Vaccines and our kids

[AVEEZ]

HPV vaccine for girls aged 12?? Anyone here with a girl that age looking at this..

 

 

My daughter is due to have it Thursday. I've weighed up pros and cons an said no.

 

My head says anything preventing any form of cancer is great... but my heart says if a doctor cant answer your questions adequetly then fuck off.. mini me is my sole responsibility and way way to precious to risk on public health propoganda....

 

Its days like these when having sole responsibility for your child weighs heavily on your heart!!!

[Guest ShoePiss]

what are the risks? The reason for the age bracket is to try and catch them before they start having sex...

[She Knows It]

I'd agree with you completely. I don't understand why they have to give it at 12. It's a relatively new vaccine and we still don't know if there are any long-term side effects. Why not leave it until they've at least gone through puberty and are sexually active? Till that point there's no chance of them contracting HPV, and although some 12 year olds are, the majority aren't.

 

I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm a strong supporter of MMR, but it pisses me off the way health professionals treat us like we're imbeciles and blatantly only give you the positive spin without making you aware of the whole picture. It leaves parents in a position where they can't make a reasoned judgement.

 

My daughter had her pre-school boosters last year and they vaccinate against measles, mumps, rubella, Hib meningitis, diptheria, tetanus, polio and whooping cough in one sitting. I said I was concerned about the effect of this many antibodies at once on her immune system, and said she could have MMR/Hib and I'd bring her back in a couple of weeks for the rest. They treated me like the world's most neurotic bitch.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I'd agree with you completely. I don't understand why they have to give it at 12. It's a relatively new vaccine and we still don't know if there are any long-term side effects. Why not leave it until they've at least gone through puberty and are sexually active? Till that point there's no chance of them contracting HPV, and although some 12 year olds are, the majority aren't.

 

I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm a strong supporter of MMR, but it pisses me off the way health professionals treat us like we're imbeciles and blatantly only give you the positive spin without making you aware of the whole picture. It leaves parents in a position where they can't make a reasoned judgement.

 

My daughter had her pre-school boosters last year and they vaccinate against measles, mumps, rubella, Hib meningitis, diptheria, tetanus, polio and whooping cough in one sitting. I said I was concerned about the effect of this many antibodies at once on her immune system, and said she could have MMR/Hib and I'd bring her back in a couple of weeks for the rest. They treated me like the world's most neurotic bitch.

 

wait until they're sexually active?

[melons]

I'm abusing my kids, my eldest is 14 and hasn't had her BCG yet. They've never at any point been up to date on any of their vaccinations and if i was stupid enough to get pregnant again i still harbour that mind set.

 

I'm not keen, i hate vaccinations and really struggle with the way we are force fed the line of 'its for your own good' The good for the masses isnt always good for the individual.

[She Knows It]

wait until they're sexually active?

 

Almost sexually active. I'd say 16 at least. I was put on the pill at 13 for heavy periods. I'd never even kissed a boy. Now I've got an excrutiating gynaelogical disorder and was told when I was 29 I needed a hysterectomy (which I keep putting off). My specialist practically admitted that it was caused by my body being exposed to ridiculous levels of hormones while it was still developing.

 

These kids are still growing and forming. We don't know what damage these things can do. Until we know, they should be erring on the side of caution.

[odris]

Almost sexually active. I'd say 16 at least. I was put on the pill at 13 for heavy periods. I'd never even kissed a boy. Now I've got an excrutiating gynaelogical disorder and was told when I was 29 I needed a hysterectomy (which I keep putting off). My specialist practically admitted that it was caused by my body being exposed to ridiculous levels of hormones while it was still developing.

 

These kids are still growing and forming. We don't know what damage these things can do. Until we know, they should be erring on the side of caution.

 

Good way to cut loose your male admirers, go Liz!

[Guest ShoePiss]

Almost sexually active. I'd say 16 at least. I was put on the pill at 13 for heavy periods. I'd never even kissed a boy. Now I've got an excrutiating gynaelogical disorder and was told when I was 29 I needed a hysterectomy (which I keep putting off). My specialist practically admitted that it was caused by my body being exposed to ridiculous levels of hormones while it was still developing.

 

These kids are still growing and forming. We don't know what damage these things can do. Until we know, they should be erring on the side of caution.

 

Still developing at 16 aren't they? Well some are some aren't...which is the same with them having sex. It almost seems that part of the problem is coming to the realisation that your child is close to or is having sex.

[Jose Jones]

Dear worrying mothers,

Hi! I’m a free-lance scientist.

You should have no worries about the cervical cancer vaccine being foisted on your young daughters as a public health matter, as the transmission of HPV is a bit different from infections such as measles, where it is the population vaccination that helps provide the protection. So by all means feel no stress about waiting a few years until you feel you (or your daughter) are ready. However it is a preventative measure so is intended for use pre-sexual activity (it also won’t mess with hormones or anything like that). If you make sure your young’un uses condoms (sorry, I know, 12, ugh) this is a good way to prevent HPV, and always has regular pap smears to detect the early stages of cervical cancer.

