Rafa- it's time to go

[Juan Galonso]

Fair enough, you've nailed your colours. I disagree and also see the manager and ownersip issues as completely entwined.

 

I'm not privileged enough to be a recipient of half the insider stuff that seems to be common knowledge amongst many regulars on here, but I tend to adopt my views on what I see, and maybe that's why Rafa gets a bit of break from me, and why I can't seperate the ownership and management of the club.

 

Personally I can't stand Mourinho and believe he isn't stupid enough to set himself up for a fall by agreeing to take us on when he would have the financial handicap that is the Yanks in charge and the pathetic budget that comes with them.

 

The fact you haven't hounded me to the wolves for saying that does prove that two people can disagree about the fundamentals of whether the manager is suitable for the job or not and not get dragged into chaos.

[Unrighteous]

I've never had an issue with all that to be honest. Managers by their nature are going to be single minded men, I'd expect him to try and use any means at his disposal to get his own way. My problem with Rafa has always been about his tactics, his lack of ability to learn, he simply never learns even when it looks like he's made a tactical leap. But most damning of all has to be his transfer record, he's spent so fucking much money on players who are about as much use as the pope's balls.

 

People talk about injuries, but the fact our squad contains championship quality players who're incapable of doing anything other than sumply filling a space on a teamsheet is something he must answer for.

 

There are players in that squad who - when I hear they're playing - actually make my heart sink. And it's not just about quality, players like Mad Eric and Biscan weren't the best players in the world, but you at least thought "fuck it, this'll be interesting!" But with this 'second string', they're incapable even of a little randomness, or of even injecting some fun into proceedings, they're just bereft of anything, listless, hollow, shite players.

 

Yeah, I definitely agree that his inability to learn is ridiculous! We could have Rafa as a manager for the next 15 years and he would continue to make the same mistakes without acknowledging that he's made them.

 

... and yes, he's definitely signed some absolutely diabolical players.

[Vincent Vega]

That's fair comment, but surely people have a right to be concerned by our current run of form? When we've only mustered one genuine title challenge in five years, many people get a creeping sense that maybe last year was the exception and this season is returning to the rule.

 

I'm as concerned by our form as anyone and I'm not seeking to hide from it, but merely trying to be fair to Rafa and trying to deflect some of the more baseless criticism he has faced on this thread and from the general idiot in the pub. It's extremely easy to sit here and read post after post whinging about our general situation, but when so much of what is said is either groundless or unfair, I feel I have to respond.

 

If everyone just backed off, my betting is that we will get out of our CL group and end up finishing the season in the top four. We may win a cup, we might not, but that was pretty much my expectations before the season started, so hardly the end of the world.

[Red Nick]

Were minus 8 points down on the same fixtures last season if repeated throughout the season we will be 27 points down on last season giving us a points total of 69 and probably a 5th place finish

 

Reality bites

[Vincent Vega]

Were minus 8 points down on the same fixtures last season if repeated throughout the season we will be 27 points down on last season giving us a points total of 69 and probably a 5th place finish

 

Reality bites

 

Oh, just fuck off!

[Unrighteous]

Oh, just fuck off!

 

Why? People have been banging on about our second place finish last year in defense of Rafa.

 

That puts the previous post in context of the argument... We're projecting 27 points worse than last season.

[Red Nick]

Oh, just fuck off!

 

Reality Bites

 

Why cant people deal with realtiy and truth, its all out there for everyone to see.

 

Being told to fuck off for stating facts says it all really.

 

Some really sad people out there

[Count Morfeo]

Oh, just fuck off!

 

Poor form, old boy.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

There are players in that squad who - when I hear they're playing - actually make my heart sink. And it's not just about quality, players like Mad Eric and Biscan weren't the best players in the world, but you at least thought "fuck it, this'll be interesting!" But with this 'second string', they're incapable even of a little randomness, or of even injecting some fun into proceedings, they're just bereft of anything, listless, hollow, shite players.

 

Or maybe Rafa has taken the fun out of everything? Or maybe he only likes players that he can control or "yes men"?

 

You could actually level the same accusation at some of the first team.

 

If you harp back to our squad in 2005 and even 2006, we had several players who may have not been the most consistent in terms of quality performances, but when they did, they were special.

 

Someone like Lil Luis. I know he was frustrating as hell at times, but the moments of magic he used to produce were magical and made up for it.

