Rafa- it's time to go

[Barrington Womble]

The reality is they will sell Gerrard & Torres and bring the debt down to 125M as the banks want which will give them another year to find a buyer at ther price and reduce the debt even more the following season because even at midtable and no players someone will pay 200m for the club.

 

if it was that easy to come up with someone willing to pay 200m for the club, why did we only have these cunts and DIC at the table in 2007 when market conditions where much more favourable for such a sale?

 

selling torres and gerrard would kill the club, i would be surprised if we'd survive relegation if that happened. it's not just the impact of losing those to players to the team, it's the impact on the entire morale and the message it sends out of "we've given up". If it comes to that, they won't get £100m for the club and we'd slide deeper and deeper into debt. Personally I think RBS would probably pull the plug on them before that was allowed to happen, because they're the ones who are going to lose money if we go pop, not Hicks and Gillett.

[Barrington Womble]

If defeat in Lyon becomes a reality and ends our Champions league chances, will Rafa walk.I know if he does walk, his compensation package goes out the window but as he loves the club so much, maybe for the good of the club he will go himself.........

If thats the case, I'd love the King back in charge, for any lenght of time.

 

I cannot imagine any point where Benitez would walk because of results. Certainly not if we lose this week, we'd need to lose another 8 in 16 for that to happen.

[The Chef]

I cannot imagine any point where Benitez would walk because of results. Certainly not if we lose this week, we'd need to lose another 8 in 16 for that to happen.

 

Unless the fans turn against then, IMO he would have no choice

[2pak]

No, it was not a fucking good trade off.

 

Just because YOU rate the CL more than the PL doesn't make it a good fucking trade off.

 

Not only that but there is an assumption that had he not made those changes at Reading we would not have reached the CL semis. Similarly if we pull off a victory in Lyon it will likely be attributed by some to Torres and Benny coming off early on Sat but if we lose fingers will be pointed at Gerrard being injured.

 

Convoluted world I tell you.

[Catch22]

No, it was not a fucking good trade off.

 

Just because YOU rate the CL more than the PL doesn't make it a good fucking trade off.

 

 

Giving up nothing (our final PL position wouldn't have changed) for the chance of something positive is always a good trade.

 

Preferences don't come into it at all.

[Guest Slim(fast)Shady]

Think he needs to get the Lyon game out the way (which i think we'll win 0-1) and take a break.....feck off to Spain or whevever for a few weeks and leave sammy in charge..

 

Re-charge the batteries after all he is only human!

 

Also could be worse....we could support Hull!!

[Barrington Womble]

Unless the fans turn against then, IMO he would have no choice

 

I don't see that happening on the scale that would be enough for him to walk. The situation with the owners will for some (many in fact), make him blameless for everything. A quick look at this thread tells you that.

[Carra_is_legend]

Giving up nothing (our final PL position wouldn't have changed) for the chance of something positive is always a good trade.

 

Preferences don't come into it at all.

 

So, you are saying Rafa knew the final PL position when he gave the game up against Reading?

 

Perhaps you should phone him now and ask for the final league position for this season.

 

I never thought a Liverpool fan will agree with the manager for settling for a draw or defeat.

 

Are you Tomkins?

[Guest LFD]

Before the Man U game I was beginning to lose faith in Benitez. However after that performance and result I realised that we were not too far away from closing the gap (6 points at the time).... I thought I was too rash in criticising him.

 

Now after this disappointing result to Fulham, I am not going to fluctuate my opinion game by game, as to whether he stays or goes - he deserves better than that after what he's done for the club.

 

I still think we have to stick with him. We can't afford to pay him off if he's sacked. I can't think of many (if any) managers who can come in and do a better job, with the current owners at the club. He has done alot for this club, he loves it and is doing his all and I think we should stick with him and judge him at the end of the season.

 

I am not surprised we lost to Fulham, we had a team full of Degen, Voronin etc and were missing too many of our best players. A few wins in the league and everything will look far better and with Gerrard and Aquilani coming intio the side to enhance it we should improve.

 

Benitez has many faults, I don't think he's doing himself many favours at the moment and I am not going to defend him. However I do think we're best to stick with him at the present time.

[Carra_is_legend]

LFD, you do realise that 8 players from the United game also played against Fulham, right? You talk about Degen (who actually played well) and Voronin, conveniently ignoring the other 8 "first choice" players.

