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I think Rafa has proved, so far, that his big money buys are usually spot-on but he has also proved that most of his cheaper 'gambles' are just not good enough for the Premiership - never-mind a team going for the title. With this in mind I'm sticking with him until hopefully, one day soon, we get owners with more cash for him to take less risks with.

 

Obviously, this might never happen but as others have pointed out getting rid now could possibly set us back years in terms of rebuilding, so lets see where we finish this season.

 

If we we got mega rich and he still didn't challenge I'd give up on him to.

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I think Rafa has proved, so far, that his big money buys are usually spot-on but he has also proved that most of his cheaper 'gambles' are just not good enough for the Premiership - never-mind a team going for the title. With this in mind I'm sticking with him until hopefully, one day soon, we get owners with more cash for him to take less risks with.

 

Keane - £20m; Babel £12m. His big money buys spot on?!! Ridiculous.

 

Next argument....

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I think Rafa has proved, so far, that his big money buys are usually spot-on but he has also proved that most of his cheaper 'gambles' are just not good enough for the Premiership - never-mind a team going for the title. With this in mind I'm sticking with him until hopefully, one day soon, we get owners with more cash for him to take less risks with.

 

Obviously, this might never happen but as others have pointed out getting rid now could possibly set us back years in terms of rebuilding, so lets see where we finish this season.

 

If we we got mega rich and he still didn't challenge I'd give up on him to.

 

Actually all he's proved is, like every manager, some signings work and some signings don't irrespective of price. He's no different to any other manager it's just highlighted more when you're struggling.

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I think Rafa has proved, so far, that his big money buys are usually spot-on but he has also proved that most of his cheaper 'gambles' are just not good enough for the Premiership - never-mind a team going for the title. With this in mind I'm sticking with him until hopefully, one day soon, we get owners with more cash for him to take less risks with.

 

Obviously, this might never happen but as others have pointed out getting rid now could possibly set us back years in terms of rebuilding, so lets see where we finish this season.

 

If we we got mega rich and he still didn't challenge I'd give up on him to.

 

Yes he's usually spot on with big money signings. He's better at signing them than Fergie and any manager that's arrived at Chelsea. It's the lower bracket players that he seems to struggle with though.

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Today is one of the worst performance by a manager I have ever seen. And for a Liverpool fan that is saying something.

 

Yeah, all those chances he missed, absolute sitters, poor in the tackle and never tracks back. WTF do you expect from him, his hands are tied with who he as available.

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Keane - £20m; Babel £12m. His big money buys spot on?!! Ridiculous.

 

Next argument....

 

 

Thats two in five years, compare to any Chelsea manager, and Fergie. Only Wenger has done better. The other clubs have won the title though, but they dont need every big money signing to hit the ground running...

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Top sides, and we still are, don't lose this many games in such a short space of time if the players still believe in their manager. I doubt any other than Kuyt would be that disapointed if he left, especially if someone of quality came in who knew how to treat them like people and not robots.

 

 

Torres does not look like a robot to me, mongo !

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Keane - £20m; Babel £12m. His big money buys spot on?!! Ridiculous.

 

Next argument....

 

Keane - fair enough but I think of Babel, even at 12M, as one of his cheaper gambles. Sad to say but I was thinking 15M+ as the big money buys - the ones that Fergie and Chelsea can afford more of.

 

We finish in the top 4 because we (before City) are still one of the top 4 richest clubs (forgetting the debt we can still spend more that Villa etc). There's only really Wenger who has shown how to still get to the title but even back then they were only chasing Utd but even Utd seem to have got richer with the stadium capacity and owners who haven't turned out so bad afterall. Currently money is dictating where the title goes.

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"When rafa signed his new contract, in order to gain control he tied himself Into an agreed budget spend. If he didn't think this budget was enough to be competitive then he shouldn't have signed it"

 

By signing it, he personally guaranteed himself £25m.

Even if he knew that the resources involved weren't enough, he would still have signed it.

 

Whether it is players that people like or managers that they don't football is their job & they behave accordingly.

which is fine. But then he has to accept the responsibilties that come with signing that contract and if he doesn't measure up he'd be out. I thought we shouldn't have given him the contract, but now we have he's taken us another step backwards.

 

So the much repeated question is "Who would you get in, who would improve things?"

 

I'd probably put kenny in charge until the end of the season when managers such as capello, hiddink or mourine may be available

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When a team loses it's the manager that takes the brunt, when a team wins it's the players.

 

Not true. If Benitez won the title he would be in an unassailable position, and you know it Cardie. Istanbul is seen as his triumph, not Didi's.

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Not true. If Benitez won the title he would be in an unassailable position, and you know it Cardie. Istanbul is seen as his triumph, not Didi's.

 

Spot on, Rafa (justifiably) got years of grace with Istanbul, it wasn't the players who got the credit for that (how many people still talk about Dudek?)

 

People still love Rafa, on some level I do too, but you can't let your head rule your heart. At the moment I still can't see past the ownership, so maybe this whole discussion is moot anyway, but I see the squad get weaker with each passing season - and people need to remember that the likes of Gerrard and Carra won't be there in a couple of years, or at best they'll be bit-part players. And with his transfer record, people have to ask themselves do they trust Rafa to replace them with quality.

 

I don't.

 

Having Kuyt as our only right wing outlet, and spending £19m on two left wingers - neither of whom can do a job - has been telling.

