Insua, Ability & Experience

[Bob]

I think Insua shows just how crucial the whole mental side of the game is in defenders. Give him Carra's judgement, timing, confidence, concentration, reading of the game and decision-making and you'd have a player; without those things, there's just a raw young lad who isn't very fast. Now clearly he needs to gain experience by playing in order to acquire those attributes, but he's in a situation where we can't afford lapses.

 

I hope things pan out for him, because I like his attitude. However, as soon as we can play someone reliable on the left of midfield, I expect Aurelio to drop back into the back four. To be honest, I think his more circumspect forays forward would give us a better balance in combination with Johnson's rampaging style, rather than being a limiting factor in our play. He also retains possession really, really well and that has been an issue for us this season.

 

Paul, everything you've said is right, but Insua is a young kid and Aurelio is a seasoned pro, it isnt a criticism of Insua that someone of Aurelio's class should be ahead of him when fit. He should, there's no doubt.

Very, very few defenders have those qualities you mentioned at an early stage of their career. Rob Jones is one i can think of, but for most, they improve those aspects over time, Carra certainly has.

[SpeedyG]

Paul, everything you've said is right, but Insua is a young kid and Aurelio is a seasoned pro, it isnt a criticism of Insua that someone of Aurelio's class should be ahead of him when fit. He should, there's no doubt.

Very, very few defenders have those qualities you mentioned at an early stage of their career. Rob Jones is one i can think of, but for most, they improve those aspects over time, Carra certainly has.

 

I remember Ashley Cole @ 22-23 being absolutely lambasted because he couldn't defend. Insua has a much better platform to build from than Cole had and he's not done bad.

[silverlining]

I remember Ashley Cole @ 22-23 being absolutely lambasted because he couldn't defend. Insua has a much better platform to build from than Cole had and he's not done bad.

 

*belm*

 

The fucking point is, you can learn how to defend better.

You can't teach someone pace if you haven't got any.

[SpeedyG]

I think Insua shows just how crucial the whole mental side of the game is in defenders. Give him Carra's judgement, timing, confidence, concentration, reading of the game and decision-making and you'd have a player; without those things, there's just a raw young lad who isn't very fast. Now clearly he needs to gain experience by playing in order to acquire those attributes, but he's in a situation where we can't afford lapses.

 

I hope things pan out for him, because I like his attitude. However, as soon as we can play someone reliable on the left of midfield, I expect Aurelio to drop back into the back four. To be honest, I think his more circumspect forays forward would give us a better balance in combination with Johnson's rampaging style, rather than being a limiting factor in our play. He also retains possession really, really well and that has been an issue for us this season.

 

So let's add a bit of perspective to correct for the experience gap. How would you compare Carra playing in that same position at that same age? If Insua improved to the same extent, how good do you think that would make him given where he is now? Can you see any reason why he wouldn't improve along similar lines?

[SpeedyG]

*belm*

 

The fucking point is, you can learn how to defend better.

You can't teach someone pace if you haven't got any.

 

The fastest players are forwards ergo defenders are always going to come up against players faster than them. They need to learn to deal with it, you need to setup your team to accommodate. It's not rocket science.

[The Woolster]

*belm*

 

The fucking point is, you can learn how to defend better.

You can't teach someone pace if you haven't got any.

 

You can teach/coach someone to be faster than they already are though, and surely part of learning how to defend better would also inlcude how to defend against pace through better positioning and reading of the game.

[silverlining]

The fastest players are forwards ergo defenders are always going to come up against players faster than them. They need to learn to deal with it, you need to setup your team to accommodate. It's not rocket science.

 

Name me a top-class full-back who has no pace.

[SpeedyG]

Name me a top-class full-back who has no pace.

 

Steve Finnan. Alvaro Arbeloa.

[silverlining]

Steve Finnan. Alvaro Arbeloa.

 

I agree with one of them, but would argue that Inusa is even slower than Steve Finnan, despite being 13 years younger.

[SpeedyG]

I agree with one of them, but would argue that Inusa is even slower than Steve Finnan, despite being 13 years younger.

 

I'd argue he wasn't, but the point still stands, it's possible to compensate.

[jackofdk]

Insua has been quite good this season despite what the Forum Conventional Wisdom currently is.

 

Like most of the defense he has had his lapses, but he has been no worse than any of them bar Johnson (and maybe Agger).

 

He is a very talented player who is already making a name for himself in a huge club and at a legendary national side. And with age on his side, he is only going to get better.

[zigackly]

Insua has been quite good this season despite what the Forum Conventional Wisdom currently is.

 

Like most of the defense he has had his lapses, but he has been no worse than any of them bar Johnson (and maybe Agger).

 

He is a very talented player who is already making a name for himself in a huge club and at a legendary national side. And with age on his side, he is only going to get better.

 

Rational observation won't get you far on here: he's the new scapegoat, let it go.

[Carra_is_legend]

Insua has been quite good this season despite what the Forum Conventional Wisdom currently is.

 

Like most of the defense he has had his lapses, but he has been no worse than any of them bar Johnson (and maybe Agger).

 

He is a very talented player who is already making a name for himself in a huge club and at a legendary national side. And with age on his side, he is only going to get better.

 

Spot on that. Let us not forget he is still only 20 years old and he played against Valencia, who is very quick and had scored 2 goals in his last two games for the scum.

[Zurbaran]

For all the stick hes getting, Insua who is as we know just 20. Didn't make as many mistakes in the whole game as Evra, "the best", and one of the fastest left backs in the world did in ten minutes.