 

And you do realise that Fulham had their captain and main player missing, right?

[Guest LFD]

LFD, you do realise that 8 players from the United game also played against Fulham, right? You talk about Degen (who actually played well) and Voronin, conveniently ignoring the other 8 "first choice" players.

 

And you do realise that Fulham had their captain and main player missing, right?

 

I know all that.

 

But we have seen it over the years, we beat the top sides and then struggle in games like Fulham. Everyone could see it coming.

 

As I said I am not defending Rafa, as it is hard to defend him at the moment. However people who want rid of him need to serious think of who could do a better job under the circumstances and can we afford to get rid of him?!

[Catch22]

So, you are saying Rafa knew the final PL position when he gave the game up against Reading?

 

Perhaps you should phone him now and ask for the final league position for this season.

 

I never thought a Liverpool fan will agree with the manager for settling for a draw or defeat.

 

Are you Tomkins?

 

It was fairly obvious when we played that game where we were going to come.

 

We have played for draws away from home countless times in the old Division 1 where 2 pts for a win & a compettive league made it a good stragegy.

We have played for a draw or tight defeat countless times in Europe when we had the chance to bring them back to Anfield.

 

Perhaps you were complaining when we parked the bus at the Nou Camp in '01 or Turin in '05?

 

Context is everything.

 

If you have a vital CL game coming up, you take far less risks with your players in the less important preceeding league game.

 

Every single team & manager in Europe does this.

[Carra_is_legend]

It was fairly obvious when we played that game where we were going to come.

 

Really? At the end of October? Ok then.

 

We have played for draws away from home countless times in the old Division 1 where 2 pts for a win & a compettive league made it a good stragegy.

We have played for a draw or tight defeat countless times in Europe when we had the chance to bring them back to Anfield.

 

Perhaps you were complaining when we parked the bus at the Nou Camp in '01 or Turin in '05?

 

Context is everything.

 

If you have a vital CL game coming up, you take far less risks with your players in the less important preceeding league game.

 

Every single team & manager in Europe does this.

 

Are you comparing Nou Camp with Madjeski and Craven Cottage? Ok then.

[The Chef]

I don't see that happening on the scale that would be enough for him to walk. The situation with the owners will for some (many in fact), make him blameless for everything. A quick look at this thread tells you that.

 

Judging from all threads over last week, its probably 50/50

I think its time for a change, both manager and owners.Preferably Yanks out first and Rafa to follow providing things dont change.In sayin that, i do believe we will win in Lyon but it aint gonna change a lot..

[Red Nick]

if it was that easy to come up with someone willing to pay 200m for the club, why did we only have these cunts and DIC at the table in 2007 when market conditions where much more favourable for such a sale?

 

selling torres and gerrard would kill the club, i would be surprised if we'd survive relegation if that happened. it's not just the impact of losing those to players to the team, it's the impact on the entire morale and the message it sends out of "we've given up". If it comes to that, they won't get £100m for the club and we'd slide deeper and deeper into debt. Personally I think RBS would probably pull the plug on them before that was allowed to happen, because they're the ones who are going to lose money if we go pop, not Hicks and Gillett.

 

Were not going to go Pop or get relegated however in the scenario I painted we will become a nothing club like Everton & Spurs. Fortunately are brand name and income would see us through the short term. It would be a long slow death not a short one. The reallity is very clear RBS want the debt down to 125m next july they have 3 options

 

1 Refinance with another bank who would be happy to lend 200m

2 Find an investor to put money into it

3 Sell 100m worth of assets

 

Now ask yourself which is the most likely in that scenario.

[Red Nick]

Just like to add whilst Rafa is getting loads of stick the owners are very unlikely to sack hiim as it draws away attention from there destruction of our football club. They would only sack him if it became clear we couldnt finish in the top 4 with Rafa as manager and we are certainly nowhere near that point yet.

[WaltonRed]

According to the Mail its Purslow who gets to do the hiring and firing and not the two clowns.

[The Chef]

According to the Mail its Purslow who gets to do the hiring and firing and not the two clowns.

 

And he is their Bitch

[Johnni]

According to the Mail its Purslow who gets to do the hiring and firing and not the two clowns.

 

That bascially means the 2 Yanks are hiding behind the door while Purslow does the firing then gives Purslow the thumbs up and a condescending pat on the back.