 

Even someone like Bellamy, who was not the most likeable of characters, I loved his enthusiasm.

[Section_31]

You could actually level the same accusation at some of the first team.

 

If you harp back to our squad in 2005 and even 2006, we had several players who may have not been the most consistent in terms of quality performances, but when they did, they were special.

 

Even someone like Lil Luis. I know he was frustrating as hell at times, but the moments of magic he used to produce were magical and made up for it.

 

Even someone like Bellamy, who was not the most likeable of characters, I loved his enthusiasm.

 

I agree.

 

We've had players who could do a job, players I wasn't that fond of, but Bellamy, Baros, Crouch, Keane, at least had the potential to do some damage, fuck even Cisse did, and Luis like you mention, Finan, even Riise. Now there's just nothing underneath at all. As has been said by a few others, the squad gets weaker every year - not just in terms of quality - but in terms of leadership and character.

[Red Nick]

Poor form, old boy.

 

 

Just for you [YOUTUBE]rBYPxDGdi-w[/YOUTUBE]

 

Also if your missing your cape I saw about 20 guys wearing it tonight

[Vincent Vega]

Poor form, old boy.

 

I've tried to answer the doubters as eloquently as I can tonight, but then Mr Flip-Flop himself chips in and I lost it. Sorry Nick, but you are incredibly annoying and are not someone I want to debate with. I'll leave it at that tonight, because my bed is calling.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

I agree.

 

We've had players who could do a job, players I wasn't that fond of, but Bellamy, Baros, Crouch, Keane, at least had the potential to do some damage, fuck even Cisse did, and Luis like you mention, Finan, even Riise. Now there's just nothing underneath at all. As has been said by a few others, the squad gets weaker every year - not just in terms of quality - but in terms of leadership and character.

 

Can you imagine some of our current squad going down 3-0 to AC Milan?

 

Most would have fucked off at half time.

[Red Nick]

Just thinking about one of our better players Glen Johnson and just wondering if he regretted turning down a Pl Winners medal

[ThePositiveOne]

Wow, we lose a game and again the daggers are out....

 

shame the mancs and the arse dagger carriers did not get their way.....

 

if they had then maybe the mancs would not have caught us, and the arse would not be the force they are....

 

Rafa has us on course to retake our rightful place atop the pinnicle of football in the UK...

 

 

Relax....

[Red Nick]

And meantime back down on planet earth

 

Rafa wont be at the club next season whatever happens

[col06]

And meantime back down on planet earth

 

Rafa wont be at the club next season whatever happens

 

your like a dog with a bone at times :whatever:

[TheBitch]

Red Nick. . . . . . .

 

 

*Yawns*

[Redshadow]

Well, you can all bleat and shout and cry about how bad we are on here, how its Rafa's fault and how he should go all you like but I suggest you remember 3 things

 

1:) Scream 'he's got until summer, end of the season etc' or whenever to turn the season around all you like, until you're blue in the face as if it's an established fact that he DOES have that long - but it's NOT true, you have NO say on how long he has or has not got left however much ANY of you/us moan, do you really think that Rafa's bosses will A:) give a toss what we think? or B:) take ANY of our ideas in that area onboard? Thought not - no wonder you all sound so annoyed. Rafa's got as long as HIS bosses say, not us and there's NOTHING anyone can do about it.

 

2:) I think we should all remember that the current ridiculous run STARTED in, still CONCERNS and may (if we're lucky) END in the Champions League (started at Fiorentina) the whole of October has included the Fiorentina and Lyon games and the constant worry re qualification which IMO has fouled up our league tactics as well and therefore I think it's obvious that all the players withdrawn yesterday were withdrawn with the Lyon game in mind as I think it's QUITE clear now that the twin poison dwarfs from the US are somehow putting undue pressure/reminders on Rafa' re qualifying for the next stage as they are just DESPERATE for him to do so since if he doesn't, it may trigger the banks to scrap the refinancing and force them to sell and thus they may have told Rafa' it will mean his job if he can't prevent this.