On the other side, cervical cancer I think is the second most common form of cancer in females, and treatment once you’ve got it usually involves a hysterectomy. Then you’re looking at a survival rate of about 75%. Obviously the early detected the better (hence pap smears).

[RedinSweden]

This is an interesting article

 

The HPV Vaccine Controversy

 

I haven't spoken to Mrs RiS about this and she is the expert on this sort of thing, but if it was up to me, i would definitely be waiting.

[She Knows It]

Still developing at 16 aren't they? Well some are some aren't...which is the same with them having sex. It almost seems that part of the problem is coming to the realisation that your child is close to or is having sex.

 

I think medical experts are of the opinion that females are still developing until around the age of 18, and males till 20. The brain is still developing until later, about 25. Just because a girl has started their periods doesn't mean she's fully developed. I started my periods at 12, but didn't grow hair under my arms until I was 21.

 

I'd disagree completely. For me personally, this issue has nothing to do with sex. My concerns over my 4 year old daughter receiving 8 innoculations at once had nothing to do with sex. My worries over the impending swine flu jab have nothing to do with sex. It's to do with the government's reluctance to admit these vaccines do cause problems, albeit in a very small minority which leaves you not believing anything they tell you on the subject. Parents need all the facts, both positive and negative in order for them to make an informed decision.

[RedinSweden]

I think medical experts are of the opinion that females are still developing until around the age of 18, and males till 20. The brain is still developing until later, about 25. Just because a girl has started their periods doesn't mean she's fully developed. I started my periods at 12, but didn't grow hair under my arms until I was 21.

 

I'd disagree completely. For me personally, this issue has nothing to do with sex. My concerns over my 4 year old daughter receiving 8 innoculations at once had nothing to do with sex. My worries over the impending swine flu jab have nothing to do with sex. It's to do with the government's reluctance to admit these vaccines do cause problems, albeit in a very small minority which leaves you not believing anything they tell you on the subject. Parents need all the facts, both positive and negative in order for them to make an informed decision.

 

Yep. I agree. The same for the triple vaccine. i want to make that decision myself, not have it foisted on me by someone who can quite easily have an agenda far removed from the wellbeing of my child.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I think medical experts are of the opinion that females are still developing until around the age of 18, and males till 20. The brain is still developing until later, about 25. Just because a girl has started their periods doesn't mean she's fully developed. I started my periods at 12, but didn't grow hair under my arms until I was 21.

 

I'd disagree completely. For me personally, this issue has nothing to do with sex. My concerns over my 4 year old daughter receiving 8 innoculations at once had nothing to do with sex. My worries over the impending swine flu jab have nothing to do with sex. It's to do with the government's reluctance to admit these vaccines do cause problems, albeit in a very small minority which leaves you not believing anything they tell you on the subject. Parents need all the facts, both positive and negative in order for them to make an informed decision.

Well why would the others be about sex when they have nothing to do with it? Hpv is linked to sex..Anyway fair enough, I can certainly understand any parent wanting all the facts about any vaccine.

 

why would the government encourage this vaccine if it wasn't of benefit to the population? I can understand a doctor pushing something in USA due to the potential financial gain but in the uk?

[RedinSweden]

Well why would the others be about sex when they have nothing to do with it? Hpv is linked to sex..Anyway fair enough, I can certainly understand any parent wanting all the facts about any vaccine.

 

why would the government encourage this vaccine if it wasn't of benefit to the population? I can understand a doctor pushing something in USA due to the potential financial gain but in the uk?

 

You don't think there are lobbyists from pharmaceutical companies at work in Britain? Astonishing naivety there I'm afraid.

[Guest ShoePiss]

You don't think there are lobbyists from pharmaceutical companies at work in Britain? Astonishing naivety there I'm afraid.

 

How does the government gain from that?

[She Knows It]

Well why would the others be about sex when they have nothing to do with it? Hpv is linked to sex..Anyway fair enough, I can certainly understand any parent wanting all the facts about any vaccine.

 

why would the government encourage this vaccine if it wasn't of benefit to the population? I can understand a doctor pushing something in USA due to the potential financial gain but in the uk?

 

British GPs are paid a vaccination bonus for acheiving a 90% take up rate amongst their patients (In the case of DPT and MMR vaccines). Some GPs have even been known to strike off families who refuse vaccines so it doesn't affect their bonus.

[Guest ShoePiss]

British GPs are paid a vaccination bonus for acheiving a 90% take up rate amongst their patients (In the case of DPT and MMR vaccines). Some GPs have even been known to strike off families who refuse vaccines so it doesn't affect their bonus.

 

Very interesting and shocking

[RedinSweden]

How does the government gain from that?