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If we sacked Rafa and his staff we couldn't afford to buy any players next summer.

 

So perhaps that'll force the owners to get the fuck out before their asset becomes as valuable as newcastle. We might actually

kill 3 birds with one stone.

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Which is bang on where our budget suggests we should finish & so should have been the starting basis for any sensible predicition of where we will (I stupidly tried to be a bit clever & had us coming 4th, which is a classic case of over-egging the pudding)

 

We have had a few years of over-achievement (spectacularly in the CL) but that cannot continue indefinetely, by definition.

 

This is ending now & suddenly the hysteria starts.

 

Point taken to a degree

 

However we do have two of the best players in the world and if we sold them and saved there wages our budget would still indicate we should finish 5th but we wouldnt IMO.

 

You have to look at the squad and the budget together and the squads your competing against and it that scenario I dont think its unreasonable to expect to challenge for 3rd.

 

When we lose Torres and Gerrard we will be performing below our budget

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So perhaps that'll force the owners to get the fuck out before their asset becomes as valuable as newcastle. We might actually

kill 3 birds with one stone.

 

The reality is they will sell Gerrard & Torres and bring the debt down to 125M as the banks want which will give them another year to find a buyer at ther price and reduce the debt even more the following season because even at midtable and no players someone will pay 200m for the club.

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I think Rafa has proved, so far, that his big money buys are usually spot-on but he has also proved that most of his cheaper 'gambles' are just not good enough for the Premiership - never-mind a team going for the title. With this in mind I'm sticking with him until hopefully, one day soon, we get owners with more cash for him to take less risks with.

 

Obviously, this might never happen but as others have pointed out getting rid now could possibly set us back years in terms of rebuilding, so lets see where we finish this season.

 

If we we got mega rich and he still didn't challenge I'd give up on him to.

 

If we got mega rich I think mosr fans on here would be able to buy two or three players who would give us a massive chance of winning the league because I dont think we are that far off...

 

its the squad that im worried about, but say we had £100 million to spend...

 

Villa, Silva, Ribery.... that would be all and we would piss it.

 

its that simple.

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The reality is they will sell Gerrard & Torres and bring the debt down to 125M as the banks want which will give them another year to find a buyer at ther price and reduce the debt even more the following season because even at midtable and no players someone will pay 200m for the club.

 

That what the Arabs paid for Man City.

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The reality is they will sell Gerrard & Torres and bring the debt down to 125M as the banks want which will give them another year to find a buyer at ther price and reduce the debt even more the following season because even at midtable and no players someone will pay 200m for the club.

 

The above is far from my idea of reality but even if it come true, how much profit would each owner make if they sold at £200m?

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That what the Arabs paid for Man City.

 

Exactly I was painting a worse case scenario for the Owners and when you think of the LFC brand name even if we were 15th in the league.

 

To answer Cmullers point they would probably walk out with 50m each plus what they have had from the club already, not bad work if you can get it.

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When rafa signed his new contract, in order to gain control he tied himself Into an agreed budget spend. If he didn't think this budget was enough to be competitive then he shouldn't have signed it. If he signed it knowing the funds would be insufficient, that's his problem, as he clearly put his desire for control before the long and short term interests of the club.

 

This is his team, his squad. The team has got worse for the last 3 transfer windows. The fringe players seem to be less committed than ever before. All of these things are the responsibility of nobody but the manager. He chooses who we buy and sell despite what spin he tries to use.

 

Our owners are a pair if cunts, but anyone who believes they are totally responsible for this inadaquate bunch of shithouse cunts wearing our shirt at the moment, you're kidding yourselves. People have to entertain the idea that it's possible that we've not only

got the wrong people owning the club, we also have the wrong person running the football operations.

 

Watching benitez yesterday he looks like a broken man who has no fucking idea what to do next. We've lost 8 matches before November. I can't imagine another club in a major league with aspirations of winning the league and European cup accepting this run of form, why should we? This manager should not be allowed to waste any more of our budget in January, he has to go before he takes this squad further backwards. Benitez has won his trophies using other peoples players, he clearly does not seem to be able to do the same with his own.

 

It's clear to me that some of our supporters no longer think we're a big club; certainly their expectations are not consistent with the idea.

 

As for sacking him, behave.

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which is fine. But then he has to accept the responsibilties that come with signing that contract and if he doesn't measure up he'd be out. I thought we shouldn't have given him the contract, but now we have he's taken us another step backwards.

 

 

 

I'd probably put kenny in charge until the end of the season when managers such as capello, hiddink or mourine may be available

 

If defeat in Lyon becomes a reality and ends our Champions league chances, will Rafa walk.I know if he does walk, his compensation package goes out the window but as he loves the club so much, maybe for the good of the club he will go himself.........

If thats the case, I'd love the King back in charge, for any lenght of time.

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my concern is that who can come in and really make a difference. also to the fact that we would have to give rafa a big pay of and then have a good salary to get a top replacement and we all know we havent got a fucking penny

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The last time he did it (at Reading) it made absolutely no difference to our final finishing position in the PL but helped us get all the way to a CL SF & 1 moment of madness from Riise away from the final...

 

That is a good trade-off.

 

No, it was not a fucking good trade off.

 

Just because YOU rate the CL more than the PL doesn't make it a good fucking trade off.

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