 

3:) Those twin Yank cancers are the REAL reason Rafa' hasn't got anywhere this season as not only has half the first team (Gerrard, Torres, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Aurelio and Riera) carried injuries at one point or another but also now certain backup or replacement players like Kyrgiakos and Aquilani have suffered from constant injuries as well, so much so that it's resulted in Rafa's losing most of his first choice team for the past 3 months at one point or another AND half his backup squad players as well. No wonder we've struggled and those Yank b*stards have made NO money available at all to ease the situation (or explanations why not) and yet he's expected to challenge for the league in such circumstances? When his rivals can go out and buy a whole new TEAM almost should the same things happen to them?

 

And half of YOU our fans on here and in general haven't helped matters either as all we've/you've done is moan non-stop along with (egged on by and stupidly believing) the worst tabloid newspapers who ALWAYS say Rafa' spends loads of money and NEVER admit that he has to sell for everyone he buys - the ONE thing Rafa' CANNOT do and has NEVER been able to do since he came to LFC is work without ANY financial constraints and buy as he pleases with enough money to get WHO he wants, WHEN he wants and until he does - spout all the crap you like about him not matching Fergie, Moaninho and Wenger etc about how he's 'unproven' in the Prem' (I HATE that name) all you like and it'll be just that, infantile, pathetic rubbish - Why? Because NO-ONE has judged Rafa' by the RIGHT criteria yet as they don't exist - he CANNOT be judged properly as LFC manager until he has a club owner like Abramovich or access to money like Man U's and for a good couple of seasons to; THAT is what his rivals have access to in trying to win the league and that is what he damn well deserves a chance with as well - and I tell you what, if he DOES get access to such resources while still at Liverpool - THEN you'll see just WHY the papers fear him and Liverpool being together as the one thing they fear above all else is a NEW Liverpool Empire like the old one and they know damn well that given the right resources Rafa' WILL bring it about - Why do you think they snipe at him so much? Well,. I tell you IF Rafa' got the right resources, they'd be damn right to be worried as he'd do more than just redress the balance, he'd tilt it back our way for a Looooooong time to come and a long time coming that's been as well..........................................

Edited November 1, 2009 by Redshadow

[cmuller]

I have said numerous times on here I want him out of the club as much as I want the owners out. As Red Knight says putting them together muddies the waters.

 

I would want Mourinho here in a heartbeat if the chance arose.

 

Lets face it, the owners may be absolute parasites but I didn't like the way Rafa played politician over certain things and the Alonso thing will ALWAYS rankle with me.

 

The bit in bold - really?

 

Mourihno is realistic - why would he come here and put his reputation at risk? So who is realistic?

 

If a new manager comes in soon, he'll be hailed as a genius in the short term...everything that goes with our better players coming back to fitness and little to do with managerial changes. Then he'll face exactly the same problems as Rafa does now. So is there someone out there who can manage LFC's resources better - noone springs to my mind?

 

As people have put - will our star players see a change of manager as a window of opportunity to move themselves? Probably if we get someone the owners rashly appoint (even Kenny falls into this category of not being of sufficient standing in my opinion).

 

Rafa made mistakes yesterday - with his tactics as the sendings off happened, but there just isn't a better option at the moment.

[PaulMcC]

Why do you want Benitez out as much as the owners?

 

Do you think he's as damaging to the club?

 

That seems crazy to me.

 

The owners don't give a fuck and Rafa does.

[cmuller]

 

Should have been ....

 

 

Mourihno isn't realistic - why would he come here and put his reputation at risk? So who is realistic?

 

 

/

[Maniacworld]

Rafa has seen Real Madrid calling...end of

[Little Sammy]

Or maybe Rafa has taken the fun out of everything? Or maybe he only likes players that he can control or "yes men"?

 

You could actually level the same accusation at some of the first team.

 

If you harp back to our squad in 2005 and even 2006, we had several players who may have not been the most consistent in terms of quality performances, but when they did, they were special.

 

Someone like Lil Luis. I know he was frustrating as hell at times, but the moments of magic he used to produce were magical and made up for it.

 

Even someone like Bellamy, who was not the most likeable of characters, I loved his enthusiasm.

Bellamy must really be laughing at our predicament here. He was promptly told to fuck off by Rafa after one season and now look at the forwards we got instead of him. And don't give me that "we've got Torres" shite. Who else do we have? Look at the forwards of the rest of the top 8 teams and tell me that we've got a better forward line than them. Even Spurs have Crouch, Pavlyuchenko, Keane and Modric. All we have is Torres.

[llego]

Some really sad people out there

 

Now thats rich, you alcoholic old twat