 

I don't pretend to know the inner workings of these things, but you can be sure that given the fact that the NHS is the biggest customer of the pharmaceutical companies in the UK and we are talking gigantic amounts of money involved, the pharmaceutical companies will ensure that the government benefits from policies that they benefit from.

 

A quick search threw up this for example

 

Labour MP Stephen Ladyman uses inside track to strike deals - Times Online

 

Nifty bit of work

 

Former Labour ministers who have taken up jobs outside parliament 2003-8

 

Baroness Amos Travant Capital Partners, Titanium Resources Group

Hilary Armstrong MP GovNet Communications, SITA UK

Lord Bach Selex Sensors and Airborne Systems (now back in government)

David Blunkett MP Entrust (internet security), UC Group, A4e

Baroness Blackstone VT Group

Tony Blair JP Morgan, Zurich Financial Services

Lord Boyd Dundas and Wilson (legal firm)

Stephen Byers MP Consolidated Contractors Company, Yalta European Strategy, ACWA Services

Richard Caborn MP Nuclear Management Partners, Amec

Ivor Caplin MBDA

Charles Clarke MP KPMG, Charles Street Securities, Beachcroft

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting EFG bank

Lord Falconer AmicusHorizon Group, City Development Company for Newcastle and Gateshead

Lord Filkin NCP, Serco

Barry Gardiner MP Reynolds Partners

Lord Goldsmith Debevoise & Plimpton

Nigel Griffiths MP Jabbar Group

Baroness Hollis Pensions Advisory Service

Patricia Hewitt MPAlliance Boots, BT, Cinven

Adam Ingram MP SignPoint Secure, EDS, Argus Libya

Melanie Johnson Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry

Stephen Ladyman MP ITIS Holdings

Christopher Leslie New Local Government Network

Helen Liddell British Energy (now high commissioner in Australia)

Lord Macdonald Scottish Power, Macquarie Capital

Ian McCartney MP Fluor

Denis MacShane MP United Utilities

Alan Milburn MP PepsiCo, Covidien, Lloydspharmacy

Lord Moonie Partygaming, AEA Technology

Chris Pond Cape Claims Services

Nick Raynsford MP Rockpools, Hometrack

John Reid MP Celtic football club

Baroness Symons Rio Tinto, DLA Piper, Consolidated Contractors Company

Paddy Tipping MP North Nottinghamshire LIFT Company

Lord Truscott Gavin Anderson and Company, Gulf Keystone Petroleum, Eastern Petroleum Corporation

Lord Warner PA Consulting, Perot Systems Europe, Apax Partners Worldwide, Byotrol, DLA Piper

Lord Whitty Eaga, Elyo Suez (energy efficiency)

[AVEEZ]

But thats the point exactly - why would the government encourage a vaccination when they have no idea of the long term effects on the population?

 

This vaccine is being touted as a cervical cancer vaccination to the kids in our schools - this is wildley misleading. The vaccine may work for upto 6 years but they are not sure - this puts our kids in a huge amount of danger if they have it now aged 12 ...at an age when they are likely to be leaving home an more likely than every to experiment with more sexual partners the drug will no longer be effective.

 

The money this programme is costing would be better spent on a better sex ed programme in schools. Dealing not just with the how babies are born side of things but looking at sexually transmitted diseases, what they are what the effects can be and how to prevent them.

 

The governments answer in situations where they cant be bothered to educate the masses is to blind them into thinking that their intervention is in our best interests - the inference that they know better than us, when it comes to our children is frightening.

[AVEEZ]

My deepest sympathies are with the parents!

 

14-year-old schoolgirl dies after being given cervical cancer jab - Telegraph

[Markmywords]

Ladies, your plight has stengthened my relief that all my kids are boys.

 

I sympathise (and quietly celebrate).

[RedinSweden]

Ladies, your plight has stengthened my relief that all my kids are boys.

 

I sympathise (and quietly celebrate).

 

Oi!

[Strontium]

My deepest sympathies are with the parents!

 

14-year-old schoolgirl dies after being given cervical cancer jab - Telegraph

 

 

Ah, where would we be without the media and their logical fallacies - and it's post hoc ergo propter hoc too, one of my favourites.

[RedinSweden]

Ah, where would we be without the media and their logical fallacies - and it's post hoc ergo propter hoc too, one of my favourites.

 

It was the headmistress that said it was a result of the vaccine, not the media.

[Dirk]

It was the headmistress that said it was a result of the vaccine, not the media.

 

The teenager was one of four classmates who suffered side-effects at Blue Coat CofE School in Coventry after receiving the jab as part of the national immunisation programme.

 

They certainly reported it was a result of the vaccine in the opening paragraph. They clearly use the words "side-effects". The other three might have presented with phantom side effects after becoming anxious that their class mate had become ill. It could have been a result of the vaccine but nobody knows for certain at this stage.