[zico]

Some people need to get a grip:

 

Ok, I was livid when he subbed Torres and Benayoun with us chasing the game, but to claim this was a terrible performance is simply stupid. We bossed the first half, and I doubt at any time this season will Fulham see so little of the ball at Craven Cottage as they did in the first half on Saturday......

 

Personally I think we overperformed last year, which has build unrealistic hopes in our supporters, especially considering the sale of such an important player as Alonso...

 

We will not fire Rafa for the following reasons:

 

1. We cannot affort to... Those 20-50 million it would take to buy him out are needed for debt repayments, and any leftovers are surely needed for players?

2. Who would come here? No money to spend, wafer thin squad and 2 C**t's owning the club holding it for ransome....

3. He will be the one to who brings us number 19, but it's a work in progress.. (if he were the manager of Chelsea, they would be unbeatable)

 

I backed him when he got his new contract and I stand by him now, even if he infuriates me at times (for example his stubborn view that Lucas is good enough for our first 11).... It's not like he has forgotten all that gave us number 5 in 2005 and 86 points in the league last season?

 

I he had the cash he had been promised in the summer and had gotten Silva, we would probably be looking at a very different picture right now...

 

Hopefully he get's rid of the deadwook in the squad; Babel, Voronin, Kuyt (could stay as a squad player), Greek fella who I never want to see get another game for us, Lucas (would be a decent squad player) and add more quality as well....

 

We are at least £50 - 150 mill behind Scum, Chavs and even Spurs in terms of assets in our squad, and when our Net spending is even less than minnows such as Sunderland and Fulham we don't win league titles.......

 

Now we need to get behind the team once more and get a result in France....

[Roy Hobbs]

Two years ago no-one in the club would listen to him. They didn't answer his calls, read his emails.

 

He now meets with Purslow every day, he knows the score IMO and he's been consulted on what to do about it and he's doing the best he can with what he's got.

 

I agree with this. I would go as far as to say contracutally Rafa can't diss the owners. Thats the price he paid to take control of the club. Since the they have fucked him over and he cant say shit. :whoops:

 

Well he can and one day he probably will.:yes:

[Guest LFD]

Some people need to get a grip:

 

Ok, I was livid when he subbed Torres and Benayoun with us chasing the game, but to claim this was a terrible performance is simply stupid. We bossed the first half, and I doubt at any time this season will Fulham see so little of the ball at Craven Cottage as they did in the first half on Saturday......

 

Personally I think we overperformed last year, which has build unrealistic hopes in our supporters, especially considering the sale of such an important player as Alonso...

 

We will not fire Rafa for the following reasons:

 

1. We cannot affort to... Those 20-50 million it would take to buy him out are needed for debt repayments, and any leftovers are surely needed for players?

2. Who would come here? No money to spend, wafer thin squad and 2 C**t's owning the club holding it for ransome....

3. He will be the one to who brings us number 19, but it's a work in progress.. (if he were the manager of Chelsea, they would be unbeatable)

 

I backed him when he got his new contract and I stand by him now, even if he infuriates me at times (for example his stubborn view that Lucas is good enough for our first 11).... It's not like he has forgotten all that gave us number 5 in 2005 and 86 points in the league last season?

 

I he had the cash he had been promised in the summer and had gotten Silva, we would probably be looking at a very different picture right now...

 

Hopefully he get's rid of the deadwook in the squad; Babel, Voronin, Kuyt (could stay as a squad player), Greek fella who I never want to see get another game for us, Lucas (would be a decent squad player) and add more quality as well....

 

We are at least £50 - 150 mill behind Scum, Chavs and even Spurs in terms of assets in our squad, and when our Net spending is even less than minnows such as Sunderland and Fulham we don't win league titles.......

 

Now we need to get behind the team once more and get a result in France....

 

Good post.

[Roy Hobbs]

Why do you want Benitez out as much as the owners?

 

Do you think he's as damaging to the club?

 

That seems crazy to me.

 

The owners don't give a fuck and Rafa does.

 

Rafa should never be compared to those two chancers. Ever.:(

 

If things go bad and Rafa has to leave us, it will not be a good day for the club regardless of where you sit on the Rafa debate.

[WaltonRed]

Zico, good post but its full of wrongness.

[Roy Hobbs]

Zico, good post but its full of wrongness.

 

Theres a lot more rightness than wrongness but i suppose it depends how full your glass is.