[Red Nick]

Insua has been quite good this season despite what the Forum Conventional Wisdom currently is.

 

Like most of the defense he has had his lapses, but he has been no worse than any of them bar Johnson (and maybe Agger).

He is a very talented player who is already making a name for himself in a huge club and at a legendary national side. And with age on his side, he is only going to get better.

 

All very rational but a team going for the title cant afford to carry passengers and thats what he is.

 

He's an accident waiting to happen who will cost us points at vital times

[Herp McDerp]

Fuck off Nick, his form may be a little patchy at the moment, doesn't make him a passenger.

[Red Nick]

Fuck off Nick, his form may be a little patchy at the moment, doesn't make him a passenger.[/quote

 

Aurellio gave him good protection but when Valencia got at him he looked what he is a decent LB but not one that should be starting for a top 4 side.

 

We wont win anything if he plays LB for the rest of the season IMO.

 

I would thought it was clear for everyone to see that he isnt the real deal.

[Zurbaran]

I would thought it was clear for everyone to see that he isnt the real deal.

 

Haha, I'm new here so don't really know the place that well. Do you tell the jokes around here?

[Torvald Utne]

Haha, I'm new here so don't really know the place that well. Do you tell the jokes around here?

 

so are you momo or phily?

[Paul]

So let's add a bit of perspective to correct for the experience gap. How would you compare Carra playing in that same position at that same age? If Insua improved to the same extent, how good do you think that would make him given where he is now? Can you see any reason why he wouldn't improve along similar lines?

 

I can't specifically pinpoint Carra as a 22 year old (or whatever Insua is). What I do know is that Carra, even when he was getting groaned at at Anfield, was always solid - always - whereas Insua isn't, unfortunately.

 

I'm going to dip out of this now because it's starting to become one of those embarrassingly polarised debates where the player concerned gets increasingly described as either a world beater or a Sunday League player depending on which side of the argument you happen to be sitting. I like his attitude and aggression, but I think he's slow and a poor defender. I sincerely hope he comes good, but I don't see it unless he's given a lot of time.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think he's currently good enough to justify such time. His performance against Sidney Govou last week was a horror show for which I had front row seats and I think the lad has got an awful lot of improving to do to become Liverpool quality.

[SpeedyG]

I can't specifically pinpoint Carra as a 22 year old (or whatever Insua is). What I do know is that Carra, even when he was getting groaned at at Anfield, was always solid - always - whereas Insua isn't, unfortunately.

 

I'm going to dip out of this now because it's starting to become one of those embarrassingly polarised debates where the player concerned gets increasingly described as either a world beater or a Sunday League player depending on which side of the argument you happen to be sitting. I like his attitude and aggression, but I think he's slow and a poor defender. I sincerely hope he comes good, but I don't see it unless he's given a lot of time.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think he's currently good enough to justify such time. His performance against Sidney Govou last week was a horror show for which I had front row seats and I think the lad has got an awful lot of improving to do to become Liverpool quality.

 

To be fair since you solicited people's opinions, Brendan aside, I haven't seen anyone posting an embarrassingly polarized opinion, I've seen a balanced perspective from almost everyone noting strengths and weaknesses.

[Paul]

To be fair since you solicited people's opinions, Brendan aside, I haven't seen anyone posting an embarrassingly polarized opinion, I've seen a balanced perspective from almost everyone noting strengths and weaknesses.

 

*Snatches SpeedyG's "Must have the last word" hat and puts it on*

 

I said, "starting to become". There is at least one "fuck off" and one use of the word "scapegoat" on the last page of this thread. To be fair.

 

*Chucks hat back*

[jackofdk]

I can't specifically pinpoint Carra as a 22 year old (or whatever Insua is). What I do know is that Carra, even when he was getting groaned at at Anfield, was always solid - always - whereas Insua isn't, unfortunately.

 

I'm going to dip out of this now because it's starting to become one of those embarrassingly polarised debates where the player concerned gets increasingly described as either a world beater or a Sunday League player depending on which side of the argument you happen to be sitting. I like his attitude and aggression, but I think he's slow and a poor defender. I sincerely hope he comes good, but I don't see it unless he's given a lot of time.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think he's currently good enough to justify such time. His performance against Sidney Govou last week was a horror show for which I had front row seats and I think the lad has got an awful lot of improving to do to become Liverpool quality.

 

First of all, Insua is 20 years old.

 

Secondly Govou is a very experienced top player who can give any left back a horrible time on his day. Insua had a bad day on top of that, but it is not even like he cost us the game anyway.

 

Actually apart from Insua being one of several of our lads guilty of ball watching on some of the set piece goals we've conceded, I can't think of any goal he has cost us. That's more than you can say about Carra, aged 31, this season.

 

Insua will be fine, and he is pretty close to solid already. Imagine how good he can be at 23.

[SpeedyG]

*Snatches SpeedyG's "Must have the last word" hat and puts it on*

 

I said, "starting to become". There is at least one "fuck off" and one use of the word "scapegoat" on the last page of this thread. To be fair.

 

*Chucks hat back*

 

And if those posts are the ones that resonate with you and you choose to focus on instead of the ones providing insight and context then well, your what seems to me a polarized opinion, is understandable.

 

*poos in hat and hands back*

[hamstrung]

And if those posts are the ones that resonate with you and you choose to focus on instead of the ones providing insight and context then well, your what seems to me a polarized opinion, is understandable.

 

You might want to read that back a few times and give it another bash.