on for Voronin.

 

a) it would have allowed him to play behind Torres and would have meant he had to do a lot less running than if playing cente midfield; good news after you've been ill.

 

b) He's meant to be a creative player so that position could suit him.

 

I'd then have bought Babel on for Kuyt who had an absolute stinker. Again.

 

Rafa has a blind spot for Kuyt though.

 

Kuyt was shite tonight, definitely. It was a good effort for the goal, but he did nothing else, and on nights like this with other senior players out, he needs to step up to the plate.

[Carradona]

My heart sank for Rafa tonight.

 

Not just because of the 10 odd pints I had today.

 

We played well. If we had won 3-0 today, no one would have complained.

 

When Babel scored that goal, I thought we were Ok. Concentration lapse at the back, one chance for them, Lopez took it.

 

Rafa man, nothing is going your way right now. Hold on, things may change. I hated you for what you did on Saturday but today, we did OK. We were not spectacular but neither was Lyon.

 

I'm sure we are out of CL for this season as I don't think Lyon will beat Fiorentina but I would absolutely fucking hate it if Rafa left Liverpool after a CL result. The man who gave so much to us in this competition. Fucking irony isn't?

 

I still remember the result against Madrid at Anfield and Barnabue. Rafa man, whatever happens to you, you can hold your head up high because you have been truly majestic in this competition.

I agree with everything there.

We werent robbed. Unless you can say we were 'robbed of the ball'. We werent unlucky either if you continue to defend shite you will get punished.

 

You're joking, right?

 

How were we not robbed? We had the best chances and should have been at least one goal up.

 

Defending shite? Agger was a rock tonight and the only mistake before the goal I can remember was the Kyrgiakos header that led to a Reina save.

[Iantn]

Rafa has a blind spot for Kuyt though.

 

Yet his withdrawl at the weekend was seen as an admission of defeat and someone who was looking at Europe.